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Invulnerability is completely antithetical to the spirit of eve. Its also pretty dumb from a gamePLAY aspect.

Where's my rorqual frigate that I can go plow FW in and press PANIC to get 5 minute invulnerability if I do something stupid?

Probing the site down was never a real problem, for the miner. It was the miner's "invulnerability" from roaming gangs that lacked a prober themselves.

People who mine their own resources to make their own ships are not really a problem. They take pride in building things themselves and that's fine. They are generally highly inefficient. To make up the cost of the blueprints alone you need to be supplying a market of other players with goods. Mass producers are often purchasing at least a portion of the materials from others.

While the Rorqual will ideally spit out large amounts of ore into the economy, it is also its own mineral sink. These things will be blowing up, that's the whole idea. People will also build more for use and stockpiling than one per corporation as it is currently. This would ideally put pressure on the high ends it produces, as well as the Veld and Scordite markets in Empire. We'll see if it actually pans out that way, after the market settles from speculation spikes. It's also why it is important that these changes do not make it TOO safe to deploy.

There's also a number of ways to facilitate player interaction within a corporation. You are looking at it from a very narrow view of a "mining company". Eve corporations are more akin to Sci-Fi space mega-corps, delivering a wide range of end products to a market, with their own military to defend their holdings from rampant piracy and rival corporations.

im not asking for invulerability. thats being given. im talking about when people in the fleet come up to mine. i have their skiff in the SMB. for them to use their skiff, they have to leave their ship floating in space.

neither a dread (combat ship) nor carrier, orca nor bowhead have restrictions like this.
i can stick a shuttle in a dread or a bs. maybe a DST to get fuel when i run out from jumping around.
maybe limit dread to combat only and carriers to drone boats only. doesnt make sense.

im just saying you should be able to store the ship you fly to mine in the rorqual. make it limited to frigates and indy ships. that way they can fly a cloaky to the dig site, jump in a skiff and have their cloaky stored.
hard to abuse that.

Tiberizzle is very correct and the importance of it cannot be overstated. However, my view on this is completely opposite to yours.

It's the Orca that is the Industrial Command Ship. It should be the sole source of top end mining bursts, just as combat command ship bursts are the top end there. The Porpoise should, and for the most part does, fall in line with Command Destroyers.

The Rorqual is a capital. Capitals only get 2% combat bursts, right up to Titans. So should the Rorqual with no burst bonus from the core. At best, have the core push it up to be equal to the Orca. A Hulk with links mining Spod currently makes comparable income to an Ishtar. The Rorqual should be fielded as a capital mining ship and pull income in the ballpark of a ratting carrier. All of its other roles are just utility fillers.

I should want to deploy and siege my own Rorqual on the merit of its personal yield, no matter what else is already on field. Not another version of today's log in and look for alternative productive activities for my Rorq pilot, because someone else is already boosting.

Getting rid of system wide boosting is a bad idea ...its the backbone of eve industry .

Because having a Rorqual on grid is even worse .

There will be rorqual killing gangs, losses will be great people will park them up ...everyone knows this.

Stop bashing miners with dumb changes ..like ore holds and removing a laser of the hulk and give the lone miner some new ships so he can compete if he is not getting boosted.

Your trying to kill the game fozzie...sure you don't work for roberts?

Actually, the Orca is half the build cost of a Carrier and double a Command Ship. If mineral prices come down, it will actually get closer to the command ship, which relies on T2 components for most of its cost. The Carrier is also significantly more expensive to fit than an Orca, which uses subcapital modules. In fact, by the time you fit the Carrier and the Rorqual, their cost is relatively close. The Rorqual also insures much better. Not that price point should be indicative of income potential. Where the Orca's personal yield should fit in the scheme of things is better reserved for its own thread, but it should certainly be in line as a mining ship of it's own. Just as combat command ships do non trivial amounts of damage.

I was referring more to the broad class of ship and a general ballpark of income. I was also referring to comparing the Rorqual and Carrier in sustained scenarios. Mining Spod, which there is ample supply of for average income, vs a carrier chaining havens. I have limited experience ice mining so can't really speak to the burst potential there. But you need to mine out everything in the ice belt if you actually want it to respawn(afer the timer). Spending a bit of time cherry picking when it's up, assuming you get there first, without considering scouting and setup time, can hardly be considered any kind of income baseline. Ice is probably better looked at in terms of the total m3 to roll the belt, and how the ship performs compared to the other ice mining options in clear speed. Otherwise, It's the same idea as taking the highest potential drop from a 10/10 and saying "well i can run one in 10 minutes, so I can earn 10 billion an hour".

One thing that would certainly be a sad state of affairs, is if the Rorqual ended up with higher effective (not theoretical) income potential chaining combat anomalies than it did mining. This is a big part of the reason I would like to see faster drones that mined less ludicrous amounts of ore per cycle.

As for gas and mercoxit, I really don't mind there being a niche mining activity that is better done with more appropriate ships. Where it poses an issue is having to bring a boosting ship that can't mine gas, to help mine gas. The Porpoise sounds like a more appropriate ship for that to me, though. It would be nice to see it able to fit two bonused gas harvesters along with links. Otherwise, with a small number of miners, you're better off with a 5 harverster 1 link Ferox. Such niche specializations is also another reason to have less significant discrepancies between the effective strength of mining bursts among the ship classes.

Well, align the Roq to a savety and let a small ship with lots of webs circle it. Whenever something comes up insta warp out. There ar options, you just have to find them.

What the Roq need is a module to push combat drones like the Panic module. This will give others then Sov miners a chance against gangs when using Skiffs. Just boosting the combat qualities of the Roq is useless in a fleet.

Gee, I think I found the problem, then. A probe ship should be part and parcel to any roam. More people necessary to play, more player generated content.

Eve should be an expansive universe. With its waypoint system of belts and moons and stations, its more like a fishbowl.

Anything they could possibly threaten in a mining operation would warp off grid when they see probes on dscan, before you can even initiate warp to the site. That does not "generate content".

" warp off grid when they see probes on dscan, ."

"probes on dscan, "

Or you know, how they alraedy are aligned to warp off now, and do so the moment they see someone in system that could threaten them, or see them within 5-10AU on Dscan.

Your reasoning is fallacious. Probe or ship triggers it? Then it doesn't matter if probes required or not.

The sense of entitlement that some people have knows no bounds. So because you are roaming, kills should automatically fall on your lap? How about actually working for kills like most people do? Those who take their time to ensure they have the right comp of ships, monitor and track their targets aren't fools.