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[November] Rorqual Changes

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Author
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#261 - 2016-10-07 20:10:10 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
scenario:
we jump to a new system to ninja mine.
i have a rorqual, my friends are in a skiff.
before we jump, i put the skiff's in my SMB and they go in cloakies.
we get there, they try to switch ships...but that doesnt work. now, we have ships scattered about while they are in mining ships.

we get attacked, i PANIC, they are protected, but their cloakies (which are floating in space) get blown up.
its dumb to not be able to put any ship in the SMB IMO.

what do we do with the spare ship???

and trolls dont say "thats what you get for using the rorqual" or some bs like that.
or "its a designed feature/draw back"..


and 5 light years is beautiful.


Invulnerability is completely antithetical to the spirit of eve. Its also pretty dumb from a gamePLAY aspect.

Where's my rorqual frigate that I can go plow FW in and press PANIC to get 5 minute invulnerability if I do something stupid?

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

Ashranesh
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#262 - 2016-10-07 20:31:30 UTC
Industrial Core I:

Requires Industrial Reconfiguration skill level 1
Duration: 5 minutes
Consumption: 1000 units of Heavy Water
Enables Ore and Ice Compression

no body think this is to long, 5 min in 0.0 ?, you can put that at 2 or 3 min to give chance to put this big ass in safe place or a skill to reduce that cycle time at 2 or 3 min

or

Industrial Core II:

Requires Industrial Reconfiguration skill level 5
Duration: 5 minutes
Consumption: 1500 units of Heavy Water
Enables Ore and Ice Compression

redure the cicle time at the Industrial Core II at 2 or 3 min.

5 MIN is very long

sorry for my english OopsOopsOops

Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#263 - 2016-10-07 20:59:23 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:

Take anom ore sites as an example where CCP decided to reduce content by making it "easy" to find them. No more do you need a probe scanner, and the "aggravation" of getting your alt out or hiring someone else.

Probing the site down was never a real problem, for the miner. It was the miner's "invulnerability" from roaming gangs that lacked a prober themselves.

People who mine their own resources to make their own ships are not really a problem. They take pride in building things themselves and that's fine. They are generally highly inefficient. To make up the cost of the blueprints alone you need to be supplying a market of other players with goods. Mass producers are often purchasing at least a portion of the materials from others.

While the Rorqual will ideally spit out large amounts of ore into the economy, it is also its own mineral sink. These things will be blowing up, that's the whole idea. People will also build more for use and stockpiling than one per corporation as it is currently. This would ideally put pressure on the high ends it produces, as well as the Veld and Scordite markets in Empire. We'll see if it actually pans out that way, after the market settles from speculation spikes. It's also why it is important that these changes do not make it TOO safe to deploy.

There's also a number of ways to facilitate player interaction within a corporation. You are looking at it from a very narrow view of a "mining company". Eve corporations are more akin to Sci-Fi space mega-corps, delivering a wide range of end products to a market, with their own military to defend their holdings from rampant piracy and rival corporations.

Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#264 - 2016-10-07 23:24:14 UTC
HarlyQ wrote:
Tiberizzle wrote:
Everyone seems to be getting really excited about the theoretical yield of the rorqual but they're completely forgetting how bad drone mining mechanics are.

#1. There isn't even a hot key to make the mine, you have to use the context menu.

#2. The drone goes out, mines exactly 1 cycle and then returns with its mining amount.

The excavator drones exist on tranquility right now and they MWD at 100m/s. That's like a 10+ minute round trip to some of the ore site asteroids even with drone navigation comps and skills. The base speed needs to be an order of magnitude higher, or these things will spend over 90% of their time in transit and a sieged rorqual will be considerably worse than a barely trained barge in reality. The other option is that the Rorqual, a capital ship with **** for agility and warp speed that must additionally exit siege, rewarps for basically every individual asteroid it mines, and spends 90%+ of its time in warp... and is considerably worse than a barely trained barge in reality. Even if the drones are much quicker than the preliminary stats imply they will be, that theoretical yield will translate into a real yield of 25-50%, if that, and they'll be barely worth using as an upgrade over a Hulk.

