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New ship explosions on Singularity

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Author
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#41 - 2016-10-19 18:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
CCP Savior wrote:


There are some great ideas coming out in this thread, we'll be aiming to discuss them all internally as potential for a second pass on the explosions once we've released.


This is awesome!

Explosions are really worth doing right imo, in a game with such a permanent sense of loss like EVE, killing and dying has a strong emotional weight that deserves great effects!

Have you given any thought to giving blue color explosions for capsuleer deaths and orange for NPC deaths? Much like the explosions of old. EIther way, a player ship death should look different than an NPC ship death, in my opinion.

Also, while I like the randomness in the explosions, having one with a wildly different color for no reason kinda sends the wrong message don't you think? While not tie it to T2 ships for players and/or rare or powerful NPCs?

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Lugh Crow-Slave
#42 - 2016-10-19 19:25:07 UTC
Vo'rian Eumenes wrote:
CCP Myrkur wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
some ships explode in blue (which looks really nice) what decides which ships explode in blue?


So here's how this works:
There is a probability factor on the individual explosions, and there are 3 explosions in the explosion bucket for a battleship, one with a probability of 6, one with a probability of 4 and one with a probability of 1. This means that basically that last explosion comes one in 10 times a battleship explodes, on the lore side, we could say that the blue one is some kind of specific technology/state of matter on the ship getting ignited in a bad way, versus the others being regular thermal/explosive explosions.

That's roughly the rarity for most explosions on sisi at the moment, this may change. I'd definitely like to have at least one explosion which shows up super rarely, as in maybe 1 in a hundred ships is going to blow up that way.. but something like that would have to come in a later patch, due to time constraints.

Also, these explosions are not racial, but that doesn't mean we can't play with that where we want to, as the system can support it, we just feel this is a better start. We did however decide to go with racially colored explosions for the titans, just because as the pinnacle of ship size, that's pretty insanely epically cool.



Hey so I've been thinking... and that leads to crazy places...

Going for realism *gasp*

A. Sound: Sorry for being a killjoy on this, but in practice, sound does not travel through space, and as such hearing an explosion would seem unrealistic... boring I know. But:

A1. Only the guys blowing up should hear the actual explosion sound...

A2. For the people doing the killing, as i presume there is a range for particles flying from the explosion. Those particles end up hitting or not the attacking, or nearby vessels, resulting in a 'hail-like' sound, which could translate on a technical level as the existing explosion sound, in a compressed time, at a lower volume. that volume and the pitch of the sound changeing based on proximity to the explosion.

A3. It would also be nice if that 'hail' would be modulated based on what it was hitting such as shield, armor or hull...

A4. When the ship starts to burn up, it would be nice the pilot flying it would have a growing number of subtle alarms and burning sounds

B. Visual: again striving for that #realism (god damn it i did it again!)

B1. The idea of racial explosion color seems nice if there is lore to support it, but I am not that familiar with the lore so I can't comment on that.

B2. I would recommend a slightly different approach to the probability behind explosion outcome, based on ship content. In the sense that Capitals and Super capitals require different types of fuel to operate. and simply formulate an if statement akong the line of "if cargo = isotope X, Y, Z then Explosion A if X > Y and X > Z; else Explosion B if Y > X etc... Where as the smaller ships could be influenced by cargo such as volume of missiles on board and their type, large volume of EM missiles = blue explosion, thermal and explosion = red explosion and kinetic = standard explosion + more particles.

Lastly C: Damage...
It would be really really nice, if things blowing up, would do some, not a lot of AOE damage, as in a titan blowing up would take the nearby frigates... in a 10-30 km range... where frigates blowing up just dint other frigates or, drop a shuttle to half. something of the sort... I know this would be a large undertaking to balance out for abuse and what not, but on can dream.



All of your realism issues are covered with eves catch all "the warp drives do strange things" this is why you fly more like you are in water than in space and can also be used to cover the sound thing
Lugh Crow-Slave
#43 - 2016-10-19 19:26:18 UTC
Altrue wrote:
CCP Savior wrote:


There are some great ideas coming out in this thread, we'll be aiming to discuss them all internally as potential for a second pass on the explosions once we've released.


