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[November] Introducing the Porpoise

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Author
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#181 - 2016-10-15 04:45:04 UTC
RainReaper wrote:

I do belive you are missing one important aspect of the porpoise. the fact that it can pass trough frigate only wormholes. imagine a battlecruiser like ship in a wormhole where only frigates should be allowed. with powered up drones to take on any small frigate gangs that might apear to try and gank some endurances or prospects. and if you have 3 you could spider tank a little thanks to the porpoises enhanced remote shield bonuses. people will think twice about attacking a well prepared wormhole mining fleet lol.
altough i guess bombers might be a bit of a problem... but hey. there needs to be a paper for your rock somewhere lol

so yeah for new players you got a cheap highsec mining op boosting ship and for the veterans we got a ship that can be used to harvest frigate only wormholes of their sweet ABC ore :p

Yeah, the BC that fits in Frigate WH's is a bit silly.
And could easily have been solved by giving the Prospect or Endurance a single boosting slot with no bonuses to give a Frigate WH booster if needed. Or they could have just left that area of space with no boosters.

Heck, remember the Prospect can fit fleet boosts also, it might not get bonuses to them but it can fit them. So you can take a combat booster through frigate WH's.
Darth Bex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2016-10-15 10:28:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Bex
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Heck, remember the Prospect can fit fleet boosts also, it might not get bonuses to them but it can fit them. So you can take a combat booster through frigate WH's.


That's what Command Destroyers are for.

It's not like over sized ships fitting through wormholes too small for their class doesn't have precedent. The Nestor is the only Battleship that can enter a C1 and Interdictors have been squeezing through Frigate sized wormhole since they spawned. No point getting bogged down in the details.

As it stands, it makes for a useful booster/hauler to navigate those small apertures and is sorely needed in W-Space in particular.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#183 - 2016-10-15 11:59:49 UTC
Darth Bex wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Heck, remember the Prospect can fit fleet boosts also, it might not get bonuses to them but it can fit them. So you can take a combat booster through frigate WH's.


That's what Command Destroyers are for.

It's not like over sized ships fitting through wormholes too small for their class doesn't have precedent. The Nestor is the only Battleship that can enter a C1 and Interdictors have been squeezing through Frigate sized wormhole since they spawned. No point getting bogged down in the details.

As it stands, it makes for a useful booster/hauler to navigate those small apertures and is sorely needed in W-Space in particular.


In fact, if you are smart with your fitting, you can even squeeze Heavy Interdictors through frigate-sized holes.
Darth Bex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#184 - 2016-10-15 12:30:00 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
In fact, if you are smart with your fitting, you can even squeeze Heavy Interdictors through frigate-sized holes.


You must know I meant Heavy Interdictors, surely?

There's nothing clever about it, you just fit a single warp disruption field generator.
Chan'aar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#185 - 2016-10-15 13:45:49 UTC
When will this be on SISI for testing?

The current fitting simulation indicates the ship can only have one command burst fitted, I guess it is not fully authored yet.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2016-10-15 14:18:19 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:

Okay, should they put off the mining revamp until they have another ship model done? Roll

It's not even like the Porpoise is a terribly important ship either, it's a newbie-friendly mining booster. Most older players will use an Orca or Rorqual.

No, Cade, that's an exaggeration and it is ridiculous and I didn't say that. My point was if they're running into deadlines while modelling things internally, that's probably room for improvement.

There is a difference between games companies and art firms. When you own the IP, you can forego some things and concentrate on developing the IP. Modelling new ships and structures in-house is one of them.

Modelling in-house is what a lot of companies do, but there's another difference with CCP from most games companies: they're on an island, and expecting artists to move to Iceland will severely limit the capabilities of the company (if they insist on doing everything in-house and that house is in Iceland).

A ship and texture can be modelled anywhere in the world. There is a lot of talent out there and it would not only save time to take advantage of that but it would also improve the game and our experience.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#187 - 2016-10-15 14:21:56 UTC
Darth Bex wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
In fact, if you are smart with your fitting, you can even squeeze Heavy Interdictors through frigate-sized holes.