With a theoretical yield of 18400m^3/minute and the speed as they exist on tranquility currently, for an asteroid 40,000m away (i.e. roughly the range something like half of the rocks in a colossal are from the warpin), it will take the drone 800 seconds (13.3 minutes) to travel for every 60 seconds of mining, meaning its real yield is 6.976% of the theoretical 18400 or 1283m^3 per minute. With drone navigation 5 and the MWD bonus from siege it will be 162.5m/s or 492s (8.2 minutes) of travel for 60 seconds of mining, or 10.8% efficiency / 1999m^3 per minute. That's like 20m isk/hr on spod, lol.

Put another way, a rookie ship with Miner II's jetcan mining (187m^3/min) would give an unsieged Rorqual (8.5% efficiency at 40km with 125m/s speed, of 3000m^3/min =257m^3/min) a good contest for most of an ore site after you factor in travel time if the base speed on tranquility is currently representative of final stats.
This just all this. Also the cyno should be allowed during panic.


Yes, all the above is completely accurate - but I believe we're all missing the point...

The Rorqual is NOT supposed to be a mining ship and replace a proper Barge!

It's: a Booster; a Compressor; a Hauler; a ship-carrier; a Defender; and it can also mine some.

There should be only between 1-3 Rorquals per belt (dependent on Boosting range) - and a whole slew of barges - because the above is indeed correct. I rather suspect that's why the drone speeds are as they are.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium

Mole Guy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#265 - 2016-10-08 04:15:01 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
scenario:
we jump to a new system to ninja mine.
i have a rorqual, my friends are in a skiff.
before we jump, i put the skiff's in my SMB and they go in cloakies.
we get there, they try to switch ships...but that doesnt work. now, we have ships scattered about while they are in mining ships.

we get attacked, i PANIC, they are protected, but their cloakies (which are floating in space) get blown up.
its dumb to not be able to put any ship in the SMB IMO.

what do we do with the spare ship???

and trolls dont say "thats what you get for using the rorqual" or some bs like that.
or "its a designed feature/draw back"..


and 5 light years is beautiful.


Invulnerability is completely antithetical to the spirit of eve. Its also pretty dumb from a gamePLAY aspect.

Where's my rorqual frigate that I can go plow FW in and press PANIC to get 5 minute invulnerability if I do something stupid?


im not asking for invulerability. thats being given. im talking about when people in the fleet come up to mine. i have their skiff in the SMB. for them to use their skiff, they have to leave their ship floating in space.

neither a dread (combat ship) nor carrier, orca nor bowhead have restrictions like this.
i can stick a shuttle in a dread or a bs. maybe a DST to get fuel when i run out from jumping around.
maybe limit dread to combat only and carriers to drone boats only. doesnt make sense.

im just saying you should be able to store the ship you fly to mine in the rorqual. make it limited to frigates and indy ships. that way they can fly a cloaky to the dig site, jump in a skiff and have their cloaky stored.
hard to abuse that.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#266 - 2016-10-08 05:09:34 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:

im just saying you should be able to store the ship you fly to mine in the rorqual. make it limited to frigates and indy ships. that way they can fly a cloaky to the dig site, jump in a skiff and have their cloaky stored.
hard to abuse that.

Use a cloaky venture or blockade runner instead. Or make use of the clone bay. Death clone over, mine, if hostiles show up store the barges and jump out. Who cares about the empty pods.

With the extra low and jump range its already treading close to a jump freighter. Don't want it stepping on its toes.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#267 - 2016-10-08 06:04:38 UTC
Marcus Tedric wrote:
I believe we're all missing the point...

The Rorqual is NOT supposed to be a mining ship and replace a proper Barge!

It's: a Booster; a Compressor; a Hauler; a ship-carrier; a Defender; and it can also mine some.

There should be only between 1-3 Rorquals per belt (dependent on Boosting range) - and a whole slew of barges - because the above is indeed correct. I rather suspect that's why the drone speeds are as they are.

Tiberizzle is very correct and the importance of it cannot be overstated. However, my view on this is completely opposite to yours.

