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[November] Rorqual Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Cade Windstalker
#321 - 2016-10-17 19:02:50 UTC
Dina Datrader wrote:
RIP Rorqual.

I will be using mine purely as an additional JF to haul mining ships and ore once it comes out as that is about the only thing I like about this concept.

IMO I think you have considered the larger corps / alliances but forgotten about the smaller groups who don't have the same luxury as my miners do in a larger alliance.

If I do use it to boost , I most certainly will not be using the core. I have the luxury of a large alliance to back me up, but still most likely wouldn't arrive in time anyway. The PANIC button only delays the inevitable explosion.

I feel sorry for the smaller corps / alliances, it is them that will suffer the most from this change.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand that everything we fly should come with risk to which the rorq at present basically does not and I am all for it as far as it should have risk attached but you should have allowed cloaking with the core running or something IMO, I don't know, but as it is at the moment I feel the rorq is a sitting duck and feel the risk is not worth the reward..

Having said all that though, we will have to wait and see I guess, once it is released before I make any hard decisions.


It kind of sounds like the problem here is your allies and their response time, not the new Rorqual.

If there's one thing that the earlier discussion of outside the box Rorqual uses highlighted it's that this thing is only about 1B sitting in the belt after insurance, and it has about 50% of the DPS of a Carrier, 80% of the rep potential of a FAX, and 90% of the local tank with the Core active.

If that doesn't buy your mining fleet enough time to get rescued, especially when you throw the PANIC button on there, then your alliance is doing a *really* poor job of supporting its mining ops *or* you're mining at the arse end of your Alliance's space from where all the PvP pilots hang out.

In either case that isn't a failure of the new design, it's a problem with the risk mitigation of your organization, and no Rorqual buff is going to fix that.

Also at the end of the day there should be some question as to whether or not something like this is worthwhile. If it's absolutely and unquestionably worthwhile then something has gone wrong and it's probably overpowered. Where things are right now though I think your group should be able to make use of this in most cases, and if they can't the gap between a sieged Rorqual and an unsieged one or an Orca isn't so vast that you'll need to pack up shop and go home.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#322 - 2016-10-17 21:00:42 UTC
Good post, Cade.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

capitotutto Saken
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#323 - 2016-10-17 21:47:25 UTC
This new rorqual is the worst thing CCP has done since years.
I'm really thinking to sell my 4 Hulk toons and close my paid account.
I'd like to understand why this patch should be so profitable for just 4 5 biggest alliance and why CCP has to forget the rest of the players!!
For me it's just unbelivable.
small & medium size allies seems to be not so important for CCP!!
Then they cry if they loose online players....

CCP: do you want more active players? start with avoiding camper AFK cloacked ship..
It's a shame not able to play cause a player decide to be logged cloacked and AFK in your system.

do not say more isk more risk, cause you really know that If I made 10b a day mining with a rorqual but I loose 2 rorqual, I get a positive balance of 4b but my corp will not like too much the new killboard and I will be kicked off.
So people who says' more isk more risk' just ignore ns living.

Ok, you want rorqual to be on grid (and against now, means 90% of player will lose 90% of their actaul boost time) but having the rorqual stopped in belt is so stupid.
I just imagine how many bomber squad will hit rorqual just when panic button will ends or how many bubble you could find all around you.
and then? how to save your rorqual?

Do not tell me 'your ally has all times needed to create a defense fleet' cause this idea worth just for big allies who has pvp fleet of 100 200 people.
This patch means that all allies without a big pvp fleet, couldn't use Rorqual.
I'm so disappointed, this is not acceptable.
Strong will become strongest, weak will become weakest

Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#324 - 2016-10-17 23:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Lord Trump
capitotutto Saken wrote:
This new rorqual is the worst thing CCP has done since years.
I'm really thinking to sell my 4 Hulk toons and close my paid account.
I'd like to understand why this patch should be so profitable for just 4 5 biggest alliance and why CCP has to forget the rest of the players!!
For me it's just unbelivable.
small & medium size allies seems to be not so important for CCP!!
Then they cry if they loose online players....