You must know I meant Heavy Interdictors, surely?



Of course not, if I had known I wouldn't have wasted time on writing a post. Sorry, I just assumed you didn't know about Heavy Interdictors. P
Goati
Doomheim
#188 - 2016-10-15 15:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Goati
The porpoise is on the test server and it's significantly gimped compared to what was advertised.

25m3 drone hold, 25m3 bandwidth

3k structure
2k armor
1.7k shields.

Gonna be useless with such low EHP.

Hopefully it's just code copied from the noctis and the stats arn't updated yet. I'm thinking so[/quote]
Goati
Doomheim
#189 - 2016-10-15 15:39:33 UTC
double post
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
#190 - 2016-10-15 18:56:41 UTC
Goati wrote:
The porpoise is on the test server and it's significantly gimped compared to what was advertised.

25m3 drone hold, 25m3 bandwidth

3k structure
2k armor
1.7k shields.

Gonna be useless with such low EHP.

Hopefully it's just code copied from the noctis and the stats arn't updated yet. I'm thinking so
[/quote]

It's the noctis renamed. The layout currently is 8/2/3.
Alana Packham
Corporation N
#191 - 2016-10-16 12:21:00 UTC
As it has the new command burst thingies this is no use at all in hi as it will just be bumped out of range.

Code don't even need to lose a few ships ganking it, just takes 1 bloke to push it along out of range and it is totally pointless and useless, same as the new orca.

Fit anchors on mining command ships!

Its not that the Dev's have never been hi-sec miners, more that if they ever admitted it they'd be designing new pattern's in the dust as they sweep the car park. Would you employ someone who spends all day mining in hi?

Echo Mande
#192 - 2016-10-16 14:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Echo Mande
Alana Packham wrote:
Fit anchors on mining command ships!

Which is precisely why I've suggested allowing the Orca (but not the Porpoise) to use the Industrial Cores, with slight modifications to their effects (half or less fuel usage, burst strength bonus and drone bonuses).

IMO the Porpoise is tailor made for mobile roaming ops (lowsec or with mining frigates), fill-and-go ops and low end operators without the skill to use the Orca. Using an Orca IMO means you've got a hauler alt available so the Orca can stay on station with the miners.
Kaivarian Coste
High Sec Express
#193 - 2016-10-16 15:33:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaivarian Coste
This ship looks interesting, and will definitely be an asset for low sec / WH ice miners (yes they do exist!).

But what's the minimum fleet size to make a Porpoise worthwhile (e.g. 2 Endurances + a Porpoise vs 3 Endurances: which would be better?).

edit: looking at the "COMMAND BURSTS AND THE NEW WORLD OF FLEET BOOSTING" dev blog, it shows that a "Mining Laser Optimization" command burst will reduce the cycle of a ice harvester (or laser?) by up to 57%. So this is more than half. Basically an Endurance + Porpoise is better than two Endurances?
Thomas Lot
Spatial Forces
Warped Intentions
#194 - 2016-10-16 15:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Lot
I am reposting this in the feedback thread. I posted it earlier in the 'Ships/Modules' thread as well.


I am working in nul under a fully boosted rorqual system. Using a Procurer with T2 mining crystals and max skills. I am pulling very close to 2500 m3/min ore. In the dev blog covering the introduction of the mining boost changes, the Porpoise is said to be able to achieve comparable mining rate of a mining barge. Maybe the developers are referring to a raw, unboosted mining barge with no Orca or Rorqual support.

This is not really a fair comparison. The mining drones are not going to be affected by the boost mechanics and therefore will only achieve about half the mining rate of a mining barge under boosted operations. Factor in the pitifully slow movement of mining drones and that number decreases to as much as a fourth of the yield of a barge.

Many dedicated miners may be very disappointed with this aspect of the Ascension mining mechanic.
RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
#195 - 2016-10-16 16:04:49 UTC
Kaivarian Coste wrote:
This ship looks interesting, and will definitely be an asset for low sec / WH ice miners (yes they do exist!).