It's the Orca that is the Industrial Command Ship. It should be the sole source of top end mining bursts, just as combat command ship bursts are the top end there. The Porpoise should, and for the most part does, fall in line with Command Destroyers.

The Rorqual is a capital. Capitals only get 2% combat bursts, right up to Titans. So should the Rorqual with no burst bonus from the core. At best, have the core push it up to be equal to the Orca. A Hulk with links mining Spod currently makes comparable income to an Ishtar. The Rorqual should be fielded as a capital mining ship and pull income in the ballpark of a ratting carrier. All of its other roles are just utility fillers.

I should want to deploy and siege my own Rorqual on the merit of its personal yield, no matter what else is already on field. Not another version of today's log in and look for alternative productive activities for my Rorq pilot, because someone else is already boosting.
Mole Guy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#268 - 2016-10-08 15:49:11 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
Marcus Tedric wrote:
I believe we're all missing the point...

The Rorqual is NOT supposed to be a mining ship and replace a proper Barge!

It's: a Booster; a Compressor; a Hauler; a ship-carrier; a Defender; and it can also mine some.

There should be only between 1-3 Rorquals per belt (dependent on Boosting range) - and a whole slew of barges - because the above is indeed correct. I rather suspect that's why the drone speeds are as they are.

Tiberizzle is very correct and the importance of it cannot be overstated. However, my view on this is completely opposite to yours.

It's the Orca that is the Industrial Command Ship. It should be the sole source of top end mining bursts, just as combat command ship bursts are the top end there. The Porpoise should, and for the most part does, fall in line with Command Destroyers.

The Rorqual is a capital. Capitals only get 2% combat bursts, right up to Titans. So should the Rorqual with no burst bonus from the core. At best, have the core push it up to be equal to the Orca. A Hulk with links mining Spod currently makes comparable income to an Ishtar. The Rorqual should be fielded as a capital mining ship and pull income in the ballpark of a ratting carrier. All of its other roles are just utility fillers.

I should want to deploy and siege my own Rorqual on the merit of its personal yield, no matter what else is already on field. Not another version of today's log in and look for alternative productive activities for my Rorq pilot, because someone else is already boosting.


sorry, but the orca is almost as expensive as a carrier and should make money comparable since they are both low tier capitals. the rorqual is twice what a carrier is and should make more. its sole purpose is to make isk. carrier is for combat and but be used to make isk. the rorqual is more but can be used to clear sanctums (ive done it. put a carrier in one and a rorqual in the other back before fighter changes). 1kdps rorqual wasnt anything to sneaze on. but a sieged rorqual can double that.
just watch local and intel channels. however, in its native habitat, it should way out do a carrier. thing about a ratting carrier, santums despawn and respawn at set intervals. mining sites to not. you can say itll crank out 1.7B if mining dark glitter continuously for an hour, but i think it would be gone before that and the rorqual has to siege to do it. in a good site, you should be able to cut a bunch of rock, then move and siege again. no need to sit and let the drones fly 40k as it was mentioned earlier.

i just feel they are different, the 2 cant be compared isk wise. ones is a burst one can be constant.
when it can mine gas and whatnot, ill be happy.

we need gas compression. buy gas cylinders as an ingredient. compress into cylinders. store cylinders.
when used, it goes back from full cylinder to empty. reuse em. maybe give a life span like on real gas cylinders.
faciliam
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2016-10-08 19:03:45 UTC
Getting rid of system wide boosting is a bad idea ...its the backbone of eve industry .

Because having a Rorqual on grid is even worse .

There will be rorqual killing gangs, losses will be great people will park them up ...everyone knows this.

Stop bashing miners with dumb changes ..like ore holds and removing a laser of the hulk and give the lone miner some new ships so he can compete if he is not getting boosted.

Your trying to kill the game fozzie...sure you don't work for roberts?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#270 - 2016-10-08 20:34:51 UTC
faciliam wrote:
Getting rid of system wide boosting is a bad idea ...its the backbone of eve industry .

Because having a Rorqual on grid is even worse .

