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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Bellicose pve fit

Author
Silas Tomkyn Comberbache
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-09-30 16:50:03 UTC
Training to fly a cruiser for the first time so I can run level 2-3 security missions. Can anyone recommend or link a simple PVE fit?
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2016-09-30 17:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
I don't recommend trying to use a cruiser for level 3s until you have very high skills and even then you would want to use a T2 cruiser and possibly a T3 if you really want to max out your efficiency.

So stick with level 2s for cruisers. Bellicose is technically an EWAR ship so I don't recommend using it for missioning. If you like missiles, I would recommend training caldari and using a Caracal then the Drake for level 3s.

You can see my comments on how to fit a Caracal here.

The Bellicose would work with a similar fit but lacks the stats a Caracal can acheive.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Memphis Baas
#3 - 2016-09-30 17:39:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Generic fitting advice:

1. Cruisers and bigger ships don't fly like frigates; you can't rely on speed and agility to reduce incoming damage, you have to put in an actual tank (shield or armor).

2. Missions are pretty simple most of the time: you can look up what NPC's you'll be facing on sites like eve-survival.org, and make sure you fit 2 resistance modules to match the listed NPC weapons. Otherwise, a shield booster + shield resistances or an armor repairer + armor resistances = tank. A cruiser doesn't have a lot of slots, so more defenses than that will mean sacrifices in other places.

3. Pick whether you want long range or short range. Fit all your weapon slots with identical weapons suited for that range. In the case of medium missiles, I believe that Heavy missiles are long range, and Heavy Assault missiles are short range.

4. Ensure that you're able to maintain that range by installing a 10mn (medium) afterburner, and optionally a webifier to slow down fast frigate targets.

5. Based on how many remaining medium and low slots you have on the shipt, pick a tank (shield or armor) and install it.

6. If there's room, add damage amplifiers in low slots (Ballistic Control System for missiles), to increase your damage.

7. If your weapon is missiles, and if the ship has bonuses to something like a target painter, make sure to install it. This will help your heavy missiles hit small(er) targets pretty well.

8. The remaining slots, and the rigs, should be fitted with capacitor modules, because PVE combat involves long fights with multiple waves of enemies. So look into medium capacitor booster (with charges), cap recharger, capacitor power relay (don't use this if you have shield defenses), and capacitor control circuit rigs.

As explained in the posts above, missions are relatively simple, you just need strong DPS. Besides the Bellicose, also consider some of the "main combat" cruisers like the Rupture. The Caldari or Gallente ships suggested (Caracal and Vexor respectively) are very popular because they have full bonuses to their weapons (missiles and drones), and the weapons themselves allow you to match the damage that you're doing to the weaknesses of the NPCs (by loading the appropriate missile or drone in your bays). But PVE is easy enough that you can stick with Minmatar ships if that's what you want, and the Bellicose should work ok.

As far as fitting links, Eve University has basic fitting examples for most ships on their wiki. You should check out not just the Bellicose, but the other ships mentioned in this thread.
Robot Robot
Plate of Beans Incorporated
#4 - 2016-09-30 18:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Robot Robot
Don't listen to the naysayers that advice you to get a Caracal! It may end up with slightly better stats in a certain min-max way, but the Bellicose is a great ship, and it does some things the Caracal can't.

Memphis has given you amazing advice that will help you fit a wide variety of ships. But here's a sample Bellicose fit that basically follows her model.

[Bellicose, Level 2 Missions]
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System
IFFA Compact Damage Control

10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Phased Scoped Target Painter

'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Heavy Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Republic Fleet Valkyrie x4


This one's omni-tanked, but you can get better performance by swapping the resist mods out before each mission to specifically tank the damage type those particular rats do. You can permanently run everything but the Shield Booster. That, you'll have to pulse. If you find you're running out of cap, try turning off the AB and Painter for a minute.

Also, this fit requires decent (though by no mean perfect) fitting skills in the CPU department. Switch out one or two CCC rigs for Processor Overclocking Units as need be.

EDIT: Oh, and and because this is the New Citizens forum, I didn't put anything T2 on that Bellicose, but you hopefully have the skills for at least some T2 modules by the time you're moving up to a cruiser. swapping in T2 for anything in the fit will be an improvement, just make sure you have the CPU and grid for it.
Silas Tomkyn Comberbache
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-09-30 18:31:41 UTC
Thanks for good advice all around! I think I will stick with the Bellicose for now, because I purchased it already and because I have flown a Caracal in the past. Special thanks on the fitting! My fitting skills are not great, but I am moving up to a Cruiser because the level 2 missions already seem hard for my Destroyer and because I want to be able to fly a BS eventually. It may be a few more days before I can do it justice, but I'm getting stomped by rats in big ships and need something that can take a beating.
Memphis Baas
#6 - 2016-09-30 18:55:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Quick note:
Shield boosters (repairers) are designed to be oversized (one size bigger than the ship) which is why you see a Large instead of the Medium you'd normally expect.

Another quirk of the Bellicose is the fact that you use missiles and it has a bonus to the target painter, which makes its heavy missiles hit frigates hard enough that a webifier isn't necessary.

