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Slavery For Pieter

Author
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2016-10-06 16:13:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
I think that I need to cut in here and make a point. (And God knows I might be wrong.) At no point in my religious education were the Scriptures called the inerrant word of God. In fact, given that the Book of Records is just that: records; I fail to see how the entirety of the Scriptures can be.


I'm beginning to think this entire argument was singularly caused by the fact that the Amarrian religion's writings are about as categorically organized as a high school jock's bookbag.

That kinda causes major issues, and I'm beginning to garner a fair bit of sympathy for the poor suckers who have to parse this crap for a living because the first Amarrians didn't start off on the right foot by using tab dividers.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Arrendis
TK Corp
#142 - 2016-10-06 16:20:05 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
I think that I need to cut in here and make a point. (And God knows I might be wrong.) At no point in my religious education were the Scriptures called the inerrant word of God. In fact, given that the Book of Records is just that: records; I fail to see how the entirety of the Scriptures can be.


Careful, we got on this entire track because your liege took exception to the idea that The Word could be 'wrong and bad'. (If there's an engineering treatise in there that's wrong, btw? That's bad.)
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#143 - 2016-10-06 16:32:37 UTC
Then listen to her. Because I clearly don't know what I am talking about.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2016-10-06 16:47:25 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Then listen to her. Because I clearly don't know what I am talking about.


I wouldn't sell yourself so short. I'm more inclined to listen to the humble person, at least humility could be a sign of the very important knowledge that we know very little.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#145 - 2016-10-06 16:50:22 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:

It does not matter how righteous I act. I will never be True by any deed I can accomplish in this mortal life. The only possible way to get that title, to be declared True today, is to marry into a line that already has it and obtain it for your children. Because God Chose once and not again, and we as a society have decided that that choice is passed down by blood instead of deed.

Patience is a virtue.

When the point is made with multitudes of "I" and impetuous demands it does make you wonder that the choice is indeed right and passed down by lineage, deeds are just there to cement that or wither away brick by brick, deed by deed.


I use "I" because I am a direct example by not being True Amarr. But apparently that word choice is wrong and selfish of me. I beg your forgiveness. Next time time I'll use the impersonal "someone", and "lesser race".

And do tell me what exactly I demanded?

My point is that there are people who are still called True even after betraying the Empire, blaspheming against God, and being struck from the Book of Records. Those people are allowed to compete in the Succession Trials for emperor, even. Meanwhile, a slave can go their entire life being a devout servant of God, from a faithful lineage of ten generations, and forever be lesser. It has nothing to do with patience.

Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
God isn't bound to abide by what titles are awarded by people. If you think it does not matter how righteous you act or whether you live in fear of God, then you put more stake into what fallible humans expect of you than into what God desires of people.


No. I am just tired of seeing fallible humans claiming to be infallible because of who a long-dead ancestor of theirs was, while we see them commit crimes that would damn their soul. Sometimes there is justice, sometimes they get enslaved, but in most cases forgiveness comes easy for someone descended from Amarr Islanders.
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#146 - 2016-10-06 16:52:35 UTC
I think, informed by nothing more than good looks and these wits, that the true source of this short story verging on novel of back and forth can be explained by somebody's preference to win in an argument rather than find truth.

Not the worse sin.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13

Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#147 - 2016-10-06 16:55:05 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

I mean... this is the mind-boggling bit here: if it's really that massive a body of work, how do the people who study it know if there isn't something else in the millions of volumes of text that changes the meaning of what they're interpreting? How do they know their interpretation isn't expressly contradicted by a volume they've never even heard of, because there's too many volumes to even count?


The Majority of the Scriptures consist of volumes that are of only Slight Relevance to the Majority of People's daily Lives.

