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Small Gang Ship Progression
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BearThatCares
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#1 - 2016-10-23 22:45:12 UTC  |  Edited by: BearThatCares
Hi all,

After digging around through numerous resources, it's pretty tough to find elaboration on small gang PvP, key ships and their purposes, and fits.

I've been around the PvP block quite a bit, but I've never really handled small gangs with electronic warfare or logistics, it's usually just been an all-tackle blob or cruisers with logi. Recently my friends and I have been more interested in contributing a lot more to fleet rather than the F1 monkey mindset, and I'm having trouble figuring out tech 1 ships for them.

So far, I figured that Atrons would be pretty good for tackle, and some heavy DPS ships like the Algos would be good for mopping whatever they catch. The maulus and griffin are pretty popular EWAR boats, so that would be set for electronic warfare. And everybody loves the Inquisitor.

What would be the natural progression of this fleet? Moving into Enyos and Deacons, with Keres support? Or would it just be better to move into Thoraxs/Vexors with some EWAR boats? What would be the best method of figuring out the engagement profile of these fleets?

TLDR : Is it better to progres (SP wise) from T1 frigates to T1 cruisers, or T1 Frigates to T2 Frigates, or something else?

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Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-10-24 12:33:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Andre Vauban
BearThatCares wrote:
Hi all,

After digging around through numerous resources, it's pretty tough to find elaboration on small gang PvP, key ships and their purposes, and fits.

I've been around the PvP block quite a bit, but I've never really handled small gangs with electronic warfare or logistics, it's usually just been an all-tackle blob or cruisers with logi. Recently my friends and I have been more interested in contributing a lot more to fleet rather than the F1 monkey mindset, and I'm having trouble figuring out tech 1 ships for them.

So far, I figured that Atrons would be pretty good for tackle, and some heavy DPS ships like the Algos would be good for mopping whatever they catch. The maulus and griffin are pretty popular EWAR boats, so that would be set for electronic warfare. And everybody loves the Inquisitor.

What would be the natural progression of this fleet? Moving into Enyos and Deacons, with Keres support? Or would it just be better to move into Thoraxs/Vexors with some EWAR boats? What would be the best method of figuring out the engagement profile of these fleets?

TLDR : Is it better to progres (SP wise) from T1 frigates to T1 cruisers, or T1 Frigates to T2 Frigates, or something else?


It depends on if you want to fly small gang frigate, destroyer, or cruiser size hulls. All three are viable, including mixing and matching. What I would say is preferred is to cross train all 4 racial ships in frigates, then destroyers, then cruisers and/or T3Ds. Do all of this prior to pushing a single race up to BC and BS.

AF's really aren't in a great spot right now, as T1 destroyers are comparable and T3D's are just so much better. Maybe this will change with the T3D nerf, maybe not. T2 logi frigates are great to have as well as T2 ewar ships though. Also, don't forget the pirate/faction frigates, as those can also be very nice in small/micro gangs.

.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2016-10-25 00:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
I run a ‘solo’ small gang … multiboxing several characters … and below is how I view my setup. Most of my play is camping in nature, currently behind enemy lines in Tribute. I don’t do the running-around-in-circles type of PvP, more inclined towards patiently waiting for targets to come to me … while I do industry stuff on other characters … so this may only have limited relevance or interest to others.

