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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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New Tutorial Feedback/Comments

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Author
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#41 - 2016-11-27 00:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
There should be some explanation in the NPE about faction standings, and how doing security missions might cause some travel problems later.

Maybe have the first security mission outside the career missions give an explanation about the importance of faction standing and even suggest that declining a mission might be the preferred method of avoiding angering a given faction. Unfortunatly, explaining this early in the tutorial would just be forgotten.

In fact, the biggest problem with the tutorial is that it is all-at-once. So it quickly reaches the point of information overload for most people and they forget a lot of what they are told almost immediately.

It wouldn't hurt to have level 1 style missions all be made extra clear, not just warning about pitfalls but advising ways to recover from a mistake. It wouldn't hurt to revisit all the level 1 missions of and re-write them slipping tips and tricks into all of them.

Examples:
1. Send on mission to approach an object. Explain the basics of changing overview profiles so the object is visible.
2. On missions that are 2 or more jumps away, have a mini-description injected that explains warping directly to warpgates to warp faster.
3. On missions that are set to low-sec, explain the concept of pre-aligning for fast warpouts.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Ralph King-Griffin
The Romi Inquisition
#42 - 2016-11-27 00:50:13 UTC
Faction kill missions, really easy for a newbro to severely tank their standing with one or two of the Empires
without realising they're making themselves shoot-in-the-faceable to the facpo and
how much work in grinding they're setting themselves up for.
Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
#43 - 2016-11-30 08:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Wombat65Au Egdald
A minor bug in the NPE. New character, Amarr.

Inside the Pirate Den. NPE did not recognise that I was at the required location.

After docking for the first time, I undocked and used the tutorial prompt to warp to the pirate den. After I arrived, the prompt didn't progress because it didn't recognise that I was in the correct area. I was at the pirate den site, just not within whatever specific area triggers the NPE to progress, and there was no further prompting from Aura.

I saw a red pirate ship, so I blew it up, and all the other pirate ships that spawned after that, even though the NPE still had not progressed, it was still waiting for me to arrive at the location.

After popping all the pirate ships and flying around some more with no change to the NPE, I warped back to the station, then back to the pirate den site. This time whatever trigger was required worked and the NPE progressed to flying through the gas cloud and using the supplied repper. I flew through the cloud to the prompted object, took no damage (because the object that causes the ship damage wasn't a cloud, it was a targetable object, which I also popped the first time I was at the site).

End result: It's possible to warp to the pirate den site and destroy all hostile objects without the NPE progressing, causing the NPE to become stuck.

I realise I can get a GM to force the NPE to progress, but a new player could find this situation very frustrating.

Edit: I stayed in the pirate den site for a while and eventually more pirate ships spawned and allowed the NPE to progress, but only to the point of looting the resource crate, which I had looted earlier, and I can't put the minerals back into the crate to re-loot them. NPE is still stuck.

Edit 2: I docked up and used the "reset to last checkpoint" option for the NPE, then undocked again. The location the NPE prompted me to warp to only had a single wreck with no other objects or structures, but the tutorial was still showing a "warp to location" prompt. Using that sent me to a new site with a fresh set of pirates. One of them dropped a new resource crate that I was able to loot and progress the NPE.

So far, the NPE is fairly robust.
Nero Cat
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2016-12-01 20:27:18 UTC
The tutorial, don't seem bad, at least the 5 minutes I was able to do before breaking it.

How to break the tutorial:

1) loot the wrecks before it ask you to do that.
It never recognize that you already have the survivors on board and it don't trigger the next step.


2) try the rest button.
It will reset the space around you, deleting all the wrecks. Now you have nothing to interact with.

Poor nero will go into the biomass for a new alt with wick I will test the tutorial.

Calimero Crowmoor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2016-12-05 12:25:11 UTC
Newbie here, played i think 2 evenings so far and created 2 characters. Overall I like the initial tutorial but i faced few problems which led me to create another character

1) Assault on Hive (or whatever that mission is called), i got a brand new frigate and some usefull items to fit to it. I went to the Hive and almost completed the mission just to realize that my frigate was destroyed. I had to fly back to station in my capsule and try the mission again with my Corvette class ship -> impossible at least for a first timer.

2) Created a new character and this time to make sure i read all possible information about the Hive mission and first thing i noticed that I can actually fit 3 civilian gatling guns to it, with the defender module and repair module. This time the hive mission was a piece of cake, my frigate did not even take a scratch (except when the Hive actually blowed up).

