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[CSM Blog] December CSM Summit Report

First post First post
Author
TuonelanOrja
Doomheim
#121 - 2012-01-05 07:47:27 UTC
Just remove highsec incursions and we are fine.

Not a veteran, just bitter..

Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#122 - 2012-01-05 07:55:26 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.


Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there.

I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology.


Yea playing simon says with a group of 200 pilots at slideshow speed is really challenging.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2012-01-05 10:17:46 UTC
If the UI honestly got reworked *wtf where is the neo neocom!* I think that would be badass.

As long as CCP realize they can't keep the current WiS thing forever this simple. it's a huge stain on the game to have such a HUGE graphics engine, and character creation, and THATS IT. it makes the game look bad at this point to not take wiS at least a tiny amount farther.

like. put the board game into people rooms, and then, let us visit each others rooms.

DONE you can ignore for a year without confusing the new players that come to eve with this weird simple room.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#124 - 2012-01-05 10:23:39 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.


Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there.

I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology.



So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ?

R.S.I2014

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2012-01-05 12:33:36 UTC
Was a nice read from a Tourist viewpoint. Your blog statements are highlighted due to not being able to place each in a quote.

Future of the CSM

CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.


This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.

EVE Veterans / Loyalty Program

Most online games have some sort of initiative to reward long time players for forking over their money every month for long periods of time. This discussion was not only about what kind of 'rewards' might be offered but also how to continue increasing information flow to players so they don't rage quit over things like the Retribution still only having one mid-slot.


First of all, just exactly how long does a player need to play Eve to become a Vet? 1, 3, 5 or more years? Whatever amount is decided, it will inevitably alienate various players causing more bad feelings towards CCP. Long time players already have beneficial knowledge about various 'Tips' and 'Tricks' to successfully play this game. Personally I look at this whole subject as being biased and prejudiced, not to mention unfair to players who haven't put in as much time..

Talk about players 'Rage Quitting', that's mostly done by new players with less than 1 year in-game. Usually due to being ganked in high security space. Now there's a misrepresentation - high security space.

Nullsec - Stations, Sov, Resources

There was quite a bit discussed here but the #1 request the CSM made is that we want to blow up stations. Destructible Outposts are going to be absolutely key to any kind of sov revamp. In the past, for Dominion, the idea was to have wreckable stations that you would be able to repair. Progress on several fronts has apparently made it possible to completely destroy player built outposts. 'Possibly' does not mean with 100% certainty that it will happen, but it's looking more likely than ever before. Obviously the mechanics of what to do with people's stuff need to be worked out but I feel like CCP is now on-board with the fact that big explosions are good things.

Another big topic in this session was how NPC stations in 0.0 affect null sec warfare. Looking at ways to put more control in the hands of the players is something else CCP Soundwave and his team will be looking at this next year.

The old 'Farms & Fields' topic came up again, along with moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes. There is a lot to do here but for the first time in years CCP seems to have the resources and the mindset to actually tackle and resolve many of the old issues that continue to plague us all.


Looking at real life wars and tactics, it's usually imperative to capture strategic structures. This creates a 'Tug of War' between opposing forces. Total destruction is only a last ditch option which is rarely used. Obviously due to neutral players with items in the station/outpost that are not involved with the war, destroying these structures would create more work on CCP just by petitions alone. How would you like to come back from vacation only to find out that all your possessions have been destroyed? Also what about the characters docked in that structure? Are they destroyed/podded?

NPC stations affecting Null Sec Warfare? Just because it's a neutral station and you have to camp war targets doesn't mean it should be changed. Those stations serve a purpose, especially for non Sov affiliated pilots who need to dock up for whatever reason.

Moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes? Funny how you make it sound like it's the poor house when in reality Null sec space has the highest isk making potential in the game. This whole subject looks like another way to buff killboard stats and gain more isk, not to mention it doesn't plague us all..

Game Balance

Another issue the CSM brought up was something close to my own heart - for characters that have been in supercaps for the past few years (Seleene has been in a Nyx since late 2006), pretty much everyone has maxed their drone skills. With the complete removal of the ability to use drones in supers, this renders several million skill points worth of training completely obsolete.


Well, that is indeed a shame. What exactly are you guys fishing for, re-allocation of skill points? Have the Drone bay replaced? Suck it up and learn to deal with the changes. Everyone gets hit unfavorably from time to time by changes to the game.