This is awesome!

Explosions are really worth doing right imo, in a game with such a permanent sense of loss like EVE, killing and dying has a strong emotional weight that deserves great effects!

Have you given any thought to giving blue color explosions for capsuleer deaths and orange for NPC deaths? Much like the explosions of old. EIther way, a player ship death should look different than an NPC ship death, in my opinion.

Also, while I like the randomness in the explosions, having one with a wildly different color for no reason kinda sends the wrong message don't you think? While not tie it to T2 ships for players and/or rare or powerful NPCs?



npcs should not be able to have the "mega/blue" explosions i think would be the best way to do this
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
#44 - 2016-10-19 20:57:49 UTC
I've been playing around with it some more doing missions on SiSi and have a little more feedback / gushing / ideas:


  • The small explosions are hard to see from a distance or in dusty environments, maybe make them a little bigger so they are more visible?
  • The large flaming fireballs of the large explosion curve in space on some of the effects, not sure that this makes sense.
  • Please increase the ability of the camera to zoom in, 'cuz I want to see the small explosions close up and the camera doesn't zoom in far enough. Although, this does give a nice visual reward for essentially doing a broadside....hmmm Sad
  • Now that I actually want to look at the ships I'm exploding Lol, I find the UI getting in the way. Specifically the ship symbol in space and the square target bracket occlude all but the larger ships until they get in really close. These go away when the ship is destroyed, of course, so they don't interfere with seeing the explosion itself, but it does get in the way of viewing the ship leading up to that. Maybe make it so that the square bracket scales to the size of the bounding box, and have the in-space-icon fade out when in close enough for visual identification? This would make seeing the ship a lot easier.
  • Ion blue explosion == pure win and dirty underwear.... It happens enough to look forward to, but not so much that you get tired of seeing it.
  • I wish I was there for the mass test, as I can only imagine the light show! Edit: Just watched a vid of it...o...m...g... =)
  • Listing looks awesome most of the time, but when ships get stuck in structures it's quite hilarious watching them bounce around. I saw a Megathron in The Assault bouncing around inside a structure. When I killed it, it started twirling around much faster than what you'd expect


Anyway, you guys are knocking this one out of the park! A couple of bug fixes and tweaks and you'll have my new favorite explosion system =)
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#45 - 2016-10-19 21:22:32 UTC
Looks awesome~

One question I have, though: will Drifters keep their green explosion effect? It's a nice difference and adds to their alien nature. I'd also ask if Sleepers will use the blue explosion, as their current explosions are blue too.
Abramul
Canadian Forces Corp
United 4 Nations
#46 - 2016-10-19 23:32:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Abramul
Re: Explosion colors and effects

Ideally, explosion graphics should depend on

  • What is exploding
  • How hard you hit it (Vent the drive core! VENT THE...)
  • RNG


RNG is there, it sounds like there are some different effects for 'barely dead', but type could use some development. Factors

Drive type

  • Amarr - Fusion: Propellants would be hydrogen or helium. From hydrogen, you would get UV, blue, and orange flame. Helium looks like it would give an orange to red glow.
  • Caldari - Magpulse: Probable propellant would be lithium. You'd get emissions with similar colors to Caldari drives, (blue, faint purple, a touch of yellow), and red/pink flame where it oxidises
  • Gallente - Ion: Having a little trouble with this one. It looks like Iodine is a viable propellant, with a matching emission spectrum.
  • Minmatar - Plasma: No details on good propellants, however noble gases are up there, and propellants tend to be nonreactive. Probably just diffuse version of Minmatar drive colors.


Reactor type

  • Amarr - Antimatter: Bright white, fast
  • Caldari - Graviton: heavy visual distortion, not much glow?
  • Gallente - Fusion: Yellow, jets of plasma coming out of containment
  • Minmatar - Nuclear: One or several hotspots of core material. Start in the yellow-white range, fade slowly to cherry red


Weapons and ammo

  • Hybrid - Electric discharges from the coils. No interesting effects from the ammo.
  • Laser - Some light discharges as the emitters get power surges. Frequency crystals would be out of play by this point.
  • Projectile - Rounds cook off, explosions. Big explosion if magazine is hit.
  • Missile - Popcorn!
  • Drone - Sound effects, similar to rogue drone communication code.