3) Tutorial completed, i got a new mining ship and Aura asked me to go see the agents,. Sure, ok, i'll just try the new mining ship first. After a while, got back to my Ibis and heading to see the agents couple of jumps away, with autopiloting. Cool, i got there but I realized that my brand new mining ship is still at the first station and I have no idea where that station is located o_O

4) Carry on, i chose to follow the Explorer path if I could learn how to navigate in the systems and finally find my miner ship. Explorer tutorial is, how to say politely, Pain in the ass, for a newbie. First 2 mission are quite ok, just press "Set location" and autopilot. The next 3 parts of the tutorial was so annoying I had to stop playing more than once, only to try again few hours later to see if i missed something on the briefing.

5) Finally managed to struggle to the 5/5 part of the mission, which I have not yet completed. I had to google step by step instructions how to complete this tutorial with no luck, until I found a youtube video how to use probes. I am not quite convinced that I can finally complete Explorer tutorial, but I am going to try in later in the evening.

Overall i really like the atmosphere and look and feel of the game, but the learning curve seems to be very difficult
Miriam Beckstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2016-12-05 20:42:05 UTC
Calimero Crowmoor wrote:

5) Finally managed to struggle to the 5/5 part of the mission, which I have not yet completed. I had to google step by step instructions how to complete this tutorial with no luck, until I found a youtube video how to use probes. I am not quite convinced that I can finally complete Explorer tutorial, but I am going to try in later in the evening.

Overall i really like the atmosphere and look and feel of the game, but the learning curve seems to be very difficult


Scanning is one of those things that just makes sense to me. But having recently spent my month in the rookie help channel, I ended up regularly answering the questions about mission 1 'how do I open the cosmic overlay?' - 'it's badly worded, just hit alt-p'

And then mission 3, where you actually have to learn to probe.

I think there needs to be a FAQ in the mission instruction, or there needs to be a quick aura assisted step by step like there is in the initial NPE. It can be summarised pretty quickly.

Step 1 - warp somewhere (not actually needed, but stops having so many probes on people's overview at the undock.)
step 2 - hit alt-p / open probe scanner with a button
step 3 - launch pinpoint formation
step 4 - open solar system map
step 5/6/7 - Hit analyse. List updates. double click the cosmic signature you want in probe scanner window (e.g. data training site) to center solar system map, drag white box to red sphere/dot, spin map, drag it again, spin map & drag it again. Probe scanner is now centred on cosmic signature. (Change radius of scanners if needed.) Hit analyse. Repeat until you get a warp to button.

The short version for regularly typing into rookie help is alt-p, launch probes, open solar system map, drag probes around & scan. It's not obvious that solar system map is a thing if you're brand new and aren't used to clicking buttons to see what happens.

there are also other issues, like idiot-proofing something always producing a more determined idiot. I helped one guy who had done part 1 & 2, and was now on part 3, the first one you need to actually scan. He kept complaining he went to site and there was nothing to hack. turns out, he wasn't going to data training site or relic training site, he kept on going to anomaly training site, the one you need for mission 1 that doesn't have to be scanned down.

Quote:
3) Tutorial completed, i got a new mining ship and Aura asked me to go see the agents,. Sure, ok, i'll just try the new mining ship first. After a while, got back to my Ibis and heading to see the agents couple of jumps away, with autopiloting. Cool, i got there but I realized that my brand new mining ship is still at the first station and I have no idea where that station is located o_O


alt-t

I think including that in the NPE would also be good. Even if it's as simple as after you dock at career agent station, aura reminds you that you left 10m^3 of random stuff back at your old home 1-2 systems away, and you need to go and get it. alt-T to open your stuff, right click and set destination to that station, fly to it, get it, fly back to career agents.
Rimshot
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2016-12-06 14:15:11 UTC
why is there no ammo in my turret? ammo needs to be installed? Oh.

damage types? whats that? shield hull and structure?

Shield tanking hull tanking? is that a thing that people do?

Industry ok I made the data analiser and put it in my inventory why is tutorial still telling me to do that?

ok I did the tutorial and used my mini skill injector. damn It looks like I should have sold it for 600 mil instead/ 2 alts doing the tutorial and selling the injectors can pay for a plex that is so messed up.

omg Standings...........I am so lost. do the npc's really make me attack my own race and I get a -5 standings against my own faction for doing a security mission...... OOOOOPS

btw the voice acting.... I don't use sound so I read the script under the picture of the commander and aura and sit there for 5 minutes for the talking to end. soooo slow of a wait w/o advance to the next objective.

Oh crap I could have insured that ship that got blown up at the drifter hive. huh.