Art - Eye Candy

First off, one of the things that CSM 6 bitched about early on was the horrible rookie ships that everyone starts with. This is your introduction to the game and you are forced to fly something that looks pretty ghetto. Well, that's being solved as we were shown the concept art and nearly complete renderings of all four new Rookie ship skins that will be going into EVE "soon". The new Reaper, in particular, looked amazing and makes me wonder how scary the Rifter will look if / when they get around to tweaking it as well. So, yet another example of how the CSM has no power. :)


Yeah, Rookie ships are ghetto. So what? This makes the other ships gained from Career Agents look that much better. Besides that, the T1 ships are gained rather quickly so the new player is only in a Rookie ship for a very short time. I'm sorry but this to me sounds like a complete waste of development resources. Somebody needs to remind CCP about Murphy's Law.

What I see here is CSM again not representing the majority of the playerbase.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2012-01-05 12:42:24 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
because of voting manipulation you only represent less than 5%

Can you expand on this? I'm in the mood for some more hilarious conspiracy theories regarding the CSM.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2012-01-05 12:42:42 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.


Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there.

I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology.



So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ?

Yep.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#128 - 2012-01-05 12:44:15 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.


Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there.

I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology.



So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ?

Yep.


Yep.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#129 - 2012-01-05 12:45:33 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.


Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there.

I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology.



So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ?

Yep.



as i thought you would say.
what a shame ,you put yourself above others.
that,s makes you a person,to feel sorry for

R.S.I2014

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#130 - 2012-01-05 12:49:39 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:

that,s makes you a person,to feel sorry for


Having other people feel sorry for me is much better than feeling sorry for myself. I'm outsourcing.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#131 - 2012-01-05 13:37:51 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Was a nice read from a Tourist viewpoint. Your blog statements are highlighted due to not being able to place each in a quote.

Future of the CSM

CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.


This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.


So from a position of knowing nothing about exactly what was discussed, you conclude that the agenda exactly matched your assumptions?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#132 - 2012-01-05 13:38:39 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If WH-space and highsec aren,t going to be nerfed ,in favour of 0.0 i wil take my words back and apologize for the things i said.


Nobody cares about WH space because the only people who live there are antisocial roleplayers who can't hack fleet combat. Highsec just had the most ridiculous isk faucet in the history of the game added a couple expansions ago so I'm not sure what you're worried about there.

I'm sure the CSM accepts your apology.



So the only normal people in this game live in 0.0 ?


Maybe your parents should be the ones to tell you this, but Santa isn't real.

Oh, and you're incredibly easily trolled.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#133 - 2012-01-05 13:41:04 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Future of the CSM

CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.


This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.


Find me a voting system that can't be manipulated by Political Parties, and I will come to your house, strip naked, and give you a sandwich. Then steal the idea and become famous as the guy who broke Game Theory.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#134 - 2012-01-05 20:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
RubyPorto wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Future of the CSM

CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.


This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.


Find me a voting system that can't be manipulated by Political Parties, and I will come to your house, strip naked, and give you a sandwich. Then steal the idea and become famous as the guy who broke Game Theory.


All campaign officials and affiliates on the winning side must commit ritual suicide at the end of their term.

Failure to do so would result in the execution of their immediate families.

If a single case of voter fraud is found on either side during election, both parties must commit suicide and another election held two months later.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#135 - 2012-01-05 20:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Kuronaga wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Future of the CSM

CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.


This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.


Find me a voting system that can't be manipulated by Political Parties, and I will come to your house, strip naked, and give you a sandwich. Then steal the idea and become famous as the guy who broke Game Theory.


All campaign officials and affiliates on the winning side must commit ritual suicide at the end of their term.

Failure to do so would result in the execution of their immediate families.

If a single case of voter fraud is found on either side during election, both parties must commit suicide and another election held two months later.


That's easily manipulated by people who's families are dead or who wish their families were dead. Thus they can refuse to commit suicide with impunity.

NEXT!

Side Note: Your idea also eliminates the possibility of a well educated government, and due to ill-defined phrasing would result in the death of the entire Electorate every time.

(FWI, I was not including voter Fraud in the category of manipulation)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-01-05 20:38:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Seleene wrote:
Max Von Sydow wrote:
Quote:
CCP Tallest (the man is just a shade under seven feet) is Team BFF's primary ship balancer dude and we got to speak with him about... hell, pretty much everything. He asked what all was still ****** in the game and took a lot of notes. This is similar to what happened at the first summit back in May, only this time Tallest has an expansion under his belt and a better feel for how to prioritize things and get stuff done. This talk wasn't just limited to us throwing out ship names, but actually discussing each ship class and some of the specific ships themselves.