  1. Target choice. Critical to a lot of PvP play. I use scout alts to see what is coming my way so I can decide when to make a try and when to stay quiet, or bravely run away.
  2. Target isolation, tackle and DPS. I use a scram-fit sabre. This lets me encourage my targets to play where I want (in my bubble several hundred km from anywhere they may feel safe), initially stops them from running fast (scram) or warping away (second bubble), stops them from MJDing (scram), and is mostly all I need on the DPS side of things (autocannons).
  3. Target incapacitation and more DPS. For this I have a Pilgrim. It has a faction point so can keep a hold of targets from a moderate range. 3 medium neuts are awesome at keeping things from running away … once you get a first cycle on them. Most cap-boosted ships also fail here, although some well managed ones escape … and some, especially BCs and BSs, kill me. It also runs light, medium, and EW drones so can add a significant amount of DPS to the Sabre. Mostly the Sabre is adequate but I decloak the Pilgrim when I am after cruisers or higher and special frigates / destroyers. For nasty little targets, e.g. cancer ships, I make an initial Sabre scram tackle to stop them running away from the slower Pilgrim, and then when the target is neuted out (no longer scramming me) and my sabre is in half-armor or worse I bravely run away leaving the Pilgrim’s drones to finish the job. For nasty cruiser targets, that would easily and quickly kill my Sabre, I drop a second bubble on the target … usually before he has even landed … burn and cloak, leaving the dirty work to the Pilgrim. For BCs and BSs I Sabre scram, and take my chances, to stop them MJDing away, and apply Pilgrim neuts and drones as needed.
  4. GTFO and very nasty target incapacitation. For this I have a Falcon. It is far from being a ‘get out of jail free’ card but it is a very good force multiplier. Of course it becomes the main target when folk try to counter-tarp me and I have lost it a couple of times recently … one when I tackled a nightmare, the other a tarp by my target.
  5. Wealth generation support. I also have a hauler in system and collect the drop from my targets when I can. This is not a huge income but amounts to a few billion isk each time I haul out to hisec.
  6. Ship replacement. Depending on where I am camping I ether rely on getting out to hisec fro replacement ships, or a carrier that I keep very close by.


So there you have it. As I see it small gangs need: reconnaissance; target isolation and tackle capability; target incapacitation capability; damage delivery, disengagement options; and logistics support of some sort. Some would also suggest boosts as an additional force multiplier, and when I do have a booster helping out I really notice the difference. Which of those you use, and how you choose to do so, is entirely up to you and your approach to eve PvP.
Happy hunting.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#4 - 2016-10-26 00:21:21 UTC
Quote:
After digging around through numerous resources, it's pretty tough to find elaboration on small gang PvP, key ships and their purposes, and fits.


Chessur has a series of videos on youtube that break down the various roles, as well as example fits, which should give you an idea of what to look at.

Beyond that though, it's a matter of finding ships you're comfortable with flying. Small gang PvP isn't a one size fits all thing, each group has their own way of doing things that evolve over time; it's a process of trial and error to begin with as you experiment with fits and become familiar with the various strengths and weaknesses of your members.

Quote:
TLDR : Is it better to progres (SP wise) from T1 frigates to T1 cruisers, or T1 Frigates to T2 Frigates, or something else?


Again, this isn't a clear cut area, but as a general rule of thumb you'll find that ships filling specific roles will progress more naturally toward their T2 equivalent. A tackle frig becomes an Interceptor, or a Griffin becomes a Kitsune, but with a DPS platform you might find a larger ship or its faction equivalent is the better option. So the answer here is to find your role within the group and train accordingly. It is a lot quicker to train into the various Tech 2 frigate hulls as advancing up the classes requires additional training for larger weapon systems.

Using your Atron/Algos combo as an example, your Atron pilot might want to progress to an Ares or Keres which only requires two additional skills. Your Algos pilot on the other hand needs the Cruiser skill to at least 4, Tech 2 Medium Drones, and Tech 2 Medium weapons, before taking into account other fitting requirements.
gnshadowninja
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-11-01 23:52:33 UTC
Lets keel it simple, in all cases you need to fulfil a role the same as any other MMORPG.

If you need logi then take logi, ecm then take damps, neuts or ecm, if dos then go max dps.
As long as all roles are filled then its optional, personally i always like to be the utility as everyone concentrates on gank.
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#6 - 2016-11-02 15:06:36 UTC
Dont progress stay in faction frigs, electronic frigs, and destroyers, way too much fun!

T1 Frig
T2 Frig
T1 Destroyer
T2 Destroyers
Faction Frigs and AF's
T1 Cruiser
Faction cruisers