CCP: do you want more active players? start with avoiding camper AFK cloacked ship..
It's a shame not able to play cause a player decide to be logged cloacked and AFK in your system.

do not say more isk more risk, cause you really know that If I made 10b a day mining with a rorqual but I loose 2 rorqual, I get a positive balance of 4b but my corp will not like too much the new killboard and I will be kicked off.
So people who says' more isk more risk' just ignore ns living.

Ok, you want rorqual to be on grid (and against now, means 90% of player will lose 90% of their actaul boost time) but having the rorqual stopped in belt is so stupid.
I just imagine how many bomber squad will hit rorqual just when panic button will ends or how many bubble you could find all around you.
and then? how to save your rorqual?

Do not tell me 'your ally has all times needed to create a defense fleet' cause this idea worth just for big allies who has pvp fleet of 100 200 people.
This patch means that all allies without a big pvp fleet, couldn't use Rorqual.
I'm so disappointed, this is not acceptable.
Strong will become strongest, weak will become weakest


1. No one cares that you have a paid account. Just because you pay for subscription does not entitle you to a game you like.
2. This is not the AFK cloaking thread. I'd also like to see the module that prevents you from undocking while someone is cloaked AFK. I don't particularly like that the camper can increase risk for you while not recieving any in return, but it doesn't keep you from playing.
3. Your corp will kick you because you lost ships? I advise you to find a better corp. I can't imagine having any fun in a corp that obsessed with killboards.
4. What exactly do you mean that 90% of your allies lose 90% of their boost time? Just put them in the same ore anom/belt. Enough rocks for everyone. There's also no reason you have to siege your rorqual, it still gives the best boosts in the game while retaining mobility.
5. OK, so what about ratting in carriers? I wouldn't want to rat in a carrier without some sort of defense fleet? Should I go whine to CCP about how it's not fair and muh ticks and I should be able to rat in perfect safety? Why do you think it's CCP's job to defend your Rorqual? (which does 2000DPS and can tank around 50000DPS with blue pill+links)

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Cade Windstalker
#325 - 2016-10-18 01:43:17 UTC
capitotutto Saken wrote:
This new rorqual is the worst thing CCP has done since years.
I'm really thinking to sell my 4 Hulk toons and close my paid account.
I'd like to understand why this patch should be so profitable for just 4 5 biggest alliance and why CCP has to forget the rest of the players!!
For me it's just unbelivable.
small & medium size allies seems to be not so important for CCP!!
Then they cry if they loose online players....

CCP: do you want more active players? start with avoiding camper AFK cloacked ship..
It's a shame not able to play cause a player decide to be logged cloacked and AFK in your system.


These Rorqual changes actually do a pretty good job of mitigating the potential impact of AFK cloakies. A mining fleet can't quite take on a cap drop, but it can probably defend from a Black Ops drop at least enough to make the droppers think twice about whether or not they want to engage.

capitotutto Saken wrote:
do not say more isk more risk, cause you really know that If I made 10b a day mining with a rorqual but I loose 2 rorqual, I get a positive balance of 4b but my corp will not like too much the new killboard and I will be kicked off.
So people who says' more isk more risk' just ignore ns living.


This seems like more of a problem with your Alliance than with the Rorqual. Not only are they apparently not defending their mining ops, but they're getting angry when unsupported mining Ops lose ships.

That's a pretty good way to lose all of your industrialists.

If they really need a green killboard then go make "Government Industries" or something, throw all the miners in there, and presto, instant Killboard cleaning for the corp.

capitotutto Saken wrote:
Ok, you want rorqual to be on grid (and against now, means 90% of player will lose 90% of their actaul boost time) but having the rorqual stopped in belt is so stupid.
I just imagine how many bomber squad will hit rorqual just when panic button will ends or how many bubble you could find all around you.
and then? how to save your rorqual?


Some quick math says that you would need around 100 bombers to kill a Rorqual with a bombing run. Even with, say, 50 or so (so, half-ish with Bombs, the rest with Torps) you're going to have issues, and that assumes that the Rorqual doesn't just have a couple of smart-bombs fitted to nuke your bombs.