Please talk to him about the tier system. This would be the perfect time for CCP to remove that ancient artifact from the game.


Are you talking about Tier 1 / 2 / 3 ships or what?


Since nobody else has jumped on this yet I'll clarify - the existing hull tiering system serves to make certain shiptypes 'worthless by design' because the tiering system affects more or less everything down to hit points and module slots and shield/armour/structure HP, so a higher tier version outperforms it across the board. It doesn't apply in every case - tier 1 battleships are pretty decent because they have distinct niches that mostly make them worth fielding in particular roles, but the worst offenders come in the frigate and battlecruiser range where some lower tier hulls are pre-crippled to the point that there's effectively no role for them to serve not already covered by their big brother. A Cyclone is just a Bad Hurricane, a Slasher is just a Bad Rifter, because they're designed for more or less the same role whilst the limitations of the lower tier mean it can't hope to compete.

Fixing the tiering system (either by eliminating it so all ships effectively become tier 1 with statlines to match, or amending it so different tiers can signify Useful Role X vs Useful Role Y rather than Terrible Ship X vs Useful Ship Y) so that there's a reason to use those hulls currently pre-crippled by their lowly tier would be a welcome change.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#137 - 2012-01-05 21:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
RubyPorto wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Future of the CSM

CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.


This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.


Find me a voting system that can't be manipulated by Political Parties, and I will come to your house, strip naked, and give you a sandwich. Then steal the idea and become famous as the guy who broke Game Theory.


All campaign officials and affiliates on the winning side must commit ritual suicide at the end of their term.

Failure to do so would result in the execution of their immediate families.

If a single case of voter fraud is found on either side during election, both parties must commit suicide and another election held two months later.


That's easily manipulated by people who's families are dead or who wish their families were dead. Thus they can refuse to commit suicide with impunity.

NEXT!

Side Note: Your idea also eliminates the possibility of a well educated government, and due to ill-defined phrasing would result in the death of the entire Electorate every time.

(FWI, I was not including voter Fraud in the category of manipulation)


You never stated the civilian government had to be well educated. It would obviously be a pre-dominantly military controlled government anyway, as they don't really have elections and would be around for far longer.

However to rectify the error about families, every politician has a chip with a small amount of C4 implanted directly into the back of their head. If it is not regularly charged and inspected, it is detonated via satellite/timer killing them instantly.

No running away is therefore possible, and the killing of families unnecessary.
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2012-01-05 21:24:14 UTC
Well, that was sad. Sounds like a lot of stroking went on, drinks were had but little was actually done. Destructable stations? That's all you could come up with? Is it because that's all the CSM knows how to do(pew-pew!)? Blown up or captured, there is little difference. Frankly, reading this makes the CSM sound like they, like CCP, don't play EVE. What a waste of potential from what the CSM could have been.

Still, CCP got a bunch of buzz out of not changing their motto of new shiny items over content. Credit given for addressing some of the small problems though.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#139 - 2012-01-05 21:28:26 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:


You never stated the civilian government had to be well educated. It would obviously be a pre-dominantly military controlled government anyway, as they don't really have elections and would be around for far longer.

However to rectify the error about families, every politician has a chip with a small amount of C4 implanted directly into the back of their head. If it is not regularly charged and inspected, it is detonated via satellite/timer killing them instantly.

No running away is therefore possible, and the killing of families unnecessary.


True, which is why I added that in a sidenote to my main problems with your idea (besides the sanity check, of course).

If you don't really have elections, it fails to be a real voting system.

And so the politician runs for office while refusing to accept the explosive skull perk. Write in candidates are a feature of voting systems.

Finally, dealing with intra voter collusion and other aspects of Political Parties by killing the politicians simply invites the equivalent of suicide ganks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_system

Read up on voting systems, and design a voting system that eliminates the influence of Political Parties on the election. (Punishing them for doing so doesn't stop them from doing so, as the punishment invariably occurs after the influence occurs)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#140 - 2012-01-05 22:36:39 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Was a nice read from a Tourist viewpoint. Your blog statements are highlighted due to not being able to place each in a quote.