Why are all those other ships exiting warp right at the star gate and I have to fly slow for 10 km. what people tell me not to use Autopilot.... ok gotcha. autopilot is useless.

good lets all make Alts to sell skill injectors
Aquatic Blimp
Doomheim
#48 - 2016-12-08 20:34:05 UTC
Hi

I think the new tutorial is a vast improvement over the old one. Lol
My only sugestion would be to shrink the 'here' icons (for example: when it points to stop your ship button)

Also, in some ways the tutorial explains how to play EvE - but NOT the game. By that I mean how players can use poor gameplay strateges I.E drop a yellow can outside a new player station for an easy kill to up their kill board. Very Cheesey indeed if thats YOU Roll

I suppose it is all part of the learning curve, but maybe some 'dirty tatics' should be explained in the tutorial? Obviously not all could be explained otherwise you wouldn't finish it !!P

More around overview setting would also be good - colour setting, etc.etc.

Anyway love the game - I also have a full Omega clone running Shocked

TTFN fly safe

o/
Ed Liu
DDL Holdings INC.
#49 - 2016-12-11 16:07:54 UTC
1. it's not a big deal, but I think the tutorial should take away the survivors/scientist from the start, otherwise the player is generally forced to trash them and that has unfortunate implications for capsuleer treatment of humanity.
Xiu Kahn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2016-12-14 04:49:37 UTC
Could not reset the 2nd part of tutorial after shooting the Npc rat. Aura claimed to have highlighted the wreck or cargo container but nothing was found. I tried resetting my overviews to filter everything out but any containers.

Not sure if bug or not since I did the 2nd bit a few days after the 1st intro and return to base.

Speaking of overviews. Its still an annoying but essential function and usage should be covered sooner since your spaceship life depends on it. It hasn't been improved much since the early days. Yes I know how to use it but its cumbersome and hard to look at depending on what your doing.

"The maze is not mean't for you."

Xentara Vispari
Storm of Glory
#51 - 2016-12-18 15:36:15 UTC
I'm an Eve veteran, recently returned and I'm knowing the various tutorials the were released in the last 8 years.

Julien Brellier summarizes the currenty issues very well.

One thing that happened to me, while doing the new tutorial:

- when building the civilian data analyzer I found the industry window being "stuck". I could not start the production, because a suitable facility could not be found (only an animated circle for several minutes). Had to restart the client to get the task done.

While the new NPE is not bad regarding story and optical effects (some things are a bit ridiculous from a veterans point of view), there is a huge gap as soon as this tutorial ends.

EVE is a very complex game. A tutorial that should present a new player a path to get along on its own, is not done in about an hour.

The career agents are old (I don't think they have changed in the last 5-8 years). They cover some aspects of the game, but currently there is nothing the explains the concepts of "how do I fit a ship" for a certain purpose (armor, shield, buffer, speed tank).
Also the mechanics behind the different weapon systems are nowhere to be found (optimal, falloff, tracking - missile speed, explosion radius, explosion speed).

You can read various numbers with these terms on certain items. What is being needed is an ingame LINK at each term that explains the mechanics.


I was doing a mission on an alt today and had to destroy some kind of structure. The structure was not shown in the overview, so I had to check my overview setting for "large collideable structures". I think a new player would quit this mission (maybe even the game), because it is too hidden and you need to know what you are looking for.
I think there should be an option when reading the mission text, to switch on all necessary overview settings to find things relevant for a mission.

There are a lot of other GUI improvements I could think of, but that do not belong in this thread.
Winter duFallen
Cruisers Crew
Ghost Legion.
#52 - 2016-12-20 20:04:27 UTC
I love the new tutorial over the new one. It explains so much more. I do have one major issue.

Why are you teaching new pilots to rely on the autopilot? This is a horrible habit to form in Eve and will just result in their ships getting ganked.

Cyen Starthorne
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2016-12-22 23:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyen Starthorne
Why does the new tutorial podkill you?
Is this a cruel joke? I already had a set of implants in before I bothered going through this tutorial. And now, as a part of the tutorial, it podded me and I lost all those implants.

Why would you do this? Not everyone will instantly go through the tutorial. I for example bought a set of implants first while I was busy doing other things, then came back to the game and now this.
Marcus Rintel
Hopper's Hope Mining and Salvage
#54 - 2016-12-23 07:42:15 UTC
I tried the New Player Experience, with an alt, and loved it. The immersion factor went up a lot, and was more fun than the old tutorial with just Aura. Fleet Commander Kole Torelle was great. Loved the story line with him, and want to know more about the Black Eagles now. Hopefully, this wont be the last we see of Fleet Commander Kole Torelle, and the others.
addelee
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2016-12-24 01:58:40 UTC
It needs to be more flexible. I've run it for fun and got it bugged straight away as I didn't follow the tutorial to the letter (i.e. I killed an npc prematurely).

Having sat in rookie help for a week, rookies are doing this all the time.