At the end of the day though that's called getting out played, though honestly if you failed to notice the ~50 people sat in local for 7 minutes and couldn't call for help you kinda deserve it.

capitotutto Saken wrote:
Do not tell me 'your ally has all times needed to create a defense fleet' cause this idea worth just for big allies who has pvp fleet of 100 200 people.
This patch means that all allies without a big pvp fleet, couldn't use Rorqual.
I'm so disappointed, this is not acceptable.
Strong will become strongest, weak will become weakest


If you don't have the people to defend your stuff then of course your risk goes up. This is Null, what do you expect?

Seriously though, you're going to have around 10 minutes to scramble something to help out the miners. That's a *lot* of time, especially with Cynos and Jump Bridges. If your Alliance can't manage to save a ship that has literally been sitting *invulnerable* then I'm not sure what to tell you. I certainly don't think you would be happy with any at all reasonably balanced version of a Rorqual that CCP might possibly present.
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#326 - 2016-10-19 08:56:56 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:


Well the thing would be that people already drop FAX on nodes and going PANIC with a bunch of skiffs or procurers around you means you force the enemy to bring a predictable and weak as all hell set of ships to handle it. Battle barges still do a startling amount of DPS in numbers and the FAX can rep like a monster right up until it has to hit the "no fun allowed" button.

It really wouldn't be remotely healthy for that aspect of the game.


Ed: No entosis for PANIC confirmed in tweetfleet. Woopwoop

Quick question. If CCP proposed blops with multimillion ehp, 1000 DPS and a 10 LY 90% reduction range (you could drop ratters in VFK from pure blind, lonetrek), would y'all be ok with that? P

Because that's what this is.


Man, you just don't stop with the A+ posting do you?

No, a paniced skiff or procurer cannot do a single point of damage, even with drones.
No, you cannot jump a rorqual into a cyno jammed system
No, you cannot quickly get your rorqual off grid if something in a drop goes bad
No, you do not need a weak setup of ships to handle drone swarms. A large smartbomb is a thing.

So no, your battle barge fleet will not work as you suggest, and no, a rorqual doesn't have real blops potential.
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2016-10-19 13:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: TigerXtrm
I am entirely confused by the Rorqual's drone bandwidth in relation to the new excavator drones.

Rorqual has a total of 125 Mbit/sec bandwidth.

Excavator drones, by all accounts, need 200Mbit/sec bandwidth.

So unless the currently numbers for excavator drones are completely made up I don't see that working.

Some more real numbers on these things would be nice.


Just checked the latest build on SISI and the numbers make sense now. Excavators need 25Mbit/sec and now move at a speed of 200m/s. So you can use 5 of them and they take 50 seconds to move to a roid 10km away. On average this will lower the projected 18400m3 per minute quite substantially (it's more in the area of 3000 - 6000m3 per minute if you factor in travel time) but that's still more than triple what a boosted Hulk can pull in.

So overall I'm quite happy. Looks good!

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My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#328 - 2016-10-19 19:56:35 UTC
Have we gotten any final stats on the excavator drones yet?
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#329 - 2016-10-19 20:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
TigerXtrm wrote:
I am entirely confused by the Rorqual's drone bandwidth in relation to the new excavator drones.

Rorqual has a total of 125 Mbit/sec bandwidth.

Excavator drones, by all accounts, need 200Mbit/sec bandwidth.

So unless the currently numbers for excavator drones are completely made up I don't see that working.

Some more real numbers on these things would be nice.


Just checked the latest build on SISI and the numbers make sense now. Excavators need 25Mbit/sec and now move at a speed of 200m/s. So you can use 5 of them and they take 50 seconds to move to a roid 10km away. On average this will lower the projected 18400m3 per minute quite substantially (it's more in the area of 3000 - 6000m3 per minute if you factor in travel time) but that's still more than triple what a boosted Hulk can pull in.

So overall I'm quite happy. Looks good!


The 18400 number is a product of someone not having access to a functional calculator. That number was provided when excavators still had 400m3/60s base, which put them at 18000 with all skills level 5 on a t2 indy core rorqual, and without the effect of mining drone specialization, which is confirmed to affect excavators.

With the new mining volume of 325m3/90s on the excavator, I can't find any combination that comes anywhere close to 18000. As for travel time, you are forgetting to factor in drone navigation skills, which put the excavators to 278m/s, the industrial core which grants up to 30% increase to speed, putting your travel time to a 10km roid at 55 seconds, round trip, not 50seconds one way.