Future of the CSM

CCP Xhagen and the CSM spent a good ninety minutes discussing everything from how the current CSM compares to previous ones to the actual nomination / election process.


This seems to be more about getting your ego's stroked. I highly doubt there were any recommendations made that would hinder big Alliance's ability to manipulate the current process of getting their own candidate elected.

EVE Veterans / Loyalty Program

Most online games have some sort of initiative to reward long time players for forking over their money every month for long periods of time. This discussion was not only about what kind of 'rewards' might be offered but also how to continue increasing information flow to players so they don't rage quit over things like the Retribution still only having one mid-slot.


First of all, just exactly how long does a player need to play Eve to become a Vet? 1, 3, 5 or more years? Whatever amount is decided, it will inevitably alienate various players causing more bad feelings towards CCP. Long time players already have beneficial knowledge about various 'Tips' and 'Tricks' to successfully play this game. Personally I look at this whole subject as being biased and prejudiced, not to mention unfair to players who haven't put in as much time..

Talk about players 'Rage Quitting', that's mostly done by new players with less than 1 year in-game. Usually due to being ganked in high security space. Now there's a misrepresentation - high security space.

Nullsec - Stations, Sov, Resources

There was quite a bit discussed here but the #1 request the CSM made is that we want to blow up stations. Destructible Outposts are going to be absolutely key to any kind of sov revamp. In the past, for Dominion, the idea was to have wreckable stations that you would be able to repair. Progress on several fronts has apparently made it possible to completely destroy player built outposts. 'Possibly' does not mean with 100% certainty that it will happen, but it's looking more likely than ever before. Obviously the mechanics of what to do with people's stuff need to be worked out but I feel like CCP is now on-board with the fact that big explosions are good things.

Another big topic in this session was how NPC stations in 0.0 affect null sec warfare. Looking at ways to put more control in the hands of the players is something else CCP Soundwave and his team will be looking at this next year.

The old 'Farms & Fields' topic came up again, along with moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes. There is a lot to do here but for the first time in years CCP seems to have the resources and the mindset to actually tackle and resolve many of the old issues that continue to plague us all.


Looking at real life wars and tactics, it's usually imperative to capture strategic structures. This creates a 'Tug of War' between opposing forces. Total destruction is only a last ditch option which is rarely used. Obviously due to neutral players with items in the station/outpost that are not involved with the war, destroying these structures would create more work on CCP just by petitions alone. How would you like to come back from vacation only to find out that all your possessions have been destroyed? Also what about the characters docked in that structure? Are they destroyed/podded?

NPC stations affecting Null Sec Warfare? Just because it's a neutral station and you have to camp war targets doesn't mean it should be changed. Those stations serve a purpose, especially for non Sov affiliated pilots who need to dock up for whatever reason.

Moon goo re-balancing and other sov / null sec-related incomes? Funny how you make it sound like it's the poor house when in reality Null sec space has the highest isk making potential in the game. This whole subject looks like another way to buff killboard stats and gain more isk, not to mention it doesn't plague us all..

Game Balance

Another issue the CSM brought up was something close to my own heart - for characters that have been in supercaps for the past few years (Seleene has been in a Nyx since late 2006), pretty much everyone has maxed their drone skills. With the complete removal of the ability to use drones in supers, this renders several million skill points worth of training completely obsolete.


Well, that is indeed a shame. What exactly are you guys fishing for, re-allocation of skill points? Have the Drone bay replaced? Suck it up and learn to deal with the changes. Everyone gets hit unfavorably from time to time by changes to the game.

Art - Eye Candy

First off, one of the things that CSM 6 bitched about early on was the horrible rookie ships that everyone starts with. This is your introduction to the game and you are forced to fly something that looks pretty ghetto. Well, that's being solved as we were shown the concept art and nearly complete renderings of all four new Rookie ship skins that will be going into EVE "soon". The new Reaper, in particular, looked amazing and makes me wonder how scary the Rifter will look if / when they get around to tweaking it as well. So, yet another example of how the CSM has no power. :)


Yeah, Rookie ships are ghetto. So what? This makes the other ships gained from Career Agents look that much better. Besides that, the T1 ships are gained rather quickly so the new player is only in a Rookie ship for a very short time. I'm sorry but this to me sounds like a complete waste of development resources. Somebody needs to remind CCP about Murphy's Law.

What I see here is CSM again not representing the majority of the playerbase.



Quoted for unimaginable awesome.

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