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Resistance to Web: Role Bonus for AF
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Lugh Crow-Slave
#21 - 2016-10-21 12:29:50 UTC
I could see a Web reducing being interesting but immunity would be to strong imo

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Deckel
Island Paradise
#22 - 2016-10-24 05:50:13 UTC
Instead of Web immune you could also take it the other way and make their MWD Scram immune. They do get MWD sig bonuses already after all. This would just be taking that technology one step further.

This would make it so that they are free to get completely in your face without getting completely shut down in a dog fight. Sure webs would still slow them down but they may be able to overheat their way out of it. They would be the Aces of MWD combat, always being able to keep the speed advantage
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#23 - 2016-10-24 12:51:43 UTC
Deckel wrote:
Instead of Web immune you could also take it the other way and make their MWD Scram immune. They do get MWD sig bonuses already after all. This would just be taking that technology one step further.

This would make it so that they are free to get completely in your face without getting completely shut down in a dog fight. Sure webs would still slow them down but they may be able to overheat their way out of it. They would be the Aces of MWD combat, always being able to keep the speed advantage


The AB/MWD dual module would solve that without having them be too OP.
Deckel
Island Paradise
#24 - 2016-10-24 23:24:17 UTC
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
Deckel wrote:
Instead of Web immune you could also take it the other way and make their MWD Scram immune. They do get MWD sig bonuses already after all. This would just be taking that technology one step further.

This would make it so that they are free to get completely in your face without getting completely shut down in a dog fight. Sure webs would still slow them down but they may be able to overheat their way out of it. They would be the Aces of MWD combat, always being able to keep the speed advantage


The AB/MWD dual module would solve that without having them be too OP.



And further gimp the AF by making it necessary to use up a utility Mid and stressing the powergrid? It would be better to make it so that such a dual prop fit becomes completely irrelevant on these ships.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2016-10-25 01:10:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Want to buff AF?

Nerf the T3D.

You know, I'm probably not going to be the first person to notice/point this out, but I think the T3D problem is speed. It borks one of the biggest pillars of CCP ship balance to have T3Ds go that fast. The only thing frigates really have is speed, and to have a bigger class of ship with more weaponry, defense, speed, and broad tactical ability, means that it literally obsoletes everything below it in a heartbeat.

Some of those advantages come naturally from being a bigger ship class, and some others come naturally from being another tech tier higher. But you can't have all that AND speed. That's the frigates' domain. I think the only thing the T3D need is removal of propulsion mode, and then they're fine. They'd still be pretty powerful (especially in the right hands), but that puts them back in line where they're supposed to be.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2016-10-25 05:07:47 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Want to buff AF?

Nerf the T3D.

You know, I'm probably not going to be the first person to notice/point this out, but I think the T3D problem is speed. It borks one of the biggest pillars of CCP ship balance to have T3Ds go that fast. The only thing frigates really have is speed, and to have a bigger class of ship with more weaponry, defense, speed, and broad tactical ability, means that it literally obsoletes everything below it in a heartbeat.

Some of those advantages come naturally from being a bigger ship class, and some others come naturally from being another tech tier higher. But you can't have all that AND speed. That's the frigates' domain. I think the only thing the T3D need is removal of propulsion mode, and then they're fine. They'd still be pretty powerful (especially in the right hands), but that puts them back in line where they're supposed to be.


Way more than just speed. They are rolling around with 30k EHP, tiny sig, speed long range and firepower. I mean, compare your average svipul with a thrasher. There is no way a svipul is a destroyer when you look at those stats.
GROUND XERO
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#27 - 2016-10-25 05:37:52 UTC
So if we compare it to some other things.....

AF are like this .... compared to
T3Ds ...

so why should ppl spend time on something that is "oldschool" like this? :_)

Nerf T3Ds and stop thinking about buffing ships or modules arround the OP thinngys!

NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#28 - 2016-10-25 12:50:40 UTC
GROUND XERO wrote:
So if we compare it to some other things.....

AF are like this .... compared to
T3Ds ...

so why should ppl spend time on something that is "oldschool" like this? :_)

Nerf T3Ds and stop thinking about buffing ships or modules arround the OP thinngys!


Given they are T3's I guess they are supposed to be OP. Nerf announcement is imminent so we can all wait and see. Maybe they need more cost associated with the T3's if they are going to remain OP to represent the T3ness of it.

Whatever nerf is a week away.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#29 - 2016-10-25 14:46:32 UTC
GROUND XERO wrote:
So if we compare it to some other things.....

AF are like this .... compared to
T3Ds ...

so why should ppl spend time on something that is "oldschool" like this? :_)

Nerf T3Ds and stop thinking about buffing ships or modules arround the OP thinngys!



AF were underused before T3D were in the game. They had a brief surge after their balance pass as everyone tried them out. They came out better due to some cpu/grid adjustments and a few mid and low slot adjustments. Folks hopped in and took to the skies. The problem was the misplaced MWD bonus. A scrammed AF dies quickly. Long range kiting fits just weren't that fun as drams and inties made a mockery of them. Sure they died slowly, but the point is they died.

Web resistance won't help them. Once they get scrammed - poof. The armor AF don't have enough mids for dual prop and tackle and the shield AF give up their tankability to sport all that mid slot candy. Neither option has been enough to ever put AF in a good place. MWD bonus makes them vulnerable to scrams which makes them unpopular. Web resistance won't fix that. Just about anything can kill a scrammed AF.

T3D - sure they are OP. That doesn't preclude making AF good. Again - just about anything kills a scrammed AF. Nerfing T3D won't bring AF back in line because they never were in line, so back isn't an option.

I may dislike T3D more than everyone (except Baltec1 - he's a nutter though), but that doesn't mean AF are in a good place.


AB bonus or bust!!!!
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#30 - 2016-10-25 16:28:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
AFs dont need gimmicks. They need grid and slot adjustments, potentially trait adjustments as well.

By making them web resistant, its a nerf to larger ships that dont need nerfing. AF are still good at dealing with larger ships for the most part. Its in their own class that they suffer.

To make them competitive in their class, they need more grid to fit decent fits without excessive pg/cpu mods. More cap, more base HP, and rolling some roles together to make room for other roles. Example is the jag and wolf both having 2 5% damage skills. Just make it a 10% damage and give the jag a shield boost bonus. Change hawk from shield boost to shield HP or missile explosion velocity bonus (like a good, tankier corax). Would be enough to make them strong, but not rely on silly gimmicks. More about fits and experience. As it should be.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
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