Let's suppose for a moment that the rorq does actually have 18400m3/60s, that'd put you at 55seconds flight time, 60sec yield time, and 5 seconds of mining drones being mining drones (sitting still and doing nothing), we're looking at 9200m3/minute on a 10km roid, the equalization point with a hulk is actually quite a bit further out.,
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#330 - 2016-10-19 22:09:35 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
I am entirely confused by the Rorqual's drone bandwidth in relation to the new excavator drones.

Rorqual has a total of 125 Mbit/sec bandwidth.

Excavator drones, by all accounts, need 200Mbit/sec bandwidth.

So unless the currently numbers for excavator drones are completely made up I don't see that working.

Some more real numbers on these things would be nice.


Just checked the latest build on SISI and the numbers make sense now. Excavators need 25Mbit/sec and now move at a speed of 200m/s. So you can use 5 of them and they take 50 seconds to move to a roid 10km away. On average this will lower the projected 18400m3 per minute quite substantially (it's more in the area of 3000 - 6000m3 per minute if you factor in travel time) but that's still more than triple what a boosted Hulk can pull in.

So overall I'm quite happy. Looks good!


The 18400 number is a product of someone not having access to a functional calculator. That number was provided when excavators still had 400m3/60s base, which put them at 18000 with all skills level 5 on a t2 indy core rorqual, and without the effect of mining drone specialization, which is confirmed to affect excavators.

With the new mining volume of 325m3/90s on the excavator, I can't find any combination that comes anywhere close to 18000. As for travel time, you are forgetting to factor in drone navigation skills, which put the excavators to 278m/s, the industrial core which grants up to 30% increase to speed, putting your travel time to a 10km roid at 55 seconds, round trip, not 50seconds one way.

Let's suppose for a moment that the rorq does actually have 18400m3/60s, that'd put you at 55seconds flight time, 60sec yield time, and 5 seconds of mining drones being mining drones (sitting still and doing nothing), we're looking at 9200m3/minute on a 10km roid, the equalization point with a hulk is actually quite a bit further out.,



I have no problem with 9200m3/min :D

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

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FT Cold
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#331 - 2016-10-20 00:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Cold
Rowells wrote:
Have we gotten any final stats on the excavator drones yet?


Current test server stats are:

The excavator ice harvesting drone has a base velocity of 100m/s and an activation time of 225s and a volume of 1km3.

The excavator mining drone has a base velocity of 200m/s, an activation time of 90s and the base mining volume is 325m3.

Both take 25mb and seem to cost about 100m worth of material each with un-researched BPs, not counting the cost of the BP.
FT Cold
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#332 - 2016-10-20 01:08:23 UTC
Arronicus wrote:


The 18400 number is a product of someone not having access to a functional calculator. That number was provided when excavators still had 400m3/60s base, which put them at 18000 with all skills level 5 on a t2 indy core rorqual, and without the effect of mining drone specialization, which is confirmed to affect excavators.

With the new mining volume of 325m3/90s on the excavator, I can't find any combination that comes anywhere close to 18000. As for travel time, you are forgetting to factor in drone navigation skills, which put the excavators to 278m/s, the industrial core which grants up to 30% increase to speed, putting your travel time to a 10km roid at 55 seconds, round trip, not 50seconds one way.

Let's suppose for a moment that the rorq does actually have 18400m3/60s, that'd put you at 55seconds flight time, 60sec yield time, and 5 seconds of mining drones being mining drones (sitting still and doing nothing), we're looking at 9200m3/minute on a 10km roid, the equalization point with a hulk is actually quite a bit further out.,


Only thing I can think of is that the industrial core modifier is applied multiplicatively with the other modifiers. If you do the math that way it looks like this:
Drone interfacing: 50% yield bonus
Mining drones: 25% yield bonus
Rorqual skill bonus: 50%
Mining drone specialization: 10%
2x Capital drone mining augmenter II and 1x capital drone mining augmenter I (which as of last check aren't stacking penalized) 15%x2+10%= 40%
Excavator yield: 325m3 per 90s
Which leaves us with the following for raw yield per min: (1+.5+.25+.5+.1+.4)x(325x5)x(60/90)=2979.166...m3/min.
If the the industrial core's bonus is multiplicative with this final value, rather than additive, it will be 17875m3/min. If it's additive the first parenthesis simply gets +5 and the per min yield becomes about 8400m3/sec.

