Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You know whats funniest about this post ? The principal I am advocating - one which you and others are saying is so horrible and impossible to impliment - is already being used in this game.

Thats right. When a certain parameter is met, damage delivered to a target is modified. Already being done, albeit in a different form than what I am suggesting, but none the less the principle is used.

Tactical Shield Manipulation - " Skill at preventing damage from penetrating the shield, including the use of shield hardeners and other advanced shield modules. Reduces the chance of damage penetrating the shield when it falls below 25% by 5% per skill level, with 0% chance at level 5. " Now this may be much simpler than what I am suggesting, true, but its similar.

When a certain threshhold is met ( X amount of incoming fire volume/ area of ship ) then Y amount of damage will be reduced. Once you think about it its the same thing.

It doesn't reduce damage. It stops armor/hull from taking damage when being shot while your shields are below X%.

Uh, yeah. Thats why I quoted it so we could be clear on the effect. My point was that the principle - the idea that when X event happens, then Y formula is applied - is already used in game.

Your whole thought process about this is wrong. If you want to avoid blobbing your best bet is not to change the gameplay, it is to decentivise being in large groups. As it is, the easiest way to own space, and make tons of isk doing it, is to own giant regions of space with huge alliances. The plethora of Capital ships makes it super easy for a large alliance to attack and take space from a smaller player.

Essentially, once you secure your borders, the inside systems of an alliance are relatively safe. Leaving whoever to do whatever they want and make oodles of isk doing it.

If you want to see less blobbing, split up the giant alliances that are blobbing. Make it so that sov systems are exponentially more difficult to maintane and fund, and you'll see alliances shrinking their borders, allowing for new branches to come in, allowing for more pvp action between smaller groups of people, and less giant blobs.

All this talk about diminishing returns and altering sig radius is just treating symptomatic problems caused by the ease of maintaning a huge alliance in eve.

You swap to a system requiring you to take multiple tactical objectives. These could be based off of traditional pvp game formats; king of the hill, capture the flag, zone control, etc. How to design them for EVE would be a good topic for a threadnaught. The main idea being that there are many, smaller objectives, and sov is won when a particular critical mass is reached. This gives flexibility and doesn't require an attacking force to engage all types of objectives, but to choose the ones they are most effective against.

without Tactical Shield Manipulation, when you reach 25% shields, you start getting damage bleed to your armour

With Tactical Shield Manipulation:
Lv 1 - x% chance of bleedthrough at 20% or lower shield HP
Lv 2 - x% chance of bleedthrough at 15% or lower shield HP
Lv 3 - x% chance of bleedthrough at 10% or lower shield HP
lv 4 - x% chance of bleedthrough at 5% or lower shield HP
lv 5 - your shields have to hit 0% before any damage is applied to your armour.

(at least I can't find any changes to it since after Revelations 2.2, so late 2006-ish. In '08 there was additional discussion that seems to solidify this stance. Still can't find what the damage profile for bleed through is though, but from the discussion it seems static, maybe 20-25%. Will edit if I can find the info.)

from having the skill not trained, up to level four if the bleedthrough chance is "successful", you will always take the same percentage of damage. There is no "modification" of the incoming damage at all, with the exception that different resists are applied.

say you're shooting me with EM missiles. I have 12.5% resists on the shield (or whatever you get from a DCU II running). My armour has 70% resists. For ease of numbers, the missiles have a base damage (on paper, after your skills are applied) of 100.

when my shields are above 25%, 100% of your damage is being applied to my shield (less shield resists)
100 - 12.5 = 87.5 damage per missile being applied to the shields.

when my shields are at or below n%, the "bleedthrough" check is true (i.e. damage bleeds through). Where "n%" will change based on Tactical Shield Manipulation skill

75 * 0.875 = 65.6 damage to the shield
25 * 0.3 = 7.5 damage to armour

The only "reduction" to damage being done is that my higher armour resists mitigate the incoming damage better. To better show this, let's say you were hitting for EX, with 70% resists on the shields, and 0% in armour.

shield takes everything -- you're hitting for 30.
Bleed through:
75 * 0.3 = 21
25 * 1 = 25

you're doing 46 damage per volley because of the bleed through.

If you hate blobbing, you could play literally any other MMO with instanced PVP. You cannot blob someone in WoW's Arena. This is relevant to the discussion.

but the efffect nothing that you have in mind. You stop bleedthrough....not the actual damage. means that ship doing say 300 deeps rf emp is now putting 300 deeps on shields only, not doing split bleedthrough to armour. Ain't no damage restriction....you are getting full blast. its jsut on your shields only.



Also worth noting if you read the numerous threads on this skill.....getting this skill level to 5 can actually be bad for you. You actually wwant the bleedthroough so the shields get a small breather to get a good full passive or active recharge cycle. At TSM 5.....that rf emp or amarr lazer is basically sticking a fork in your shields. Let some damge hit armour....shields get a second wind if lucky somewhat.

Sort of like this primary your are on about. Its actually bad to use sometimes. If the enemy has a strong tight logi support chain going....focus fire is not the smartest ting to do. As many smart Fc's have found....if logi'd out like its cool, best to spread fire out. Logi's cna't get the reps out as well and stuff goes boom faster. When you focus fire with good logi support....you make their life much easier just repping like 2 ships vice 8 if you spread the fire out.

I'm always willing to accept discussion of an idea. The problem is that the posts I answered to generally weren't constructive in any form or fashion. They were just simply attacks that are too often the norm for forums. Those I will always answer with the sarcasm and disdain they deserve. So as far as you implying I am a 'douchebag' for defending my post , GFY.

As to your idea, I look forward to it. Anything that can improve the game is encouraged and welcome by me.

this is not relevent because the mechanics of fighting are worlds apart. do you know how sad it is every time someone tries to quote WoW???
and for everyone who is completely discounting this idea; this thread was created off the idea of how to ballance, or to word better, innovate new methods of diversifying combat. granted Monomorium is very opinionated, as are many of the people disagreeing with him, but he does have a good point on how the ways in which wars are fought could use more interesting tactics.

so instead of aggreeing or disagreeing i will offer a suggestion. what if there was a new ship stat that was added as well as skills to go along with it. this stat could limit the amount of targets allowed to lock it. this would of course be effected by ship class etc.. I'm sure this wouldnt work and that most of you would not like it, but rather that bicker like gradeschoolers lets throw ideas back and forth.