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Spying is like cancer (just venting my opinion).
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13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2016-10-04 06:03:12 UTC
InterStellar Architect wrote:
I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming.

I've participated in fleet fights where the fight did not happen because of spies.

Imagine a bunch of guys sitting down at a table playing poker. There are spectators in the background watching, and each competitor has a spy in the spectator area, reporting which cards the opponent has. This is like a perfect analogy to spies in Eve. Nobody would watch or be interested in the world poker tournament if this happened.

Now I am not sure why the spies do it, perhaps because they want to feel important, or maybe for certain ISK incentives.

In Entropia Universe, I read each player can only have one account/character, and if you have more than one character that's a ban-able offense. This would fix the Spy problem, but Eve Online will never be like that because the game is based on pure sandbox. And so many people have multiple accounts already (I have 5 accounts myself).

Eve Online is the only game that I know of, where people involved in alliance / corporation leadership are so uptight about what they say, because they are worried about leaking intel. Basically everyone can be a potential spy, until they are proven not. And even when they are proven not, they can still be a spy.

So my attitude towards all of this is: hey this is a fricking game, don't you get enough of this crap in real life?

Anyway, just I'm just venting about the certain aspect of this game that I hate, anybody feel the same way?



Sounds like Entropia is doing it right. If you can have altts, you can avoid consequences for actions, which is why is ironic when CCP touts EVE as a game where actions have consequences. Need to ship some war material to your null alt to keep fighting?

Well, you won't pay some hauler exorbitant hauling fees for it, because that would actually promote player interaction and economic behavior. No, you insulate yourself by paying for an alt or more accounts to haul with a neutral character that no one knows is yours, so you can get your stuff to you much more easily, and practically for free.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2016-10-04 07:39:55 UTC
InterStellar Architect wrote:
I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming................



Have you considered you are playing the wrong game?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Turelus
Utassi Security
#43 - 2016-10-04 08:48:13 UTC
Having spent a couple of years play other games with semi-open world PvP I can tell you that spying is a big part of most of them.

For example in Elder Scrolls Online people would have laptops logged into rival faction characters just to watch the map to see where attacks were happening before they flagged up for their own faction.

This is just part of player mentality which is use all means necessary to win. Sometimes it means a fight doesn't happen or a horrible loss, sometimes it means the biggest fights possible or a win when intel reported is bad.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2016-10-04 11:50:48 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly.


Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead.

But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL.


There's a type of person called 'True-to-self ', one who is honest to a fault. They don't do well but are recognised as the gold that they are in situations like horrible emergencies, disasters or the ravages of war like famine and plague. So they haven't been weeded out by evolution and probably never will be.
Some people are just rubbish and label themselves true-to-selfers when really the environment has their number and won't let them advance.
Then there's those poor souls who are a bit neurologically divergent and are incapable of lying due to falsehood involving some idea of how things look from another's perspective. They are usually quite intelligent but socially awkward, can be good comedy value but abrasive, blunt and undiplomatic.
They can all understand that civilization depends on a lot of low-key falsehood, that it's part of the game, that under pressure it's time for turbo lying, cheating and stealing.

TLDR: Human nature means you not only have to be Good, but you have to get Gud™ as well.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#45 - 2016-10-04 12:11:09 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly.


Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead.

But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL.



have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians?

it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else. Smile

Just Add Water
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#46 - 2016-10-04 12:32:41 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly.


Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead.

But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL.



have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians?

it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else. Smile

For a considerable part of my career I worked in the most multi-cultural organisation there is and have never had any negative experience with any colleagues from those nations. In my experience they are some of the most respectful people I've worked with.

If you've had negative experiences, that's down to the individuals, not their race. Just the same as people from any country. There is no 'nation of angels', nor the opposite either.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#47 - 2016-10-04 12:59:52 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly.


Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead.

But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL.



have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians?

it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else. Smile

For a considerable part of my career I worked in the most multi-cultural organisation there is and have never had any negative experience with any colleagues from those nations. In my experience they are some of the most respectful people I've worked with.

If you've had negative experiences, that's down to the individuals, not their race. Just the same as people from any country. There is no 'nation of angels', nor the opposite either.


you obviously didn't work with malayalams aka keralites before. been working with them since 2008 and some of my good friends are keralites. i even attended to one of my keralite friend's daughter's wedding in india, and all of them admits to this special trait of theirs. Lol

Just Add Water
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#48 - 2016-10-04 13:14:30 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
you obviously didn't work with malayalams aka keralites before.

That's a bit too much of an assumption. Like I wrote before, nothing but respect from all Indians I have worked with, both in India and from those in my teams and my colleagues at the same level of seniority. It's a complex country, like all countries; but we should probably stop this discussion now.

I'm not trying to change your mind at all, just puting a different experience to the view that they are thieves who will take credit for the work of others (which is what was written above). That's far from my experience.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#49 - 2016-10-04 13:44:54 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians?

it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else. Smile


I've worked for fortune 100 companies and current work on wall street in investment management. I will repeat myself, the only people who need to lie and "play the game" to get ahead are the ones who aren't actually good at their jobs.
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