As for travel times, in the case that the core is multiplicative I'm getting speeds at about 495m/s with 2x drone navigation computer IIs, which is pretty acceptable given it's 90s mining time. Just a little rough math, again, assuming the industry core multiplicative bonus gives me about 9.5km3/min on a roid 20km, 12km3/min on a roid 10k away, and 14.5km3/min at 5km. Those are pretty respectable yields still and you could always put on a prop mod now that cap prop mods are available to periodically re-position.

Grookshank
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#333 - 2016-10-20 08:53:48 UTC
Quote:
reduced mass (allowing the Rorqual to travel through the same wormholes as Freighters)


Can we please have clarification on this: will the Rorqual be able to enter Thera or will it be denied by a "no capital" rule?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#334 - 2016-10-20 11:54:29 UTC
FT Cold wrote:
Arronicus wrote:


The 18400 number is a product of someone not having access to a functional calculator. That number was provided when excavators still had 400m3/60s base, which put them at 18000 with all skills level 5 on a t2 indy core rorqual, and without the effect of mining drone specialization, which is confirmed to affect excavators.

With the new mining volume of 325m3/90s on the excavator, I can't find any combination that comes anywhere close to 18000. As for travel time, you are forgetting to factor in drone navigation skills, which put the excavators to 278m/s, the industrial core which grants up to 30% increase to speed, putting your travel time to a 10km roid at 55 seconds, round trip, not 50seconds one way.

Let's suppose for a moment that the rorq does actually have 18400m3/60s, that'd put you at 55seconds flight time, 60sec yield time, and 5 seconds of mining drones being mining drones (sitting still and doing nothing), we're looking at 9200m3/minute on a 10km roid, the equalization point with a hulk is actually quite a bit further out.,


Only thing I can think of is that the industrial core modifier is applied multiplicatively with the other modifiers. If you do the math that way it looks like this:
Drone interfacing: 50% yield bonus
Mining drones: 25% yield bonus
Rorqual skill bonus: 50%
Mining drone specialization: 10%
2x Capital drone mining augmenter II and 1x capital drone mining augmenter I (which as of last check aren't stacking penalized) 15%x2+10%= 40%
Excavator yield: 325m3 per 90s
Which leaves us with the following for raw yield per min: (1+.5+.25+.5+.1+.4)x(325x5)x(60/90)=2979.166...m3/min.
If the the industrial core's bonus is multiplicative with this final value, rather than additive, it will be 17875m3/min. If it's additive the first parenthesis simply gets +5 and the per min yield becomes about 8400m3/sec.

As for travel times, in the case that the core is multiplicative I'm getting speeds at about 495m/s with 2x drone navigation computer IIs, which is pretty acceptable given it's 90s mining time. Just a little rough math, again, assuming the industry core multiplicative bonus gives me about 9.5km3/min on a roid 20km, 12km3/min on a roid 10k away, and 14.5km3/min at 5km. Those are pretty respectable yields still and you could always put on a prop mod now that cap prop mods are available to periodically re-position.




Uh, all modifiers multiply. not add. That's how things work in eve. (only place they add, is when you get a skill bonus. And that's just to work out the size of the bonus. so a skill with a 5% bonus per level is a 25% bonus. but that gets multiplied in with the others.)

so it's 1*1.5*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.4 or 4.33, rather than the 2.75 you get by adding them.

So the core is an an additional *6 on top of that. (500% bonus = *6 multiplier)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#335 - 2016-10-20 12:15:25 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
FT Cold wrote:
Arronicus wrote:


The 18400 number is a product of someone not having access to a functional calculator. That number was provided when excavators still had 400m3/60s base, which put them at 18000 with all skills level 5 on a t2 indy core rorqual, and without the effect of mining drone specialization, which is confirmed to affect excavators.

With the new mining volume of 325m3/90s on the excavator, I can't find any combination that comes anywhere close to 18000. As for travel time, you are forgetting to factor in drone navigation skills, which put the excavators to 278m/s, the industrial core which grants up to 30% increase to speed, putting your travel time to a 10km roid at 55 seconds, round trip, not 50seconds one way.