Each of these would be a 'not always' thing. Maybe you got a direct hit to the reactor, but left the propellant stores intact, or took out a major weapons area and get only those effects ... or maybe the whole thing snowballs.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2016-10-20 15:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Old Pervert
Also, one nit that I want to pick about one of the feedback items... hearing the explosion.

It's absolutely true that we wouldn't hear it. Our eardrums would burst pretty fast in space assuming they didn't pressure balance in time.

That said... sound is just changes in pressure.

A shockwave produced by an explosion is indeed a change in pressure. Under special circumstances, there is indeed "sound in space".

Quote:
Caldari - Graviton: heavy visual distortion, not much glow?


I'd rather see their ships start exploding, and then IMPLODE on themselves somehow.
Kielen Dres
Sefem Ortus
The Serenity Syndicate
#48 - 2016-10-22 01:22:38 UTC
I was just running some missions on Sisi. The explosions look great except they seem to be fixed at the coordinates in space RELATIVE TO MY SHIP AT THE TIME OF EXPLOSION.

So after destroying one of two stationary objects i was orbiting, it looked as if the explosion was following me away from the original point of explosion.

I tested this with a number of camera modes, targets and movement vectors. It happened in all situations.

I am running the client under Wine on Arch, so if someone with a Windows machine could test this it would be great.
CCP Savior
C C P
C C P Alliance
#49 - 2016-10-24 11:53:13 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Savior
Kielen Dres wrote:
I was just running some missions on Sisi. The explosions look great except they seem to be fixed at the coordinates in space RELATIVE TO MY SHIP AT THE TIME OF EXPLOSION.

So after destroying one of two stationary objects i was orbiting, it looked as if the explosion was following me away from the original point of explosion.

I tested this with a number of camera modes, targets and movement vectors. It happened in all situations.

I am running the client under Wine on Arch, so if someone with a Windows machine could test this it would be great.


Thanks for the feedback, we made a few changes to the explosion system late last week which might be the reason behind this. We're looking into it and should have it fixed shortly.

We've also made a few changes with how the camera interacts with a dying ship. If you have 'Dynamic camera movement' enabled in the ESC menu, and you 'look at' a ship while in orbit camera, you'll see the camera will now begin moving away from the hull as its begins to explode. This is to give you a view of the smaller 'local' explosions, followed by a smooth zoom out so you can all witness the majesty of the larger 'global' explosion.

We'd love to get your thoughts on this and please do let us know about any concerns you might have with the camera interacting with the scene in this way.

Graphical QA Analyst | EVE Quality Assurance | Team TriLambda

FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2016-10-24 16:16:08 UTC
CCP Savior wrote:
We'd love to get your thoughts on this and please do let us know about any concerns you might have with the camera interacting with the scene in this way.


Just please make sure the watch pretty explosion feature can be overridden by a player trying to look at something else. Watching explosions is great, but when the next one you have to watch if your own ship they become somewhat less awesome.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#51 - 2016-10-24 20:29:37 UTC
CCP Savior wrote:
If you have 'Dynamic camera movement' enabled in the ESC menu, and you 'look at' a ship while in orbit camera, you'll see


Yet another bit of dev time I won't get to enjoy because it is bundled with other disliked camera features.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

CCP Myrkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#52 - 2016-10-24 21:22:43 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Looks awesome~

One question I have, though: will Drifters keep their green explosion effect? It's a nice difference and adds to their alien nature. I'd also ask if Sleepers will use the blue explosion, as their current explosions are blue too.


yes!, Sleepers will explode in a sleepery fashion(White-ish blue) and Drifters in a Driftery fashion (greenish yellow) also, bit's of lightning and distortion.

