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This free to play move is funny

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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#121 - 2016-11-18 14:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
How U win EvE?

--Confused Gadget played EvE pong...

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Sul Glass
Fat Dragon Mining Co.
Darwinism.
#122 - 2016-11-18 16:40:59 UTC
Damn you CCP , this alpha clone thing is terrible.

If I kill anyone who is less than a month old I send them a few miilion isk and message them to be more careful in low sec.

Ascension is costing me a fortune.

I would quit but as been pointed out I can't even do that anymore.

Welcome to the Hotel California.

Sul
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#123 - 2016-11-18 16:45:53 UTC
Suroh Kurvora wrote:
The gate camping and general griefing going on right now is massive and will serve to turn off new players it's pretty funny also the fact that you think having a free to play model that restricts options as heavily as yours does will work is mind boggling and no it won't encourage people to pay a subscription you may as well have just left it pay to play.


All you've managed to do as of now ccp is wreck our market and give the try hards a reason to log on during their non-prime time hours.

GG


you got not clue, everybody is loving this move, subscribers as well as people using alpha clones

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Tristan Valentina
Moira.
#124 - 2016-11-18 19:31:27 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
"Limited" doesn't necessarily mean useless. But limited they are. They cannot use T2 modules, T2 ships, a couple of core skills many consider essential, they cannot fly anything bigger than a cruiser (except for the gnosis), they have very little in terms of industry and trading skills, they cannot crosstrain - so yes, they are severely limited, and it would be ridiculous to say they aren't, regardless of what they will be able to do with their skillset.


Wise words right here.
I think that Alpha thing is very good to bring older players back, I'm just not convinced it will work with true newbies as well.
Eve has the reputation of being a pretty brutal and merciless game, where older players have such a massive advantage, that newbies will never catch up (I know it's mostly untrue, but that's what people who have never played it say).

T2 is pretty much standard for PVP- having newbies fly anything less puts them at a massive disadvantage right from the start (especially if they cannot use t2 ammo) and may reinforce the idea that it's impossible to catch up.
And please don't give me that "A good and experienced pilot can win with a worse ship"-crap: true newbies by definition are NOT experienced, which puts them even more at a disadvantage.

I like the idea that alphas are limited to only racial ships. But to get truly fresh blood into this old game, I would have suggested to simply limit them to frigs and dessies (no cruisers) T1 and T2, with every relevant skill and every module available (exception for cynos and cloaking devices, maybe even bomb launchers to prevent abuse). That way even a newbie could become competitive with older players in his own narrow niche, he will become more desirable for non-**** corps to recruit and will feel that he can really contribute to the game (especially if he flies dictors or inties for his corp).
If a newbie feels that he can achieve something and that he really matters, he is probably much more likely to stay and go for a full subscription.


Just going to quote all of this as I think there is a lot of good in it as well as a little that is not so good.

T2 is really not needed in frigate combat or dessie combat. Yes there are some amazing T2 fits but they normally exponentially increase the cost of the ship, for alphas this should be a huge detractor from using T2 fit ships. T1 guns on a thrasher are an excellent way to reduce cost and lose very little in performance. this is pretty much the same across all Dessie hulls. (My experience with amarr hulls in PVP is extremely low so if this changes as I assume it might based on T2 Crystals please correct me.)

Most of the time in PvP you actually want to be shooting Faction ammo not T2 ammo. Alphas can currently use faction ammo.

The lack of cross training is huge it is an insane handicap. Eve really is not balanced so that each race has comparable ships in anything more then name and basic function. I have been wondering lately if CCP thinks it is balanced that way with this thinking on alphas.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2016-11-18 19:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Well, T2 guns are quite important for some weapon systems, even for Frigates. How are you supposed to effectively scramkite a blaster boat without barrage? And kiting is the only thing most minmatar frigates can do well, as they would usually get ripped apart at point blank by about everything else. Same issue with scorch - I wouldn't want to fly a Slicer without Scorch. While you can substitute high-optimal T1 ammo, you will drop to laughable DPS. There are ways around this, though. Fly a breacher for example, instead of a Slasher or Rifter, but still - T2 guns are important for quite a few ships. That being said, though - I see why they didn't give Alphas T2 guns. If they did, a pilot specializing in FW Frigate PvP would have next to no incentive to ever subscribe.
Suroh Kurvora
Foxes and Kitties and Fun
#126 - 2016-11-18 19:47:42 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Suroh Kurvora wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
Suroh Kurvora wrote:
The gate camping and general griefing going on right now is massive and will serve to turn off new players it's pretty funny also the fact that you think having a free to play model that restricts options as heavily as yours does will work is mind boggling and no it won't encourage people to pay a subscription you may as well have just left it pay to play.