Let's suppose for a moment that the rorq does actually have 18400m3/60s, that'd put you at 55seconds flight time, 60sec yield time, and 5 seconds of mining drones being mining drones (sitting still and doing nothing), we're looking at 9200m3/minute on a 10km roid, the equalization point with a hulk is actually quite a bit further out.,


Only thing I can think of is that the industrial core modifier is applied multiplicatively with the other modifiers. If you do the math that way it looks like this:
Drone interfacing: 50% yield bonus
Mining drones: 25% yield bonus
Rorqual skill bonus: 50%
Mining drone specialization: 10%
2x Capital drone mining augmenter II and 1x capital drone mining augmenter I (which as of last check aren't stacking penalized) 15%x2+10%= 40%
Excavator yield: 325m3 per 90s
Which leaves us with the following for raw yield per min: (1+.5+.25+.5+.1+.4)x(325x5)x(60/90)=2979.166...m3/min.
If the the industrial core's bonus is multiplicative with this final value, rather than additive, it will be 17875m3/min. If it's additive the first parenthesis simply gets +5 and the per min yield becomes about 8400m3/sec.

As for travel times, in the case that the core is multiplicative I'm getting speeds at about 495m/s with 2x drone navigation computer IIs, which is pretty acceptable given it's 90s mining time. Just a little rough math, again, assuming the industry core multiplicative bonus gives me about 9.5km3/min on a roid 20km, 12km3/min on a roid 10k away, and 14.5km3/min at 5km. Those are pretty respectable yields still and you could always put on a prop mod now that cap prop mods are available to periodically re-position.




Uh, all modifiers multiply. not add. That's how things work in eve. (only place they add, is when you get a skill bonus. And that's just to work out the size of the bonus. so a skill with a 5% bonus per level is a 25% bonus. but that gets multiplied in with the others.)

so it's 1*1.5*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.4 or 4.33, rather than the 2.75 you get by adding them.

So the core is an an additional *6 on top of that. (500% bonus = *6 multiplier)

Your math feels a bit off too...
325(2/3)=216.67m3/min
*5 drones=1083.35m3/min
*your 4.33 multiplier=4690.91m3/min
*6=28145.46m3/min which is way above the projected theoretical max yield of 18400m3/min, which doesn't make sense since they changed the drones to take longer to mine less. I'm not unhappy about that amount, but it seems too high.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#336 - 2016-10-20 17:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
FT Cold wrote:
Arronicus wrote:


The 18400 number is a product of someone not having access to a functional calculator. That number was provided when excavators still had 400m3/60s base, which put them at 18000 with all skills level 5 on a t2 indy core rorqual, and without the effect of mining drone specialization, which is confirmed to affect excavators.

With the new mining volume of 325m3/90s on the excavator, I can't find any combination that comes anywhere close to 18000. As for travel time, you are forgetting to factor in drone navigation skills, which put the excavators to 278m/s, the industrial core which grants up to 30% increase to speed, putting your travel time to a 10km roid at 55 seconds, round trip, not 50seconds one way.

Let's suppose for a moment that the rorq does actually have 18400m3/60s, that'd put you at 55seconds flight time, 60sec yield time, and 5 seconds of mining drones being mining drones (sitting still and doing nothing), we're looking at 9200m3/minute on a 10km roid, the equalization point with a hulk is actually quite a bit further out.,


Only thing I can think of is that the industrial core modifier is applied multiplicatively with the other modifiers. If you do the math that way it looks like this:
Drone interfacing: 50% yield bonus
Mining drones: 25% yield bonus
Rorqual skill bonus: 50%
Mining drone specialization: 10%
2x Capital drone mining augmenter II and 1x capital drone mining augmenter I (which as of last check aren't stacking penalized) 15%x2+10%= 40%
Excavator yield: 325m3 per 90s
Which leaves us with the following for raw yield per min: (1+.5+.25+.5+.1+.4)x(325x5)x(60/90)=2979.166...m3/min.
If the the industrial core's bonus is multiplicative with this final value, rather than additive, it will be 17875m3/min. If it's additive the first parenthesis simply gets +5 and the per min yield becomes about 8400m3/sec.

