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Industrial Arrays and the Astrahus
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Darrien
Ouroboros Logistics
#1 - 2016-09-26 10:18:54 UTC
Assuming the Industrial arrays will get Reprocessing service modules and Reprocessing rigs ( I can't see any reason why they wouldn't ) won't that make Astrahus virtually redundant ?

Or is it a case of my Industrial Array doesn't need X service as Y citadel has it locally ?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2016-09-26 10:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
all structures will be able to fit all services . each structure has a role and will fill that role better than the others


for example the citadels are asset safety (think of them as a space vault) the Astrahus will still do this just fine. The industrial array will be better at building ships (probably through better ME/TE discounts as well as a fuel reduction on the services) but it will be easier to kill

so no the astrahus will not become redundant


PS

also going to use this to once again advocate the reprocessing service needs to be able to tax compression (or at least have a separate access list for it

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2016-09-26 10:49:54 UTC
No, Citadels will obsolete themselves. It's already apparent that they will kill off market activity in large swaths of sov null sec due to the fuel cost for the market service. More taxes will only make the matter worse.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2016-09-26 10:51:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
no one says you have to tax but currently there is no incentive to have public reprocessing because its easier to move compressed ore


that said i do agree there should be a higher fuel reduction to markets in null as it is really only needed to balance HS

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Black Pedro
Mine.
#5 - 2016-09-26 10:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Darrien wrote:
Assuming the Industrial arrays will get Reprocessing service modules and Reprocessing rigs ( I can't see any reason why they wouldn't ) won't that make Astrahus virtually redundant ?

Or is it a case of my Industrial Array doesn't need X service as Y citadel has it locally ?
Yes. Well, not quite as they will still have the strongest defenses (and I guess can fit clone chambers), but the Industrial Array will do reprocessing better (or if it doesn't the Drilling Platform which is coming a few months later will definitely) which seems to be a major use for these things currently. The original idea for Citadels was to be "heavily focused toward trade and serve as the primary home for social groups" and to do things like replace Customs Offices and offer insurance, and maybe NPC hauling services. Of course none of that has been implemented yet (or maybe never will be), and given the market module can't be fit on the Astrahus, there is very little utility left at this point beyond the fact it is a station and can tether things.

That said, I guess we should wait until the devblog before we completely write the Astrahus off. Perhaps some of this proposed functionality will appear for Citadels at the same time Industrial Arrays are released.

On a related point, soon there will be an excellent time to pick up deeply discounted, slightly used Astrahuses.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2016-09-26 11:05:01 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

On a related point, soon there will be an excellent time to pick up deeply discounted, slightly used Astrahuses.



i'm not sure about that considering the most recent update is that citadels will be the only ones with asset safety and the rest will drop loot just like in WH

however i can't see indi arrays being used much if that is the case if they don't give a substantial boost. just like ppl stopped using pos to do valuable BPOs after they had to put them at risk to do so

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Black Pedro
Mine.
#7 - 2016-09-26 11:31:20 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:

On a related point, soon there will be an excellent time to pick up deeply discounted, slightly used Astrahuses.



i'm not sure about that considering the most recent update is that citadels will be the only ones with asset safety and the rest will drop loot just like in WH

however i can't see indi arrays being used much if that is the case if they don't give a substantial boost. just like ppl stopped using pos to do valuable BPOs after they had to put them at risk to do so
Maybe.

Given they will have at least one reinforcement timer though, players will have time to stop and scoop industrial jobs everywhere, so they probably still will get used depending on the bonus. But for reprocessing, there is no reason to keep any assets in the player-owned station, so I don't see why anyone would choose a Citadel over a Drilling Platform especially at a cost of a few percent in refining efficiency.