There will be rorqual killing gangs, losses will be great people will park them up ...everyone knows this.

Stop bashing miners with dumb changes ..like ore holds and removing a laser of the hulk and give the lone miner some new ships so he can compete if he is not getting boosted.

Your trying to kill the game fozzie...sure you don't work for roberts?



Uh, if you have a ship that can compete with a boosted ship, why would you use boosted ships?

(aside from that, I know people positively salivating over the combat potential of Rorqs)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#271 - 2016-10-08 23:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vald Tegor
Mole Guy wrote:

sorry, but the orca is almost as expensive as a carrier and should make money comparable since they are both low tier capitals. the rorqual is twice what a carrier is and should make more. its sole purpose is to make isk. carrier is for combat and but be used to make isk. the rorqual is more but can be used to clear sanctums (ive done it. put a carrier in one and a rorqual in the other back before fighter changes). 1kdps rorqual wasnt anything to sneaze on. but a sieged rorqual can double that.
just watch local and intel channels. however, in its native habitat, it should way out do a carrier. thing about a ratting carrier, santums despawn and respawn at set intervals. mining sites to not. you can say itll crank out 1.7B if mining dark glitter continuously for an hour, but i think it would be gone before that and the rorqual has to siege to do it. in a good site, you should be able to cut a bunch of rock, then move and siege again. no need to sit and let the drones fly 40k as it was mentioned earlier.

i just feel they are different, the 2 cant be compared isk wise. ones is a burst one can be constant.
when it can mine gas and whatnot, ill be happy.

we need gas compression. buy gas cylinders as an ingredient. compress into cylinders. store cylinders.
when used, it goes back from full cylinder to empty. reuse em. maybe give a life span like on real gas cylinders.

Actually, the Orca is half the build cost of a Carrier and double a Command Ship. If mineral prices come down, it will actually get closer to the command ship, which relies on T2 components for most of its cost. The Carrier is also significantly more expensive to fit than an Orca, which uses subcapital modules. In fact, by the time you fit the Carrier and the Rorqual, their cost is relatively close. The Rorqual also insures much better. Not that price point should be indicative of income potential. Where the Orca's personal yield should fit in the scheme of things is better reserved for its own thread, but it should certainly be in line as a mining ship of it's own. Just as combat command ships do non trivial amounts of damage.

I was referring more to the broad class of ship and a general ballpark of income. I was also referring to comparing the Rorqual and Carrier in sustained scenarios. Mining Spod, which there is ample supply of for average income, vs a carrier chaining havens. I have limited experience ice mining so can't really speak to the burst potential there. But you need to mine out everything in the ice belt if you actually want it to respawn(afer the timer). Spending a bit of time cherry picking when it's up, assuming you get there first, without considering scouting and setup time, can hardly be considered any kind of income baseline. Ice is probably better looked at in terms of the total m3 to roll the belt, and how the ship performs compared to the other ice mining options in clear speed. Otherwise, It's the same idea as taking the highest potential drop from a 10/10 and saying "well i can run one in 10 minutes, so I can earn 10 billion an hour".

One thing that would certainly be a sad state of affairs, is if the Rorqual ended up with higher effective (not theoretical) income potential chaining combat anomalies than it did mining. This is a big part of the reason I would like to see faster drones that mined less ludicrous amounts of ore per cycle.

As for gas and mercoxit, I really don't mind there being a niche mining activity that is better done with more appropriate ships. Where it poses an issue is having to bring a boosting ship that can't mine gas, to help mine gas. The Porpoise sounds like a more appropriate ship for that to me, though. It would be nice to see it able to fit two bonused gas harvesters along with links. Otherwise, with a small number of miners, you're better off with a 5 harverster 1 link Ferox. Such niche specializations is also another reason to have less significant discrepancies between the effective strength of mining bursts among the ship classes.
TomyLobo
Negative Density
D3nse Matter
#272 - 2016-10-09 00:19:41 UTC
Might be a good time to rid of the industrial core and make the bonuses passive cause I still can't get my head around why the rorqual needs to lock itself in place to do anything, especially to mine. Dreads and FAXs provide big enough bonuses to warrant the immobility but the rorqual doesn't even come close to being such a force multiplier, even in terms of mining, after this patch.