But what's the minimum fleet size to make a Porpoise worthwhile (e.g. 2 Endurances + a Porpoise vs 3 Endurances: which would be better?).

edit: looking at the "COMMAND BURSTS AND THE NEW WORLD OF FLEET BOOSTING" dev blog, it shows that a "Mining Laser Optimization" command burst will reduce the cycle of a ice harvester (or laser?) by up to 57%. So this is more than half. Basically an Endurance + Porpoise is better than two Endurances?


Id say 1 porpois and then 1 endurance/prospect atleast. you need tor emember that the porpoise got boosted attack drones and mining drones., while not as good as an orca they will ahve around the same mining ability as a barge. wich beats the yield of any mining frigate lol. and they can also fight back against hostile frigates that will show up in the frigate only wormholes. and heck if you bring mutiple ones you can spdier tank them. they do have remote shield booster range bonuses.
RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
#196 - 2016-10-16 16:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: RainReaper
Thomas Lot wrote:
I am reposting this in the feedback thread. I posted it earlier in the 'Ships/Modules' thread as well.


I am working in nul under a fully boosted rorqual system. Using a Prospect with T2 mining crystals and max skills. I am pulling very close to 2500 m3/min ore. In the dev blog covering the introduction of the mining boost changes, the Porpoise is said to be able to achieve comparable mining rate of a mining barge. Maybe the developers are referring to a raw, unboosted mining barge with no Orca or Rorqual support.

This is not really a fair comparison. The mining drones are not going to be affected by the boost mechanics and therefore will only achieve about half the mining rate of a mining barge under boosted operations. Factor in the pitifully slow movement of mining drones and that number decreases to as much as a fourth of the yield of a barge.

Many dedicated miners may be very disappointed with this aspect of the Ascension mining mechanic.


I dont think your using it the right way here. its main usage is the fact that it can access frigate only wormholes. and it costs the same as a battlecruiser to build. making it exelent for new players who want to boost in highsec and cant afford an orca.
and again. in frigate only wormholes its the only one that can give boosts to a fleet as well as bring logi to the fleet. the area it will truly shine is wormhole space.

Bessides. if the industrial command ships could mine the same amount as a fully boosted exhumer. there would not really be a reason to ever use a barge/exhumer again. this is why mining drones will remain unboosted not to break the mining barge/exhumers usability.
Mole Guy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2016-10-16 19:19:28 UTC
what about mining boosts and those belts that are 1300km wide?

some of the roids are 100km apart which means we will have to boost a miner and they warp to it.
on the drone miners, especially the rorqual, we siege and strip a roid, then wait 5 minutes to move to a new roid to siege again.

any chance to shrink those fields since we dont have system wide boosts anymore?
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#198 - 2016-10-17 09:54:30 UTC
perfect for rolling frigate holes?
Cade Windstalker
#199 - 2016-10-17 14:32:42 UTC
Echo Mande wrote:
Alana Packham wrote:
Fit anchors on mining command ships!

Which is precisely why I've suggested allowing the Orca (but not the Porpoise) to use the Industrial Cores, with slight modifications to their effects (half or less fuel usage, burst strength bonus and drone bonuses).

IMO the Porpoise is tailor made for mobile roaming ops (lowsec or with mining frigates), fill-and-go ops and low end operators without the skill to use the Orca. Using an Orca IMO means you've got a hauler alt available so the Orca can stay on station with the miners.


If that's your only reason for letting them use the Core then what you actually want is some kind of active anchor module that lets the ship become basically bump immune while it's cycling. No need to mess with the balance of the ships by giving it bonuses on top of that.
Chan'aar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#200 - 2016-10-17 17:12:09 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
If that's your only reason for letting them use the Core then what you actually want is some kind of active anchor module that lets the ship become basically bump immune while it's cycling. No need to mess with the balance of the ships by giving it bonuses on top of that.


Would be suitable, although I'm sure someone will be along to explain how it could be exploited.