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Concord's tacit approval of Terrorism.
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#21 - 2016-10-31 17:34:23 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq, the Hero of Amarr, Champion of Justice, Protector of the Innocent, Styler of Hair, and Poet to the Righteous.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#22 - 2016-10-31 17:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Deitra Vess
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
No more of a problem than it is for Jita, Rens or Dodixie. Wherever you have capsuleers congregating, you have conflict, and the Empyrean Wars reach into all of the trade hubs for that reason. Pilots must understand that they are never safe when engaged in the war, and the sooner they realize that the better.

I do find it unfortunate that our respective nations are required by CONCORD law to tolerate hostile pilots within their borders, but such is the way of things until the law changes. Until then, do your best to keep yourself safe and them in danger.

Oh, I was gonna say I know it happens across the board and I can think of a group in particular that did do it occasionally, it never came off as an official activity. It came off more like pirates being pirates. Personally I agree that Amarr should be forced to stay out of hek, just the same as Matari in Amarr, Caldari in Dodixie, ect. Fighting the "good fight" shouldn't involve going out of your wz to chase industrialists. They'll come into your AO in time where it's fair game if that's what you choose to target.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2016-10-31 22:23:01 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
No more of a problem than it is for Jita, Rens or Dodixie. Wherever you have capsuleers congregating, you have conflict, and the Empyrean Wars reach into all of the trade hubs for that reason. Pilots must understand that they are never safe when engaged in the war, and the sooner they realize that the better.

I do find it unfortunate that our respective nations are required by CONCORD law to tolerate hostile pilots within their borders, but such is the way of things until the law changes. Until then, do your best to keep yourself safe and them in danger.

Oh, I was gonna say I know it happens across the board and I can think of a group in particular that did do it occasionally, it never came off as an official activity. It came off more like pirates being pirates. Personally I agree that Amarr should be forced to stay out of hek, just the same as Matari in Amarr, Caldari in Dodixie, ect. Fighting the "good fight" shouldn't involve going out of your wz to chase industrialists. They'll come into your AO in time where it's fair game if that's what you choose to target.


The problem is that fighting a war like that is even more synthetic than the warzone is accused of being already. Frankly, I totally understand someone who wants to bring down a nice fat freighter full of war materiel before it turns into dangerous warships in the warzone. Inside the freighter hold is the most efficient place to destroy those hulls and modules.

So most groups now employ notionally neutral hauling subsidiaries to bring their weapons into the warzone. So now most groups will attack neutrals, since they're usually nothing more than combatants by another name.

That leads to attacking neutrals OUTSIDE of the warzone, if the risk is balanced by the proper reward. It's inevitable.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2016-11-01 09:38:17 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
Oh my, that's terrible news. I had no idea that malcontents could reach into trade hubs like that.


CONCORD is full of shite and the navy police patrol fleet everywhere are terrible at their jobs. Come on. How can anyone not know that?


Right? Everyone always acts like I'm an inscrutable spy when I turn up to meetings of the board at my construction project on Caldari Prime. "How did he get past the police? He must have special smuggling routes or a stealthed jumpship!"

No. I take a frigate and I'm off the gate by the time the Gallente Cop running traffic control has put down his doughnut to shout at me. I've cleared the exit gate LONG before the local patrols undock from their pleasure hubs.


It's only a danger if one sticks around in space for too long. And even then escape shouldn't be too much of an issue for someone who is paying attention.

The navy/fleet police always web first and point later. Apparently nobody told them that webbing someone first helps them escape faster.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-11-01 11:51:37 UTC
Terrorism is just a military tactics, it doesn't need someone's approval or disapproval except commanders who use it or avoid it.

If CONCORD approves terrorism:
1) There should be a link of CONCORD doing related actions to terror warfare (and at the moment they don't do anything).
2) It doesn't matter anyway, since I repeat, it concerns only those, who execute this tactics.

I myself disapprove tactics of terrorism, because I consider it to be just a 'poor man's war' and I believe it to be extremely inefficient, akin to simple resource embezzlement.

Yet neither my, nor CONCORD point of view won't affect those primitives (like listed tribals), who love to execute such simplistic and unprofessional approach to warfare.