If PANIC mode was the only reason a Rorqual had to stay immobile for 10-15 mins then I can understand that in the grand scheme of things. Basically, the rorqual will be a sort of guardian/protector for mining vessels in hostile space but to require that the Rorqual to still stay locked down to perform it's activities at reasonable speeds is ridiculous.



Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2016-10-09 07:05:11 UTC
faciliam wrote:
Getting rid of system wide boosting is a bad idea ...its the backbone of eve industry .

Because having a Rorqual on grid is even worse .

There will be rorqual killing gangs, losses will be great people will park them up ...everyone knows this.

Stop bashing miners with dumb changes ..like ore holds and removing a laser of the hulk and give the lone miner some new ships so he can compete if he is not getting boosted.

Your trying to kill the game fozzie...sure you don't work for roberts?
Well, align the Roq to a savety and let a small ship with lots of webs circle it. Whenever something comes up insta warp out. There ar options, you just have to find them.

What the Roq need is a module to push combat drones like the Panic module. This will give others then Sov miners a chance against gangs when using Skiffs. Just boosting the combat qualities of the Roq is useless in a fleet.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#274 - 2016-10-09 08:01:05 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Steve Ronuken wrote:
faciliam wrote:
Getting rid of system wide boosting is a bad idea ...its the backbone of eve industry .

Because having a Rorqual on grid is even worse .

There will be rorqual killing gangs, losses will be great people will park them up ...everyone knows this.

Stop bashing miners with dumb changes ..like ore holds and removing a laser of the hulk and give the lone miner some new ships so he can compete if he is not getting boosted.

Your trying to kill the game fozzie...sure you don't work for roberts?



Uh, if you have a ship that can compete with a boosted ship, why would you use boosted ships?

(aside from that, I know people positively salivating over the combat potential of Rorqs)


for double the bonus obviously. And you're CSM?......

Industry ships shouldn't have combat potential even approaching a true military ship design. That's just dumb on it's face.

How about you hire some mercs to protect you, or mine in safer space? No, that's too difficult, lets whine until CCP gives us OP industrial ships.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#275 - 2016-10-09 08:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Vald Tegor wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:

Take anom ore sites as an example where CCP decided to reduce content by making it "easy" to find them. No more do you need a probe scanner, and the "aggravation" of getting your alt out or hiring someone else.

Probing the site down was never a real problem, for the miner. It was the miner's "invulnerability" from roaming gangs that lacked a prober themselves.


People who mine their own resources to make their own ships are not really a problem. They take pride in building things themselves and that's fine. They are generally highly inefficient. To make up the cost of the blueprints alone you need to be supplying a market of other players with goods. Mass producers are often purchasing at least a portion of the materials from others.

While the Rorqual will ideally spit out large amounts of ore into the economy, it is also its own mineral sink. These things will be blowing up, that's the whole idea. People will also build more for use and stockpiling than one per corporation as it is currently. This would ideally put pressure on the high ends it produces, as well as the Veld and Scordite markets in Empire. We'll see if it actually pans out that way, after the market settles from speculation spikes. It's also why it is important that these changes do not make it TOO safe to deploy.

There's also a number of ways to facilitate player interaction within a corporation. You are looking at it from a very narrow view of a "mining company". Eve corporations are more akin to Sci-Fi space mega-corps, delivering a wide range of end products to a market, with their own military to defend their holdings from rampant piracy and rival corporations.



Gee, I think I found the problem, then. A probe ship should be part and parcel to any roam. More people necessary to play, more player generated content.

Eve should be an expansive universe. With its waypoint system of belts and moons and stations, its more like a fishbowl.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#276 - 2016-10-09 08:40:50 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Gee, I think I found the problem, then. A probe ship should be part and parcel to any roam. More people necessary to play, more player generated content.

Two guys roaming in cruisers should totally have to bring probes Roll

Anything they could possibly threaten in a mining operation would warp off grid when they see probes on dscan, before you can even initiate warp to the site. That does not "generate content".