I'd actually remove the NPE for now as it's confusing the hell out of a lot of people as it's pretty bugged and there's rarely a GM in rookie help in EU timezones.
cloolk Egnald
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#56 - 2016-12-26 02:14:15 UTC
Technically a returning player but my first character (2008) was so long ago that I am a noob. I don't remember there being much if any training for new pilots back then, but it do remember it make more then a week to get my character basic skills, and a month to have even a remote chance outside of HighSec. Things have really changed a lot.

When I went through the tutorial, there was a part where you travel through a gas cloud then you have to fight pirates, then you pick up supplies. After killing the first set of pirates I didn't pick up the supplies correctly. During the second wave I ended up back in gas cloud and had to warp away before being destroyed. Back at the base I repaired the ship and warped back. I finished off the second round of pirates, but I was not near the crate. It was just dumb luck in traveling through the system that I found it again and was able to continue.

I think there should be a more of a tutorial on finding things that don't immediately show up on the overview.

Also, outside of the tutorial I got a Venture, which supports drones, but I have no idea how to equip or use them or even what they are good for. Looks like I can equip mining drones, but it would make more sense for me to have a security drone so the venture can focus on mining.
cloolk Egnald
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#57 - 2016-12-26 02:21:39 UTC
Winter duFallen wrote:
I love the new tutorial over the new one. It explains so much more. I do have one major issue.

Why are you teaching new pilots to rely on the autopilot? This is a horrible habit to form in Eve and will just result in their ships getting ganked.



I think it was to force use to the use the afterburner.

But luckily I saw online that you shouldn't use it. So during the tutorials I used "Warp to 0m", or just the straight up "Jump" / "Dock" function which causes a warp automatically. Luckily, the tutorial seems to be ok if you don't use autopilot.
Malthaussen Hammill
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2017-01-06 01:59:16 UTC
Would help if there were a way to recap the instructions for the current phase of the tutorial.

-- Mal
Shingeno Asanari
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2017-01-17 18:02:41 UTC
I have a good friend who played this game ages ago and we also played DUST together. I finally got around to playing the game myself. A lot has changed since my friend played it long ago.

First of all, the game does a very good job of getting you started and teaching you the basics of flying, mining, and fighting. This is a pretty in depth game so it certainly helps to have all of that information.

The one thing I found lacking; and I am not sure if there is a mission that teaches you this aspect of the game or not, is when you need to use those probes for the Exploration line of quests. The first quest you get does virtually nothing to tell you how to use them at all and doesn't even mention anything about in game tutorials being available. I only found that out in a discussion in the rookie help chat. I actually found some tutorials some users made on YouTube before discovering this.

Using Probes doesn't seem all that difficult once you actually understand what exactly it is you are supposed to do. It is just a rather involved process that I think EVE should do a bit better job of explaining it to you.

So far though this is the only thing like this I have come across in my young new piloting career. Now that I know you can hit F12 on the keyboard to bring up tutorials if I ever have an issue like this again I can check there for some help.

Thank you for making such an awesome game. I am very much enjoying my space faring life!

~Shin
Eto Hashur
The Legendary Journey of the Honorable Trader
#60 - 2017-02-11 10:38:57 UTC
A couple of suggestions while doing the NPE:

IMPROVEMENTS:
During enaggement optimal position is orbit your target TO MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR THE ENEMY TO HIT YOU
-it doesnt mention it also makes them more difficult to hit
-You're told that you should repair when taking damage. However you receive an armor repairer. At this point you still don't know the difference between armor and shields so the newbie will think that the module does nothing.
-Some targets you're told to target appear out of targetting range but the player doesn't still know about targetting range. He only knows he can't target them for some untold reason.
-Ship stuck on asteroid and LCOs when approaching the container in the pirate base. A new player just would find his ship not responding without any knowledge of wha'ts happening or how to avoid it. Frustration ensues.
-Nobody tells you anything about "Show info", the most useful command to learn the game
-Trying to repackage the Ibis while damaged talks returns an error that talks about a "repair shop". The player doesn't know any of that.

BUGS:
-wrong Voice file when Aura tells you to open your inventory to "upgrade your ship"
-doesnt go forward if you already have the inventory open
-same wrong voice file when you fit the civilian armor repairer
- same after opening character sheet
- Can't pass injecting the Frigate skillbook because I already start with the skill at level II and I receive "You have already trained Caldari Frigate and cannot train it a second time.". Only way to go ahead is to drag the skill already injected into the queue (no way a newbie will do this by himself).
-Scientist and survivors remain in cargo even after docking and the pertinent dialogue about them talking with the navy
-Tutorial doesn't go forward after delivering civilian data analizer since I had the industry and the inventory window open the whole time.