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Slavery For Pieter
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Arrendis
TK Corp
#1 - 2016-10-04 18:27:34 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Whilst the institution of slavery baffles me, the discussion of it ought to have it's own thread. I will say that I instinctively mistrust any generalization that sweeping, though.


THIS IS THAT THREAD!

What? What did you think I was talking about? Holy carp, people.

Anyway! SLAVERY!

It's bad. I'll put more cogent thoughts in when I haven't been making sure the new shipment of HugJuice is potent. WOO!

Discuss.
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#2 - 2016-10-04 18:39:56 UTC
The idea of owning people is terrible, what else there is to discuss?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#3 - 2016-10-04 18:42:08 UTC
Well, I mean, he does have to make up for being a dirty pirate and all.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Aradina Varren
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#4 - 2016-10-04 18:42:16 UTC
I hope I don't offend anyone when I say that slavery is very not good.

Quite not good indeed.

Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
Merchant Rova
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-10-04 18:43:35 UTC
"Ah a simple Minmatar, you fail to understand. We were just enslaving you so you would join our religion and for no other reason, we swear" -An Amarrian somewhere in the cluster

Of course slavery is horrible.

RIP Merchant Rova's cheekbones, YC118-YC119. Forever in our hearts.
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#6 - 2016-10-04 18:50:22 UTC
Providing people with food, housing, employment, education, health care, and opportunity for advancement is terrible. Anybody who does these things should be ganged up upon and ostracized.

Unless they belong to my exclusive social club, or do these things in the same way as it’s done where I live.
Zekiel Iyhr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#7 - 2016-10-04 18:55:54 UTC
Let us not delude ourselves with this thread. I have wavering trust in the original topic poster in and of herself, given the track record of playing the devil's advocate in many situations. Even considering such a thing, it is possible this thread was made with the genuine sincerity of discussing the institution of slavery.

However, this will not happen.

The current mood on the IGS for any such particular reason is, at the moment, a vehement toxin-laced opposition to the mere concept of the institution itself. Some of these worries are, I feel, based in an unkempt straw bed of truth. However, I do not believe this thread will be able to sufficiently discuss these issues and, as such, the benefits of the institution of slavery. I do not doubt, then, this thread will devolve into the frothing "circlejerk" (that is the word, yes?) that springs most oft from the peanut gallery that peruses threads for a cheap word in edgewise.

I do not discourage correspondence over this topic. I simply doubt the Summit of having a useful one.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#8 - 2016-10-04 19:02:20 UTC
Well, as long as they consent and you respect the safe word...

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#9 - 2016-10-04 19:09:29 UTC
Slavery for Pieter.

Miniature Caldari flags for others !

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#10 - 2016-10-04 19:16:03 UTC
The concept of self-determination seems completely foreign to the proponents of slavery so I don't see there being much possibility for discussion.

That said I think there is disproportionate focus on the Amarr people when it comes to criticism of the institution of slavery. There are many forms of slavery practiced in New Eden, for example I doubt many of the vocal opponents of slavery in Caille are aware of the human cost of the cheap goods and services that make their comfortable lives possible.
Mitara Newelle
Newelle Family
#11 - 2016-10-04 19:31:50 UTC
Oh look, foreigners are here to tell us how The Word is wrong and bad.

How cute.

Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#12 - 2016-10-04 19:33:47 UTC
Mitara Newelle wrote:
Oh look, foreigners are here to tell us how The Word is wrong and bad.

How cute.

Well, you would keep lying to yourself otherwise. It's for your own good.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-10-04 19:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Karmilla Strife wrote:
Providing people with food, housing, employment, education, health care, and opportunity for advancement is terrible. Anybody who does these things should be ganged up upon and ostracized.



Oh **** right off. Do not equate slavery with ordinary employment, there are very distinct differences that you are well aware of. This is lying by omission, and to see an Amarrian, justifying slavery, play the victim like this is the icing on the cake.

Such distinctions between employment and slavery include: not being able to leave, and generally having no rights other than the ones that you are TOLD you have (subject to be taken away at the discretion of the person who put you in that situation, with no input or recourse from you), from no negotiating position at all. Being subjected to whippings, arbitrary execution, and if you decide you want to leave, instead of severance pay, your throat gets severed so you can serve as an example to others who get "uppity". Only someone who has had no intimate experience with the institution, or stands to profit greatly from the obscuring of these facts, could say such a stupid thing.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#14 - 2016-10-04 19:50:24 UTC
The debate on slavery is pretty much over. Those on both sides of the argument have stated their position and will not change until some external factors come into play.

Any discussion on the topic is likely to become a shouting and insult match within three posts. If you actually want to have a discussion, pick two or three people that are knowledgeable on the topic from various points of view and sit in a room with them.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#15 - 2016-10-04 19:57:43 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
The debate on slavery is pretty much over. Those on both sides of the argument have stated their position and will not change until some external factors come into play.

Any discussion on the topic is likely to become a shouting and insult match within three posts. If you actually want to have a discussion, pick two or three people that are knowledgeable on the topic from various points of view and sit in a room with them.


Well said.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#16 - 2016-10-04 20:01:43 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Whilst the institution of slavery baffles me, the discussion of it ought to have it's own thread. I will say that I instinctively mistrust any generalization that sweeping, though.


THIS IS THAT THREAD!

What? What did you think I was talking about? Holy carp, people.

Anyway! SLAVERY!

It's bad. I'll put more cogent thoughts in when I haven't been making sure the new shipment of HugJuice is potent. WOO!

Discuss.

That's very Arrendiotish of you.


Slavery is not bad. Slavery is just a phenomenon, that has both bad and good sides. Claiming it has only bad sides is incredibly ignorant and myopic.

Oh, and yes. Slavery is illegal in the State. Discuss it as much as you can, but if you try to bring actual slaves or become a slave in the State, I'll shoot you.

And have a nice jam.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#17 - 2016-10-04 20:05:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Claudia Osyn
Diana Kim wrote:
or become a slave in the State, I'll shoot you.

You are aware that becoming a slave, by it's very nature, is not a voluntary thing? You should shoot the slaver not the slave.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Mitara Newelle
Newelle Family
#18 - 2016-10-04 20:13:03 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Mitara Newelle wrote:
Oh look, foreigners are here to tell us how The Word is wrong and bad.

How cute.

Well, you would keep lying to yourself otherwise. It's for your own good.


A Gallente telling me what is best for my life... This has lightened my day. Truly funny.

I am reminded of a quote, a bit crude mind you, however none the less true from Thumal Ebotiz -

"We were eating off golden plates while the other races were still using their hands to wipe their arses."

Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-10-04 20:15:21 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
or become a slave in the State, I'll shoot you.

You are aware that becoming a slave, by it's very nature, is not a voluntary thing? You should shoot the slaver not the slave.

Being a slave is illegal.

I heard some peoples in the Federation were willingly becoming slaves, even despite it is illegal in the Federation as well.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Mitara Newelle
Newelle Family
#20 - 2016-10-04 20:23:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mitara Newelle
Diana Kim wrote:
I heard some peoples in the Federation were willingly becoming slaves, even despite it is illegal in the Federation as well.


If these people relocate to the Empire, Strike Commander, tell them to seek out my representatives, they can perform the necessary paperwork.


EDIT: I misread what you posted, these people have already committed themselves. Well, my offer stands should any more come forward to you.

Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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