And a second note:
Destroyers have a hidden penalty that many people don't realize exists. They have frigate defenses (on paper), with frigate-sized power grid and CPU, and frigate-like slot layout, but they are significantly bigger (signature radius) than frigates. Which means, if you take any mission where enemies shoot missiles at you (and guns to a lesser extent), the mission will be a lot harder than if you do the mission in a frigate. Think of a destroyer as a target-painted frigate; missile missions will just suck. And surprisingly, if you switch from the destroyer to a frigate such as the Rifter, suddenly the same mission is doable, even easy.

Signature / speed tanking is one of the things that most of the fitting emulators (like EFT) can't really illustrate very well. But a destroyer does illustrate it.

With your destroyer trying to do L2 missions, you were facing heavy missile cruisers in an already-target-painted ship. Now when you fly the Bellicose, you're going to target-paint the NPCs, make them easier to hit. You're basically seeing both sides of the signature tank equation.
Robot Robot
Plate of Beans Incorporated
#7 - 2016-09-30 19:21:03 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Quick note:
Signature / speed tanking is one of the things that most of the fitting emulators (like EFT) can't really illustrate very well. But a destroyer does illustrate it.


This is definitely a bit off-topic at this point, but EFT specifically is actually really good at teaching you about sig and speed tanking once you start playing with the DPS graph tool. In my opinion, it's one of the best things about the program, and you don't really have a good idea how your ship is going to fare in practise until you run a few DPS graph simulations.
Silas Tomkyn Comberbache
Doomheim
#8 - 2016-09-30 21:23:16 UTC
Wow, Memphis: amazing! I had not thought about a) the overfit shield booster (which makes one wonder, what kind of ship uses a "small"?) or b) the trouble of using a Destroyer vs. missiles, which is what I have been facing in my missions.

I will have to think about trying the mission ("Mission of Mercy") in a frigate and seeing how I fare. I am probably not even close to being able to pilot a Cruiser effectively.

Thanks again for the tips everyone!
Robot Robot
Plate of Beans Incorporated
#9 - 2016-09-30 21:32:24 UTC
Silas Tomkyn Comberbache wrote:
Wow, Memphis: amazing! I had not thought about a) the overfit shield booster (which makes one wonder, what kind of ship uses a "small"?)


Most shield boosters aren't made to be cap-stable, you have to pulse them on and off because they use too much cap. The one thing small shield boosters have going for them is that their cap use is very low, so you can permanently run them without capping out. Some ships use them this way as basically glorified shield rechargers, though in practise it's pretty much always deadspace or faction boosters.
Memphis Baas
#10 - 2016-09-30 21:47:33 UTC
Small (or normal-sized) shield booster is for ships that aren't designed for (straight-up) combat. For example, some of the mining barges are also as "strong" as a frigate, and with all their power and CPU used for the mining gear, not much is left for "defenses." Another example is an electronic jamming frigate, where most of its CPU is used for its jamming gear - the role of a jammer isn't to tank the damage, so it probably won't have the resources to oversize its shields.

CCP balances ships extremely finely. If a ship is intended for a support role, it may not have enough power or CPU to fit a proper combat tank. That's why people were recommending "full combat" ships like Caracal, Rupture, Vexor, etc. Ships that are intended for "support" roles like jamming, repairing, etc., will have plenty of medium slots to fit their specialized gear, but will NOT have power or CPU to fit a full shield tank in those slots instead of the specialized gear.

That's also why Power Grid Management and Processor Management are skills that should be trained all the way to 5 (eventually); they are the only skills that increase PG and CPU so you can properly fit your ships with everything they need.
Skaarv
Voidlings
V0IDLINGS
#11 - 2016-12-23 09:46:21 UTC
So on that suggested Bellicose fit there, could one fit a Large Ancillary Shield Booster and a 50MN MWD instead? Would free up the Rig slots for 2 Processor Overclockings and a Flare Catalyst, as opposed to the Cap Control Circuits.

I made it work on Pyfa but I don't know how it would handle in the field as I've not used a ASB before.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-12-23 14:34:30 UTC
In many level 3 missions your ASB will run out before you are done with the mission, possibly forcing you to warp out, reload, and warp back in. Generally, ASBs are not very well suited for missions, although there are probably exceptions. I could imagine blitzing missions with high DPS and just a rudimentary ASB tank, for example.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#13 - 2016-12-23 19:46:14 UTC
in most cases if you have the fitting room and the cap a bigger booster is better. Being able to rep more shield in less time can cover for some big mistakes. And when you aren't taking any damage it is easy to just not turn the booster on this should let your cap recharge. Many of my current fits are XL boosters with resist mods and a cap booster. I've learned to get through pretty much all missions without using the cap booster, but having it there has saved me a few times.

However in pve since you know what enemy you are fighting you can fit the proper resists and get away with using an undersized booster. This can be useful to free up fitting room for other mods, or to use less cap. Combine high resists with speed/sig tanks and ships like the Tengu can shield tank whole missions with a small booster. Battleships can use a medium booster with a boost amp and then a bunch of resist mods to easily tank most level 4s. Using deadspace equipment can greatly increase the efficiency of the tank as well, many give very good cap:hp boost ratios. The Pithum c-type medium booster is pretty awesome and is only ~25mil right now. I wouldn't run out and buy one to run level 2s, but when you get more isk and are comfortable running level 3s or 4s it is worth trying one.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter