EVE General Discussion

Anyways, I'm not protesting to CCP to turn back on their EULA change, nor do I need to have my IWI Isk back to have fun in the game. I still like EVE as a game and there are many exciting new things coming up here, although for me the game has regressed now and I see more limited sandbox future for EVE with this particular incident showing CCP's intention for the game world.

I will still enjoy the game, and I'll do what else I can do in the game in my own ways. It's just that EVE is less special for me now than it has ever been, but I have already admitted that this disappointment is my fault as I had too high expectations and standards for what CCP can deliver as a game, considering the commercial aspect they have to deal with.

You will feel the changes though. Trust me. Alpha toons coming up, CCP's handling of the IWI fiasco, the way the games are being focused now. It will be a fun game. A fun space ship game with a bit of market and economy stuff that can be fun to play with. But it is no longer a niche game or uphold ground breaking vision of a sand box game.

The game will no longer transcend itself to more than something it is now. Yes, it can be more fun, yes it could have more players, yet CCP could make more money, yes there could be more action, but the game concept development stopped here from my view point.

I accept the limitations imposed by RL issues and will take it as it is. But I just wanted to express my views on what has happened to the game from long term point of view, in this period where people are so distracted by ISK loss and gambling legalities and RMT scandals and such other details.

I won't try to change anybody's mind on their support/protest on what CCP has done. This was just technical analysis of what has happened and its implications for EVE. That's all there is to it.

my last post on this, for tl/dr

EVE could become more fun, it could have more players, there could be more things you can do in game, there could be more ships to fly, new things to explore and destroy, etc. It will be a fun and successful game for long time, and I don't even for a moment feel that 'eve is dying' because of banning gambling.

Players may feel that their game is getting better, more fun, etc, and CCP could be making more profits or whatever, which could go back into the development to make the game 'better', in the traditional notion of 'progress'.

But unless CCP realises what they have done (they probably do, they ain't stupid), and change their mind about their vision for the game and how they approach these kind of issues, EVE will never transcend into a different game again or get closer to the sandbox ideals many of us old players enjoyed. Maybe current boundaries as a sandbox will be good/fun enough for you, but that's where it stops.

As a gaming framework, EVE will remain what it is, till the server closes, and we will never see a new world structure again, maybe some new systems and regions or whatever, but no new era/social stage.

That I find sad, but I accept it for what it is. This is the limitations CCP has hit and this is where dream ends and we just consume the EVE as another product of the Culture Industry machine.

Okay i see what you mean

When i saw regression i thought you were saying "it was better before said regression", and with your arguments it seems you are disapointed with the direction CCP has taken with eve.
I thought Regressing had a negative meaning, and so i disagreed with that, because for me the recent changes are not negative to the eve sandbox actually im quite happy with the nogambling thing and the alpha clones update

Same when you say eve has transcended what it was with those third party websites, i see only emergent gameplay crossing a little more the sandbox's border, and for me, das not gud, so going back to something das gud, aint no regression, its correcting the mistakes that were made by letting people do whatever they wanted and using the little holes in the EULA.

Now these holes have been covered

Again sorry for the eventual english mistakes

Ok, this a bit off topic now, but I'm really puzzled.

I honestly have no clue why some people think there's nothing in what I say. How more clearly can I express my thoughts? I even gave a whole list of literature to look up on if someone is unfamiliar with the very basic ideas behind what I'm saying.

I have my educational background on social theory, but I work in super high tech industry now. I talk to engineers and read technical papers and scientific research papers all the time while having minimal educational background in natural science.

I don't completely understand everything that's written on such papers, especially scientific formula, but I never feel that such papers say 'nothing' just because it's not something I'm familiar with or trained in.

Reading something that's written in very plain English, where basic concepts are explained multiple times in various ways to help understanding, yet if you see nothing in it I really don't know what to do.

I honestly hope it's my lack of communication skills or problem with expressing my thoughts, but heck, for my entire working life I made my living from writing and speaking and I earn enough with this that I can afford house and support my family and made huge progresses in my professional career even after the big switch from academia specialising in social theories to business environment in high tech industry. The only reason I could do this was because I could read, think, write and speak, not because I had technical experience or engineering genius in this new field.

So either I have a problem, which I can accept, and would be happy if anyone can point out and explain to me so I can get better at it, or some people are just not even trying to understand what I'm saying, which I would find sad if that were the case.

I don't mind that people disagree with what I say, but to actually say that I'm saying 'nothing'?

Thanks for wishing me luck on finding my way, I appreciate the concern.

But no, gambling wasn't something that kept myself from self destruction IRL, I started to EVE gamble at IWI only this May 2016, and I survived 30+ years without IWI before trying it out for the first time just a few months ago, so I assume I can live my life without gambling with ISK.

And I greatly enjoyed EVE for almost a decade without gambling with ISK until this year. I really do appreciate the kind concern, but I'm just really lost and cannot understand where such assumptions about me comes from, in addition to the fact that I have absolutely no clue why people say I'm saying 'nothing' or 'not saying anything'.

I will not argue back about who's right or wrong or whatever, I expressed my thoughts clearly and it is very specific point about very specific shift in the development of a game we all play, which I assumed would be good enough common ground to make sense. Now I'm just genuinely curious why some people say I'm saying 'nothing'. :p

Thanks Eternus for the comment, altough it's still based on the assumption that what I write is fueld by my personal issues. There is nothing more I can say on this if people cannot separate my own gambling tendencies with my thoughts on social framework and changes of the game. It's almost like if someone from a certain alliance says something about the game people automatically assume it as conspiracy to serve that alliance's interests. It is sad that words are not judged on its own merit and there is more enphasis on who said it and what kind of a person that is, the same BS I hated in academia. But it is what it is. Thanks for your comment.

tl,dr

But if you do a multi trillion ISK third party site you better have proof that everything is legit and do a transparent accounting. (I don't know if they did or didn't, CCPs will look into that for sure.)

If not you will get busted at some point. It's not "you can't proof I did something wrong", it's "you better have consistant journals for that scale of ISK juggling". Rememer: It's CCPs game we are playing, not the other way around.

Once again CCP cut off some part of the EvE and don't give anything in return.

Evelopedia: closed, no replacement was made, even no "lore part" was released.

DUST: closed, something was promised to be relesed. Someday. In distant future.

IGB: removed, no replacement, no new tools for third-party devs.

Soundbox: not so many people even remember now about it.

WiS: cancelled, promised to be never rised again. No social tools in return.

IWI: banned, no in-game gambling was made.


What we had instead? SKINs, SP trading, F2P.

It looks like CCP cut off everything what don't bring fast and easy cash. Such moves were usually made in other MMOs right before closure.

Not another "EVE IZ DYEING!!!!11" post, just a hint.

Except for that tiny little detailthat IWI was never part of Eve.

People decide the value of the speech based on the value of the speaker. "I'm a gambling addict, on and let me casually mention also a substance abuser, but ignore all that and focus on this precise point that I have, which is actually mostly spin and whining that I'll spend the next dozen replies fine-tuning with more spin."


Case-in-point for the spin:1. Sandbox is neither ground-breaking nor invented by CCP.
2. Your 3rd party gambling site was NOT inside the sandbox; on the contrary, you spend the better part of your original post explaining how it was outside it.
3. EVE isn't niche solely because of its sandbox; it's also niche as a PVP game, as a sci-fi / space flight game, and as an MMO.

#spaceshipsoutforiwantisk