The Writings of Saint Pedanticus, Patron Saint of Health and Safety in the Workplace, are an Example. The Basic Principles are known by Many persons, who Work in an Environment in which the Principles of Saint Pedanticus apply. However, few people would Know All of Saint Pedanticus's Commentaries on each and every Principle that he Wrote, or the Particular Examples which he would Use to Illustrate his Principles. Example being the Commentary on the Use of Man-Portable Centrifugal-Flow Air Blowers in the Context of Vegetation Maintenance Operations in Civic Parks, wherein it is Described the Appropriate Signage to be used, the Appropriate Personal Protective Equipment to be used by involved Persons, and the relevant Safe Working Distances to be Observed. Full Understanding of this Commentary would Require the Reader to be familiar with the Man-Portable Centrifugal-Flow Air Blowers in use, the Kind of Vegetation prevalent in Civic Parks, and the Nature of Personal Protective Equipment available, At the Time that Saint Pedanticus was Writing.

Subsequent Writers have Written additional Volumes Commentating on the Principles of Saint Pedanticus, as Applied to the Contexts of Their Times, and Questioning whether the Principles still hold True, or whether Mankind's Understanding of God's Universe has Changed such that the Principles of Saint Pedanticus are no longer Sufficient in themselves, and require Additional Principles. For Example, when Saint Pedanticus Commented that Ear Defenders are Required for operation of Power Tools, it relates to Chemical-Engine powered Devices, as Those were the Devices in Use at the Time of Saint Pedanticus's Writing. Subsequent Authors have Commented on the Requirement of Ear Protection, when more Modern equipment is Quieter or even Noiseless in Operation.

Elmund Egivand wrote:
You are telling me the Empire doesn't index all these books? And that they do not have librarians who know which volume is relevant to whatever it was you are looking for? Can't you just walk up to any of them, armed with a library card, and request for the relevant volumes or for an index or indices to refer to?


The Scriptures are Indexed, however, the Volume of Information is Vast. I have been Told, by Cardinal Graelyn, that when the Order of Tetrimon was required to Move One of their sets of The Scriptures dating to Before the Moral Reforms, it took Several Bestowers to move the Material.

Which was not Physical Books, but Data Storage Devices, of various Forms.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Amarrians - if Scripture is so huge and beyond human understanding, why haven't you created an Artificial Intelligence that can parse it in its entirety? You could feed in your situation and it could dig up the relevant verses. Just saying.


Hello. During the Time when I am not Occupied with Matters of State, or Important Parental Activities with my Daughter, I contemplate the Scriptures.

At an Average of around 12 Hours a Day of Contemplation, I expect to be able to have Properly Interpreted the Scriptures at Some point within the Next 400 Years.

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#148 - 2016-10-06 17:17:44 UTC
Are you just randomly capitalizing the first letters of words there?
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#149 - 2016-10-06 17:22:29 UTC
Randomly inventing Scripture, too.
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#150 - 2016-10-06 17:23:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
The Kaztropol house style of capitalization apparently involves capitalizing nouns, verbs, and adverbs. I think.

EDIT: I did read Saint Pedanticus' work. It's obscure but it is real. Also, surprisingly helpful. Public works Scripture is a little boring but they really knew how to plan a park or make a cloverleaf interchange.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#151 - 2016-10-06 18:04:11 UTC
The main problem with arguing theology is there are no facts to prove it right. And by the same token, none to prove it wrong either. So the argument boils down to a matter of perspective and, ultimately, a lot of Ad Hominem and straw men.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#152 - 2016-10-06 18:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Claudia Osyn wrote:
The main problem with arguing theology is there are no facts to prove it right. And by the same token, none to prove it wrong either. So the argument boils down to a matter of perspective and, ultimately, a lot of Ad Hominem and straw men.


You did catch that one side of this discussion is, in fact, the very unfalsifiability you're claiming makes the discussion impossible to have, right? That in effect, you've said 'it's impossible talk about this because one of you has been making my point all along'? So in effect, you're saying it's impossible to have the very discussion we're having?

I submit that the fact that we're having this discussion means it's possible to have this discussion. Otherwise, Lady Newelle and I are doing the impossible, and thus, gods.

Psst: we're not gods.