CCP Myrkur | Senior 3D & FX Artist | Team TriLambda

Dirty-Rotten-Pirate
Rancer Tourism Association
#53 - 2016-10-25 08:36:51 UTC
Can we _please_ have a ship modification that does nothing other than produce a Titan-sized explosion in a frigate?


Ship Modification/Small Rigs/Astronautic Rigs: ' Small Unprotected Ammunition Magazine I '



If the blast damages all other ships in the vicinity then a whole new world of game play would emerge...

CCP Savior
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2016-10-25 09:39:54 UTC
FearlessLittleToaster wrote:
CCP Savior wrote:
We'd love to get your thoughts on this and please do let us know about any concerns you might have with the camera interacting with the scene in this way.


Just please make sure the watch pretty explosion feature can be overridden by a player trying to look at something else. Watching explosions is great, but when the next one you have to watch if your own ship they become somewhat less awesome.


Do not fear, a mere click of the mouse and the camera movement is cut short with the camera zipping back to your own hull.

Graphical QA Analyst | EVE Quality Assurance | Team TriLambda

Brown Pathfinder
Black Spot on Parchment
#55 - 2016-10-25 09:57:44 UTC
A small suggestion, is it possible to add a slight drift?
Say if your ship is moving X speed , the wreckage is flying in Y direction and slowing down?
Grookshank
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2016-10-25 10:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Grookshank
CCP Savior wrote:
FearlessLittleToaster wrote:
CCP Savior wrote:
We'd love to get your thoughts on this and please do let us know about any concerns you might have with the camera interacting with the scene in this way.


Just please make sure the watch pretty explosion feature can be overridden by a player trying to look at something else. Watching explosions is great, but when the next one you have to watch if your own ship they become somewhat less awesome.


Do not fear, a mere click of the mouse and the camera movement is cut short with the camera zipping back to your own hull.

I hope I misunderstand this: You are not again implementing a feature where you take camera control over, do you?
Soleil Fournier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2016-10-25 12:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
When my ship explodes, the pod is ejected away from it and the camera focuses in on the pod.

If I want to watch the explosion, I have to quickly re-locate the ship and then click look at.

When the pod ejects, I'd like the camera to just keep focusing on the ship/explosion unless I initiate another command such as warp or move.
Circumstantial Evidence
#58 - 2016-10-25 13:25:08 UTC
Grookshank wrote:
I hope I misunderstand this: You are not again impementing a feature where you take camera control over, do you?
Tracing back CCP Savior's replies, its only a problem if the Dynamic Camera feature is enabled. I think they want to give new players a more cinematic experience, and so it appers they continue to invest in new tricks for Dynamic Camera.
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
#59 - 2016-10-28 17:39:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Baljos Arnjak
Hey, just thought I'd drop in a little more feedback since the expansion got delayed a bit.


  • Look At - I love the cinematic effect this gives! Maybe it could be turned more into a camera mode so that once the current explosion is finished playing and the camera would normally go back to the ship, have it go to the next selected target instead. This way we don't have to do a "look at" for every ship. Also, it zooms out about 25% too far, making it so you can see the entire large explosion but with the effect of making it look smaller.
  • Explosion Sounds - The small explosion sounds are good, but the big one needs some more oomph. It sounds more like gas escaping from a pressurized container. It's also very low in volume, I had to go to the audio properties and turn explosions all the way up just to hear them (when I could hear everything else as normal).
  • Camera Shake - Adding some camera shake when the camera is close to the explosion would add to the power of the explosion. Right now it seems to have one little bump when the ship first starts it explosion sequence, maybe this is a left over from when explosions were single events.
  • Armor/Hull damage visual - Now that I'm watching up close, I can see the damage effects on the skin of the ship. The transition up to higher damage levels is instant and looks bad. Maybe have the effect ease in over half a second?
  • Autocannons seriously need a better effect....it's barely visible.
  • Structure explosions are awesome! They make me want to blow up everything in sight =) And they make me want to blow up bigger and bigger stuff! I even contemplated getting my dread and/or carrier out to run lvl5's Twisted
  • The voice acting in the NPE seems good, only saw the beginning of the Minmatar one though. It's nice having a voice to go along with the face, makes things seem much more personable.
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