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[HORDE] Declaration of War
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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-09-30 15:45:40 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:

Horde is a project of some PL members, that's about it. There is no vassal-overlord relationship, it's a mutually symbiotic relationship.


Keep telling yourself this. Horde is left to do whatever they want until PL decides they have to do something else. Then Gobbins is brought to heel, and he gives the rest of Horde his justifications and excuses for doing what he's told.


Do you have any evidence of that? Because that sounds like the sort of thing that would be hard to prove. And if you can't prove it, you're talking out of your ass.

Common sense and history of human civilization tell that it would be unusual for entity created as 'project' to be fully independent of its creators.


And yet it's not uncommon for us to go entire months at a time without so much as seeing a member of PL.

Once i have worked for several years on big factory. And for all these years i have never seen THE BIG BOSS face to face. Only seen his photos in various places. And yet, he was THE BIG BOSS there.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2016-09-30 15:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Deitra Vess wrote:
Not to go off topic but......

Spaceship Samurai = Pandemic Horde?


Difficult to explain. Think of Honor as, for the most part, Horde for people with more experience. It's not really a strict rule, but almost all of Honor come from Horde, and it's a very common destination for experienced Horde members. We also live in the same region (exception: Hole Riders), stage out of the Keepstar, and run in the same fleets to hit the same targets. Part of the Pandemic Coalition, basically, except with Waffles, whom we are not blue with.

Pandemic is a little odd like that. People who think Horde are PL 'slaves' don't understand what the PanFam Coalition is and the role of other corporations/alliances within it, unless those people also believe that every single member of the coalition is just a PL slave, which would be a pretty childish assumption.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#43 - 2016-09-30 16:04:28 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Not to go off topic but......

Spaceship Samurai = Pandemic Horde?


Difficult to explain. Think of Honor as, for the most part, Horde for people with more experience. It's not really a strict rule, but almost all of Honor come from Horde, and it's a very common destination for experienced Horde members. We also live in the same region (exception: Hole Riders), stage out of the Keepstar, and run in the same fleets to hit the same targets. Part of the Pandemic Coalition, basically, except with Waffles, whom we are not blue with.

Pandemic is a little odd like that. People who think Horde are PL 'slaves' don't understand what the PanFam Coalition is and the role of other corporations/alliances within it, unless those people also believe that every single member of the coalition is just a PL slave, which would be a pretty childish assumption.

Would calling it a stepping stone between horde and legion be right?
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2016-09-30 16:16:07 UTC
Obviously Pandemic Horde is not a fully independent entity, but neither is it directed where to go and what to do like you say it is Arrendis. Like waffles, they choose what they want to do.

But to insist they are completely autonomous and the decisions of leadership is not influenced by what PL do is just as ridiculous Jason. Claiming that the relationship with Horde and PL is "symbiotic" is bordering on propaganda if I did not think it was ignorance that made you say it.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2016-09-30 20:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Ayallah wrote:
Obviously Pandemic Horde is not a fully independent entity, but neither is it directed where to go and what to do like you say it is Arrendis. Like waffles, they choose what they want to do.

But to insist they are completely autonomous and the decisions of leadership is not influenced by what PL do is just as ridiculous Jason. Claiming that the relationship with Horde and PL is "symbiotic" is bordering on propaganda if I did not think it was ignorance that made you say it.


Sure, I can understand this nuance here. Obviously they mostly move together as a coalition, isn't that the point of a coalition? My point isn't necessarily that we **** off and do whatever and don't care about PL (and I didn't mean to communicate that when I said PL was usually irrelevant to our interests, because on big things, we do tend to work towards the same goal), we're after all part of a particularly close coalition, and sure, the leadership tends to come from PL, but it's not an overlord relationship. And if it is, y'all do a damn good job of hiding it and generally we could really give a **** as long as we are doing what we would normally want to do absent such a relationship.

TL;DR if such a directed relationship exists, 99% of Horde doesn't care as long as we happen to be doing what our membership wants to do anyway, which is currently the case.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2016-09-30 20:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Deitra Vess wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Not to go off topic but......

Spaceship Samurai = Pandemic Horde?


Difficult to explain. Think of Honor as, for the most part, Horde for people with more experience. It's not really a strict rule, but almost all of Honor come from Horde, and it's a very common destination for experienced Horde members. We also live in the same region (exception: Hole Riders), stage out of the Keepstar, and run in the same fleets to hit the same targets. Part of the Pandemic Coalition, basically, except with Waffles, whom we are not blue with.

Pandemic is a little odd like that. People who think Horde are PL 'slaves' don't understand what the PanFam Coalition is and the role of other corporations/alliances within it, unless those people also believe that every single member of the coalition is just a PL slave, which would be a pretty childish assumption.

Would calling it a stepping stone between horde and legion be right?


No. The only entity that directly graduates into PL (Sniggerdly corp specifically) is the WAFFLES Alliance (SniggWaffe corp specifically). There's no such guarantee that HONOR is a stepping stone to PL (and if you suck, there's also no such guarantee within SniggWaffe)

It's not impossible for people to join PL from Honor, and I'm pretty sure it has happened, and vice versa, but it's not their typical way of doing things, and it's not an expectation on either end between Honor and PL's members.

PanFam is complicated but it works in a weird way. Think of the different entities as offering different options under the same general umbrella of flying: WAFFLES offers graduation as a serious option and generally flies in low security space, PL is sort of a nomadic wildcard, Horde is a territorial nullsec entity that trains new pilots while being affiliated and participating in the umbrella operations, and HONOR is a nullsec and wormhole entity for those who want to experiment with more niche combat and flying doctrines in a smaller setting than Horde. I like it because it's got something for everyone (I loved Horde but I joined HONOR for the wormhole living), but that's just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt due to my inherent bias and conflict of interest.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
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