I don't know the reason of this discussion at all. If the tribals like so much to represent themselves as amateurs in warfare - then just let them do this.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#26 - 2016-11-01 14:03:07 UTC
"Tribals" ganking freighters on the Amarr undock, you know that thing that's done by high sec Merc corps mainly that every militia has pilots guilty of. That includes State and 24ic pilots aswell as fed pilots equally as rarely.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-11-01 14:24:07 UTC
Well, when I gank frogs or tribals industrial vessel in their highsec, I don't do terror myself. My targets are legal enemies of the State, that carry good that can be used against the State unless destroyed or captured.

My goals are strictly professional. I often even loudly proclaim "FOR THE STATE!!" during or right before the attack, so they would know the reason they are being exterminated.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#28 - 2016-11-01 14:32:57 UTC
Won't get me to say that's necessarily horrible, I think the op was referring to neutrals though which I can't say I'm for.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2016-11-01 14:55:27 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
"Tribals" ganking freighters on the Amarr undock, you know that thing that's done by high sec Merc corps mainly that every militia has pilots guilty of. That includes State and 24ic pilots aswell as fed pilots equally as rarely.


Seen that thing happen in Dodixie or Villore before. Especially Villore, the symbolic center of Gallente governance.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#30 - 2016-11-01 20:24:46 UTC
You talking about TLF pilots, Elmund? Or militia pilots in general? I know I've seen 24ic pilots in rens and Hek, state pilots aswell (rarely but still). I should be shocked if that's the case but then again I don't think much is beyond what privateers will do for an isk. That goes beyond racial lines.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#31 - 2016-11-01 20:40:30 UTC
I think the only reason that enemy militia don't swarm into Jita as well, is that the targeting clutter makes it impractical to get a lock on and shoot before someone shoots them.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#32 - 2016-11-01 21:01:16 UTC
You can just filter out non-hostile targets, if you want.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#33 - 2016-11-01 21:15:03 UTC
Oh, Villore!
Such an infamous system.
I really should visit it more ofter and deliver some hot fresh justice just to culprits doors.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-11-02 02:34:32 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Oh, Villore!
Such an infamous system.
I really should visit it more ofter and deliver some hot fresh justice just to culprits doors.


I highly recommend this (solo), I also recommend that you loudly exclaim your attacks in local, preferably about 5 minutes before engaging, with several reminders leading up.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2016-11-02 03:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Deitra Vess wrote:
You talking about TLF pilots, Elmund? Or militia pilots in general? I know I've seen 24ic pilots in rens and Hek, state pilots aswell (rarely but still). I should be shocked if that's the case but then again I don't think much is beyond what privateers will do for an isk. That goes beyond racial lines.


State Protectorate pilots in Villore hanging out around the FDU station in their...Tornadoes.

24IC pilots hanging out in Hek and Rens in their...Tornadoes.

Yes. Tornadoes.

Valerie Valate wrote:
I think the only reason that enemy militia don't swarm into Jita as well, is that the targeting clutter makes it impractical to get a lock on and shoot before someone shoots them.


They have to deal with bigger fish in Jita.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Lord Kailethre
Tengoo Uninstallation Service
#36 - 2016-11-02 08:32:01 UTC
Baseless hatemongering such as that within the OP is part of what keeps the Empire and Republic from ever being able to move forward.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#37 - 2016-11-02 17:21:25 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Oh, Villore!
Such an infamous system.
I really should visit it more ofter and deliver some hot fresh justice just to culprits doors.


I highly recommend this (solo), I also recommend that you loudly exclaim your attacks in local, preferably about 5 minutes before engaging, with several reminders leading up.

I'll make sure I'll leave you a notification when I will...

...when I will consider considering any of your advices.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2016-11-02 21:59:09 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Oh, Villore!
Such an infamous system.
I really should visit it more ofter and deliver some hot fresh justice just to culprits doors.


I highly recommend this (solo), I also recommend that you loudly exclaim your attacks in local, preferably about 5 minutes before engaging, with several reminders leading up.


I have done this. Sometimes we endure a horde of Atrons. Most often it turns into shiptoasting in Local.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Vollhov Jr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2016-11-03 11:14:10 UTC
Nihta
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2016-11-08 19:31:49 UTC
Hey just wanted to throw this out here: the 24th imperial Crusade are a bunch of chumps. You can get REAL freedom and help REAL people in curse working with the Angel Cartel to smash not only the Republic but ALSO CONCORD. In fact yesterday I demolished a CONCORD blockade, freeing up a stargate. For the people, of course. Just say hi to Ellar Stin in Konora, tell her I sent ya.
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