You are looking for a problem where there isn't one. There's people who pay for wormhole connection bookmarks already, that connect desirable K-Space systems normally very distant from each other. Large alliances have teams of scouts doing this on a regular basis. Also, you may not be aware of the fact that larger roams that have a fleet commander do in fact bring combat probes. They are constantly used by the FC for warpins when bouncing around a grid.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#277 - 2016-10-09 09:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Vald Tegor wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
Gee, I think I found the problem, then. A probe ship should be part and parcel to any roam. More people necessary to play, more player generated content.

Two guys roaming in cruisers should totally have to bring probes Roll

Anything they could possibly threaten in a mining operation would warp off grid when they see probes on dscan, before you can even initiate warp to the site. That does not "generate content".

You are looking for a problem where there isn't one. There's people who pay for wormhole connection bookmarks already, that connect desirable K-Space systems normally very distant from each other. Large alliances have teams of scouts doing this on a regular basis. Also, you may not be aware of the fact that larger roams that have a fleet commander do in fact bring combat probes. They are constantly used by the FC for warpins when bouncing around a grid.


Anything they could possibly threaten in a mining operation would warp off grid when they see probes on dscan
, before you can even initiate warp to the site. That does not "generate content".

" warp off grid when they see probes on dscan, ."

"probes on dscan, "

Or you know, how they alraedy are aligned to warp off now, and do so the moment they see someone in system that could threaten them, or see them within 5-10AU on Dscan.

Your reasoning is fallacious. Probe or ship triggers it? Then it doesn't matter if probes required or not.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

FT Cold
No Vacancies
Wardec Mechanics
#278 - 2016-10-09 15:08:29 UTC
Anyone know if drone mining augmenter rigs will affect the new excavator drones?
TomyLobo
Negative Density
D3nse Matter
#279 - 2016-10-09 18:09:51 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
Gee, I think I found the problem, then. A probe ship should be part and parcel to any roam. More people necessary to play, more player generated content.

Two guys roaming in cruisers should totally have to bring probes Roll

Anything they could possibly threaten in a mining operation would warp off grid when they see probes on dscan, before you can even initiate warp to the site. That does not "generate content".

You are looking for a problem where there isn't one. There's people who pay for wormhole connection bookmarks already, that connect desirable K-Space systems normally very distant from each other. Large alliances have teams of scouts doing this on a regular basis. Also, you may not be aware of the fact that larger roams that have a fleet commander do in fact bring combat probes. They are constantly used by the FC for warpins when bouncing around a grid.

The sense of entitlement that some people have knows no bounds. So because you are roaming, kills should automatically fall on your lap? How about actually working for kills like most people do? Those who take their time to ensure they have the right comp of ships, monitor and track their targets aren't fools.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#280 - 2016-10-09 19:45:09 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:

Or you know, how they alraedy are aligned to warp off now, and do so the moment they see someone in system that could threaten them, or see them within 5-10AU on Dscan.

Your reasoning is fallacious. Probe or ship triggers it? Then it doesn't matter if probes required or not.

Have you actually tried mining aligned in a hulk before? Your ore hold fills up twice as often as you are allowed to jetcan. You mine sitting next to a freight container. An interceptor can easily jump into the system and warp to the anomaly before the hulk can align, depending on where in the system it is currently spawned.

TomyLobo wrote:

The sense of entitlement that some people have knows no bounds. So because you are roaming, kills should automatically fall on your lap? How about actually working for kills like most people do? Those who take their time to ensure they have the right comp of ships, monitor and track their targets aren't fools.

Hi Tomy,

I'm a miner. Nice to meet you. I don't think my operation should be able to completely ignore hostiles in our space, unless they bring a massive fleet that we're going to form for and engage before it gets to me anyway. Miners are not entitled to free security. That is why you have better yield and rare resources in dangerous space - because the activity is interruptible by definition. It's also why the yield increase should mostly come from personal capacity of the ships involved (and therefore at risk) rather than someone fielding a booster.