As for travel times, in the case that the core is multiplicative I'm getting speeds at about 495m/s with 2x drone navigation computer IIs, which is pretty acceptable given it's 90s mining time. Just a little rough math, again, assuming the industry core multiplicative bonus gives me about 9.5km3/min on a roid 20km, 12km3/min on a roid 10k away, and 14.5km3/min at 5km. Those are pretty respectable yields still and you could always put on a prop mod now that cap prop mods are available to periodically re-position.




Uh, all modifiers multiply. not add. That's how things work in eve. (only place they add, is when you get a skill bonus. And that's just to work out the size of the bonus. so a skill with a 5% bonus per level is a 25% bonus. but that gets multiplied in with the others.)

so it's 1*1.5*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.4 or 4.33, rather than the 2.75 you get by adding them.

So the core is an an additional *6 on top of that. (500% bonus = *6 multiplier)

Your math feels a bit off too...
325(2/3)=216.67m3/min
*5 drones=1083.35m3/min
*your 4.33 multiplier=4690.91m3/min
*6=28145.46m3/min which is way above the projected theoretical max yield of 18400m3/min, which doesn't make sense since they changed the drones to take longer to mine less. I'm not unhappy about that amount, but it seems too high.



That's exactly my point, the theoretical max yield was never accurate to begin with. With ship fittings alone and no skills, you got way more than it.

Is also worth noting excavator mining drones are going to be stupidly expensive
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#337 - 2016-10-20 18:43:10 UTC
FT Cold wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Have we gotten any final stats on the excavator drones yet?


Current test server stats are:

The excavator ice harvesting drone has a base velocity of 100m/s and an activation time of 225s and a volume of 1km3.

The excavator mining drone has a base velocity of 200m/s, an activation time of 90s and the base mining volume is 325m3.

Both take 25mb and seem to cost about 100m worth of material each with un-researched BPs, not counting the cost of the BP.

Yeah, I think they've been on the server for quite a bit, but I can't remember if they've changed at all or are just place holders.
FT Cold
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#338 - 2016-10-20 19:30:44 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:


Uh, all modifiers multiply. not add. That's how things work in eve. (only place they add, is when you get a skill bonus. And that's just to work out the size of the bonus. so a skill with a 5% bonus per level is a 25% bonus. but that gets multiplied in with the others.)

so it's 1*1.5*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.4 or 4.33, rather than the 2.75 you get by adding them.

So the core is an an additional *6 on top of that. (500% bonus = *6 multiplier)


Yup I was wrong I checked. Kind of weird how the numbers coincidentally ended up being so close to CCPs original values.
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#339 - 2016-10-20 20:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Rowells wrote:
FT Cold wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Have we gotten any final stats on the excavator drones yet?


Current test server stats are:

The excavator ice harvesting drone has a base velocity of 100m/s and an activation time of 225s and a volume of 1km3.

The excavator mining drone has a base velocity of 200m/s, an activation time of 90s and the base mining volume is 325m3.

Both take 25mb and seem to cost about 100m worth of material each with un-researched BPs, not counting the cost of the BP.

Yeah, I think they've been on the server for quite a bit, but I can't remember if they've changed at all or are just place holders.


They changed. Up until a couple days ago, ore was 400m3/60s/100m/s. Now they're 325m3/90s/200m/s.

Amusingly enough, CCP also made a typo on the stats on the mining drone specialization skillbook, so now a bunch of spergs on reddit are convinced that their excavators are going to move at approx. 2.1km/s without nav comps, despite it being a very obvious typo.


FT Cold wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:


Uh, all modifiers multiply. not add. That's how things work in eve. (only place they add, is when you get a skill bonus. And that's just to work out the size of the bonus. so a skill with a 5% bonus per level is a 25% bonus. but that gets multiplied in with the others.)

so it's 1*1.5*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.4 or 4.33, rather than the 2.75 you get by adding them.

So the core is an an additional *6 on top of that. (500% bonus = *6 multiplier)


Yup I was wrong I checked. Kind of weird how the numbers coincidentally ended up being so close to CCPs original values.


And yet not the same. Would love to have a member of CCP show where the 18,400 came from lol
Bobb Bobbington
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#340 - 2016-10-21 00:04:51 UTC
How much heavy water does the PANIC button consume?

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.