P.S.: At least, I don't think we're gods. I kinda get the feeling that if we were gods, Sami'd have told me by now. Probably by smacking me and telling me to stop being a false god because being a false god in public is inappropriate.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#153 - 2016-10-06 18:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:
The Kaztropol house style of capitalization apparently involves capitalizing nouns, verbs, and adverbs. I think.

EDIT: I did read Saint Pedanticus' work. It's obscure but it is real. Also, surprisingly helpful. Public works Scripture is a little boring but they really knew how to plan a park or make a cloverleaf interchange.


You know, I was all sorts of weirded out by this, too, but then I realized that by claiming to have read the works of Saint 'Literally-a-made-up-word-implying-I-correct-you-on-every-little-nitpick', you're engaging in extremely subtle Amarr snark. Well played.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#154 - 2016-10-06 18:57:22 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I feel like this discussion has, again, become nothing more than a bunch of people lying in wait to get their feelings hurt to justify playing the usual trap cards. Any discussion is nothing more than attempting to get the other side to say the thing that allows the opposition to roll on the floor clutching their knee.

"M'freedoms!"
'M'faith!"
"M'freedoms!"
"M'faith!"

And so on, ad nauseum.

Tribals are simple not smart enough, so they fell to gallente propaganda, longing for their chaos.

Have any ideas how to fix minmatars before they destroy themselves and everything around them?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#155 - 2016-10-06 19:17:41 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
The main problem with arguing theology is there are no facts to prove it right. And by the same token, none to prove it wrong either. So the argument boils down to a matter of perspective and, ultimately, a lot of Ad Hominem and straw men.


You did catch that one side of this discussion is, in fact, the very unfalsifiability you're claiming makes the discussion impossible to have, right? That in effect, you've said 'it's impossible talk about this because one of you has been making my point all along'? So in effect, you're saying it's impossible to have the very discussion we're having?

I submit that the fact that we're having this discussion means it's possible to have this discussion. Otherwise, Lady Newelle and I are doing the impossible, and thus, gods.

Psst: we're not gods.

P.S.: At least, I don't think we're gods. I kinda get the feeling that if we were gods, Sami'd have told me by now. Probably by smacking me and telling me to stop being a false god because being a false god in public is inappropriate.

No, I'm saying that neither side will relent their position on the matter, not that it is impossible to discuss it. It just won't go anywhere.

P.S. I am a God. Worship me.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#156 - 2016-10-06 19:29:18 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I feel like this discussion has, again, become nothing more than a bunch of people lying in wait to get their feelings hurt to justify playing the usual trap cards. Any discussion is nothing more than attempting to get the other side to say the thing that allows the opposition to roll on the floor clutching their knee.

"M'freedoms!"
'M'faith!"
"M'freedoms!"
"M'faith!"

And so on, ad nauseum.

Tribals are simple not smart enough, so they fell to gallente propaganda, longing for their chaos.

Have any ideas how to fix minmatars before they destroy themselves and everything around them?

We don't need your help, we are progressing just fine without you mucking things up further. Also, we didn't fall for any propaganda. We allied ourselves with the Federation to prevent the Amarr from steamrolling us, we continue to honor that alliance today because when we commit to something we see it through.... and it hasn't been to much of an inconvenience.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#157 - 2016-10-06 21:35:31 UTC
Kim is a horrible troll and a thread derailer of the first magnitude Pilot Toov. Best to simply block and ignore her.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#158 - 2016-10-06 21:38:01 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:

P.S. I am a God. Worship me.


Sorry, wrong side of the argument for that.
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#159 - 2016-10-06 21:49:40 UTC
So are we enslaving Pieter or not? I've been getting the cage ready since this thread started.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#160 - 2016-10-06 21:59:54 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Kim is a horrible troll and a thread derailer of the first magnitude Pilot Toov. Best to simply block and ignore her.

Tried that. Discovered that I would have to block 90% of the rest of the IGS to avoid seeing her posts, and since I steadfastly refuse to be dislodged from this forum by a troll, I figured I would just leave her unblocked and try and view it as free lulz...

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.