Given most Astrahuses, at least in highsec, seem only to exist to refine/compress things, a lot of them will be replaced and find their way to the market once the Drilling Platform comes online. Maybe some of them will be converted to do industry, but a large number of those used primarily to reprocess will just be straight out decommissioned and sold.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2016-09-26 11:34:33 UTC
but after industrial services are added i could see astrahuses used for that if indi arrays don't get asset safety and i doubt they would let you stop and scoop a job since they don't let you do that with an RF pos

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Black Pedro
Mine.
#9 - 2016-09-26 11:36:34 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
but after industrial services are added i could see astrahuses used for that if indi arrays don't get asset safety and i doubt they would let you stop and scoop a job since they don't let you do that with an RF pos

Good point.

Come on guys, publish that devblog already.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
RainReaper
RRN Industries
#10 - 2016-09-26 11:46:18 UTC
...Where did you guys read that these new structures will not have asset safety? I was att fanfest and asked ccp themselves and they said that ALL structures will have asset safety because people wont dare use the new structures without that or something. And suddenly saying that they wont have asset safety sure is news to me.
Darrien
Ouroboros Logistics
#11 - 2016-09-26 11:53:45 UTC
Perhaps Industrial Arrays won't have the fitting service ?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2016-09-26 11:55:03 UTC
O.o they said the main feature of citadels would be the asset safety. though that was two fan fests ago so they may have changed their mind


BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2016-09-26 12:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Darrien wrote:
Perhaps Industrial Arrays won't have the fitting service ?

Wouldn't make sense. You need to refit your haulers depending on what/how much you transport and where you transport it to. I could imagine that they only have very limited office space so that only Citadels keep their unlimited office space. Or limited ship hangar volumes/limited hangar docking slots.

Black Pedro wrote:
Come on guys, publish that devblog already.

It's still over a month and a half till the release. CCP have not even published the program for the coronation ceremony of Empress Catiz tomorrow. Guess when you will see the dev blog on the new structures or the improvements of NPE. The only thing they have already published is their new cash cow blog for the vanity buying alpha dafties.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
RainReaper
RRN Industries
#14 - 2016-09-26 12:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: RainReaper
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
O.o they said the main feature of citadels would be the asset safety. though that was two fan fests ago so they may have changed their mind




lol I think that was a missunderstandthing then. I remember reading that it first gets introduced with the Citadels. But that the structures following will also have the asset safety. Then again if you think about it. what if someone put 20b worth of blueprints in my citadel/engineering complex And I decided to lock them out? If there was no asset safety I would have fudged them up something MAD. Its more than just a safety mechanic for the structure geting blasted. Its there to help someone get their stuff back if they no longer have access to the structure.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#15 - 2016-09-26 15:07:03 UTC
you mean like right now in WH?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
RainReaper
RRN Industries
#16 - 2016-09-26 15:29:13 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
you mean like right now in WH?

Well not in WH space. Thats the only exeption cause there is no stations there for asset safety to work. And you cant place structures in Thera as far as I know lol. but yeah everywhere else all the structure will have asset safety.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#17 - 2016-09-26 22:49:49 UTC
but the argument "no one would use them" falls flat there tbh the fact that wh does not have it bugs me only because they decided to do that right after talking about how they "hate special exceptions"

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#18 - 2016-09-27 05:33:13 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
but the argument "no one would use them" falls flat there tbh the fact that wh does not have it bugs me only because they decided to do that right after talking about how they "hate special exceptions"

That's because it was just a summarised argument of pages worth of different points. But the main point actually is 'No-one who has any alternative that gives asset safety will use them'

And the C5/6 WH corps did some organised lobbying to get structures dropping loot so that they can blow stuff up is why there is a special WH exception because originally CCP were going to give some form of asset safety to all areas of space (Though WH's weren't getting transport to an NPC station I believe), but the WH crowds spoke very loudly demanding no safety.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#19 - 2016-09-27 05:40:58 UTC
so really there should just be no safty

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#20 - 2016-09-27 05:59:59 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
so really there should just be no safty

And then shortly after that there would be no game because it would be too easy to grief someone out of the game at that point. Lets not try and pretend that people wouldn't go around and blow up every single NPC station for lols if they were vulnerable for example. Even if they didn't get loot from it.
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