All you've managed to do as of now ccp is wreck our market and give the try hards a reason to log on during their non-prime time hours.

GG


I would argue that your jelly-legged mentality is also a factor.



I would argue that people like you have ruined not only the game but the world in its entirety because you fail to read more than one comment in a forum and assume you know exactly what's going on. Had you read my more recent posts including the ones directly above your own you'd note that not only do I support gate camping I partake in it.

This thread is not about that, this is about the failure of ccps free to play model, gate camping is just one of many examples I used which will act as a deterrent to new players that don't have access to anything above t1 cruisers (or fittings)

I also went a step further and talked briefly about t1 cruisers being able to defend against and or go on the offensive, it's naturally possible and quite easy if done correctly, but how many new people will understand that?

Naturally, at some point, they have to figure out some things for themselves and they will, but how many will leave before that actually happens?

I know, I know.. right now you're saying " Well we don't need them" or " Then they shouldn't here anyway" and countless other pointless comments that serve no purpose what so ever. The point here is that the "New and improved Trial account" is essentially useless in terms of bringing new blood into the game which is ccps goal.

They're a company, they need to make money.

Obligatory " Well free to play doesn't generate money lol you're stupid." comment...

It actually does when setup correctly and we see this in the majority of current mmorpgs as almost all of them have some sort of free to play model.

Insert irrelevant comment pertaining to 5 - 10 mmorpgs that don't have this model, so I can in turn link hundreds that do.


you take gatecamping away and you take away another form of income for pvp'ers/pirates, if you took that away then you will lose players who pay money directly to ccp (people who pay subs and buy plex with rl money), right now, i gatecamp to have fun and be social with my alliance, if i couldnt gatecamp then the game would just turn into a simple game of logging in for pings which id soon get bored of and play overwatch or some xbox one game.

are you going to remove wardeccers, code and every form of pvp to keep f2p players happy? who may never sub or buy a plex, they are called "free to play" for a reason and have restrictions for a reason. you start favouring that gameplay then you start losing customers who fund this game monthly over longterm.

also, ive killed a lot of new players on gatecamps and have sent them 10x the amount of isk they have lost along with advice on how to avoid in the future, only if they interact with me though. and i know a lot of others do the same, i think mining and missions are a killer of the game and the cancer tax haven/sh** ceos of highsec corps convincing new players that mining in highsec is the way forward and boring newbies to death till they quit.

Dont crap on other peoples playstyles, there is a clear notification popup as soon as someone tries to jump into lowsec that they can be killed, you dont get that notification with highsec corps exploiting newplayers to fund there own wallets.



I'm sorry but I don't understand why you're focused on gate camping I never once said it should be "removed" I have hjow ever stated multiple times that I fully support gate campers and am one myself, please actually read comments before making useless posts like this.
Lord Lanzo
THE AESIR.
#127 - 2016-11-18 20:11:27 UTC
10 year player just now restarting my alt account to get back to playing. I may or may not like Eve in its current state, but at least this is a nice way for me to try. I never left Eve because of Eve, I left because of the time commitment. This is a great way to get back. And if you think it's just easier for gate camping and grieving, then you obviously were never part of this game in it's prime.

Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#128 - 2016-11-18 20:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Lord Lanzo wrote:
10 year player just now restarting my alt account to get back to playing. I may or may not like Eve in its current state, but at least this is a nice way for me to try. I never left Eve because of Eve, I left because of the time commitment. This is a great way to get back. And if you think it's just easier for gate camping and grieving, then you obviously were never part of this game in it's prime.



--Gadget floats in Yulai, and pours one out for certain undead corporations.

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#129 - 2016-11-18 23:16:38 UTC
Suroh Kurvora wrote:
I'm sorry but I don't understand why you're focused on gate camping I never once said it should be "removed" I have hjow ever stated multiple times that I fully support gate campers and am one myself, please actually read comments before making useless posts like this.


Suroh Kurvora wrote:
The gate camping and general griefing going on right now is massive and will serve to turn off new players


Suroh Kurvora wrote:
This thread is not about that, this is about the failure of ccps free to play model, gate camping is just one of many examples I used which will act as a deterrent to new players that don't have access to anything above t1 cruisers (or fittings)


looks to me like you dont support gatecamping at all...you seem to assume a ship above a cruiser stands more of a chance against a gatecamp than a frigate. frigates can get out of camps easier than a cruiser, cruisers and above simply eat s**t and die

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
7BitBrian
Doomheim
#130 - 2016-11-18 23:20:38 UTC
As one of these new F2P players I want to know where all these gate camps are you're talking about like they're everywhere. I've seen one when I wandered into low security space curious, and from what I gather that is to be expected there. And it's definitely not turned me off to the game at all, I'm still having tons of fun and cant wait to get more involved.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#131 - 2016-11-18 23:33:14 UTC
7BitBrian wrote:
As one of these new F2P players I want to know where all these gate camps are you're talking about like they're everywhere. I've seen one when I wandered into low security space curious, and from what I gather that is to be expected there. And it's definitely not turned me off to the game at all, I'm still having tons of fun and cant wait to get more involved.


camps are usually in the main pipelines on highsec gates, Rancer, Amamake, Tama and a few other places in lowsec, null have them too but its not like they are on every gate in the game, they are also easy enough to avoid with a bit of awareness.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#132 - 2016-11-19 00:58:48 UTC
Herbert G Wells wrote:
I have to disagree with some of your points. I'm an old time EVE player, first played way back in 2004, started properly in 2005 and carried on that way until 2013. I took a break from then until now, mostly due to the fact that I couldn't afford to play any more. Over the years I tried, and sometimes succeeded, to get other people into the game. That proved incredibly difficult given the fact that the 2 week trial period was never long enough to give people a decent sense of the game and its community.

This new Alpha setup is, as far as I am concerned, a massive step in the right direction. I can now enjoy being part of the EVE universe again, though slightly limited, until such time as I can afford to sign up properly again, and it's given me a way to encourage those friends of mine who are careful with their money to try EVE out. I firmly believe that Alpha will have a fairly high conversion rate, and that will eventually prove to be the breath of fresh air this game needs.

Sure, things will be topsy turvy for a while, certain market segments will see price fluctuations, and there will be some natural die off from that, but overall I think it will still prove to be a net gain.


Dear Herbert, if the game needs a breath of fresh air, its not providing said game play for free that will provide value...
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2016-11-19 02:00:02 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:


Dear Herbert, if the game needs a breath of fresh air, its not providing said game play for free that will provide value...


The reason EVE had, for so long, such a strong community (and in some aspects still does) is because of player retention. The long people stick around, the better they get to know each other. So many games have terrible communities because of poor player retention. You get a bunch of new people coming into the game, a bunch of people leaving who were not long ago new themselves because the content has dried up, and as a result, no one gets to know each other. This is what I'm afraid of EVE becoming if this is CCP's only plan to grow the game, because if content dries up for the vets, the community will too, and nothing is more important for this game than the player community. For any other game, it doesn't matter so much. For this one though...

I've seen too many good vets bail because of any number of CCP's changes that have been little more than bandaids on a gushing wound, bleeding players at an uncomfortable rate. I've had friends leave because of some of CCP's **** decisions, friends who were my reason to continue playing this game. I don't even know what I'm doing back tbh, gonna give another month ago and see if I can get into it again, but CCP need to focus on player retention if they want to grow the strong community that really makes EVE great, and just making it free to play doesn't achieve that.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jotunspor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#134 - 2016-11-19 02:35:01 UTC
Just found out, ISD told everyone in chat; customizing window appearance is also limited to Omegas. I think about half the channel died of laughter. Myself included. Lol
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2016-11-19 02:48:50 UTC
Buhuhu my reverse griefed quitting vets bring back Erotica1

"You would not be the first "ganker aligned" player to be found to having some issues. Here's a dark secret: there are some in AG who, because of battling gankers, have managed to get to know a few of them, found they had issues, and helped them" HW
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2016-11-19 03:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
Buhuhu my reverse griefed quitting vets bring back Erotica1


Did you hit up a random word generator for that incoherent gibberish or did the word salad you ate for breakfast disagree with you?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jotunspor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#137 - 2016-11-19 04:45:34 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
Buhuhu my reverse griefed quitting vets bring back Erotica1


Did you hit up a random word generator for that incoherent gibberish or did the word salad you ate for breakfast disagree with you?



My guess: Instant DMT trip.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2016-11-19 10:12:55 UTC
Well, ho-ho-ho. I'm back and can't wait to get back to ship toasting on the forums.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#139 - 2016-11-19 19:50:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Jake Warbird wrote:
Well, ho-ho-ho. I'm back and can't wait to get back to ship toasting on the forums.


About time....Blink

Good to have you back, Mr. Warbird!

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2016-11-19 19:56:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde
Remiel Pollard wrote:


if content dries up for the vets, the community will too, and nothing is more important for this game than the player community. For any other game, it doesn't matter so much. For this one though...

I've seen too many good vets bail because of any number of CCP's changes that have been little more than bandaids on a gushing wound, bleeding players at an uncomfortable rate. I've had friends leave because of some of CCP's **** decisions


Buhuhu my reverse griefed quitting vets bring back Erotica1

-Sorry if it wasn't clear the first time!-

"You would not be the first "ganker aligned" player to be found to having some issues. Here's a dark secret: there are some in AG who, because of battling gankers, have managed to get to know a few of them, found they had issues, and helped them" HW