These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[CSM Blog] December CSM Summit Report

First post First post
Author
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#41 - 2011-12-22 21:08:01 UTC
Seleene wrote:
quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai said: Down side: you all forgot about the WiS crowd (alone in a CQ? That's all?),

"You all" doesn't really mean CSM in this case. The Incarna roll-out was a disaster for several reasons, not the least of which was a single (ugly) CQ and graphics cards melting. When CCP can come up with a way to actually get several dozen (at least) avatars in a shared space together, they will probably re-visit the concept of Promenades or Establishments. Personally, I just want there to be some kind of game play element attached to WiS so it's not just a fashion show. When CCP has a plan for all that, and everything I've seen thus far indicates that they do not, then I'm sure we'll hear about it and maybe see more WiS content.


Some kind of official statement would be fine. There's been a thread ignored for almost 2 months and frankly I think the same as you: they may have the assets and tech stuff, but don't really know what to do with it. Asking the players is the way to go. What do players expect from WiS? There's more than the broken nullsec, broken FW, broken everything. And the sooner they start asking the sooner they can devote a few manpower to the WiS technical stuff while everybody else fixes everything fixable and so so we can get some new content.

Quote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
hiseccers (you know, that people who stubbornly refuse to play your game your way) and don't even are aware that soloers do exist in your pretty MMO.


We're all playing the same game. I honestly don't get this attitude at all unless you are just looking to pointless rage at alliance tags without any regard for the histories of the people on the CSM.


This attitude stems from banging my head against forum trolls for the last month. And also from the simple fact that none of you CSM lived in hisec since years ago, so maybe you can't experience first hand how devoid of gameplay/goals it is.

Quote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Crucible did nothing for any of the above and all we get is "moar Crucible" + "WiS/NEx wall of silence". .


Dude, stop trolling. :) There were pages and pages of fixes and changes in Crucible that applied to general game play and had nothing at all to do with whatever your game play style was.


I am not talking about shiny. I am talking about playing the game. After Crucible, i am allowed to do the following things i didn't did before:

Hisec content: none (well, ganker BCs to make miners' life even more miserable)

Solo content: none (well, POCOs so big corporations can quick out everyone else from PI -amazingly as CSM are all from big corporations -insert shrugging)

Casual FiS content: none (that's a long standing tradition since i entered the game three years ago)

Let's say you are a player who only got one hour to play EVE, who wants to have fun and is alone.

Now tell me what has done Crucible for you.

And what will CCP do for you while they fix all that nullsec multiplayer PvP stuff.

Exciting, huh?

Hope you can see where i stand... in a game based upon fukking other players, a place where it's diffcult to fuk players is gonna be empty unless you add rules and stuff so people can do other that fuk the neighbor.Roll

Incursion could had been a good idea, if weren't that they had to come out with that bullshit about "only one gets the reward, everybody else lost their ships for nothing", so now incursions are ISK printers for a few and most people stay clear from them. Almost as succesful as moving Lvl5 to places where no sensible mission runner would fly his have-fun machine that costed him months of grinding.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2011-12-22 21:40:52 UTC
Thank you, Seleene. Keep up the good work you and the other members of the CSM do for all of us.
Yuki Crowfeet
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-12-22 21:52:42 UTC
Great blog Seleene, thanks for keeping us in the loop.

Would you genuinely prefer for NeX items to be produced in game for lp/isk (thus generating no income for CCP)? Personally I have no interest in paying real money for in-game fluff, but I have significant interest in CCP making more money to spend on the game and if they can get that for selling pixels that have no effect on the game then I'm all for it.

Also, has anyone considered running a massive player questionnaire to harvest the opinions of players en-masse?

0.0 Investigation I am flying around the depths of space interviewing pilots about their experiences. In-game channel: EIES

Flamespar
WarRavens
#44 - 2011-12-22 22:04:13 UTC
Seleene

Was the future of WiS spoken of in any depth? It sounds like we won't be getting multiplayer establishments in the next year. And yet the massive reallocation of developers to all things EVE creates the impression that the man/woman power now exists that would allow CCP to do work on both FiS and WiS
Micia
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2011-12-22 22:11:01 UTC
Yuki Crowfeet wrote:
Great blog Seleene, thanks for keeping us in the loop.

Would you genuinely prefer for NeX items to be produced in game for lp/isk (thus generating no income for CCP)?


CCP makes money whenever anyone buys a plex - which can then be sold ingame for ISK.

If vanity items could be sold for ISK, the mechanic is already in place for people wanting to spend their RL cash on these. I have no idea what the whole Aurum mechanic was for.


Frontier: Prelude To Darkness - An animated scifi web-series, featuring me! Watch it :) ...and coming soon, play Wing Commander Saga: Darkest Dawn. Also, with me. :)

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#46 - 2011-12-22 22:53:48 UTC
I liked the part about new rookie ships.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Liam Mirren
#47 - 2011-12-22 23:08:53 UTC
I thoroughly enjoyed reading that. Hearing that CCP is back on the right track and is nurturing their DEVS rather than frustrating them, resulting in them putting in the effort to create well thought out content rather than just being coding cattle and doing "as told". It takes balls to look at yourself in the mirror and shout at the world that you've been an idiot, and then take the necessary steps to make good on that.

Just be careful with the "out with the old, just because", the old aesthetics and game vision is what got you here, dismissing them as old and redundant would be a mistake. Iterate on the things you have but always keep the old feel&goals in mind.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Hikaru Kuroda
Extheria
#48 - 2011-12-22 23:36:36 UTC
Thanks for the feedback, was amazing to read your experiences in the top of the world with our entertainment providers.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2011-12-22 23:47:32 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
This attitude stems from banging my head against forum trolls for the last month. And also from the simple fact that none of you CSM lived in hisec since years ago, so maybe you can't experience first hand how devoid of gameplay/goals it is.

This is absolutely not true. Look beyond the two goons on the CSM.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Alain Kinsella
#50 - 2011-12-23 01:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alain Kinsella
Seleene wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Generally good stuff and much appreciate your efforts.

I still disagree with your notion on "vanity" content for microtransactions though and strongly believe that ship-skins and such things should be a player industry (lp function) rather than delivered through some nonsense like the NeX store.


If they could come up with something like that which worked well, I would wholeheartedly endorse it. I'm not beholden to a particular way of doing this at all.


There.com had a tool that allowed you to 'paint' their allowed 3D models for vehicles (and had similar for the various clothing types). It included preview for the item under the three LOD levels available, and in the case for clothing, a basic pre-screen for PG rating (neckline etc).

The finished re-skin would be uploaded for approval, and if OK'd you would get one copy plus the ability to sell more of them on their in-world shopping site (you could set the price, so long as it was at or above their stock item costs).

I was going to add that Hilmar could poke their CEO for discussion, but it appears There is no longer offline. Shocked It *is* marked as 18+ though, which was the condition given for a re-release.

EDIT - I could go into more detail about both this and SL's methods (and to a lesser degree, Uru), but don't want to drag too deeply into tech stuff for this. You're welcome to eve-mail me to discuss; I'll supply a RL email if really interested.

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#51 - 2011-12-23 06:00:34 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Chribba wrote:
Good writeup, thanks!

Looking forward to the coming devblogs.

/c


How do you always get first post? HOW? Are you a wizard? LolLol


The ways of the Lord of the Holy Veldspar are not for us mortals to knowBlink

Ni.

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#52 - 2011-12-23 06:25:59 UTC
Oh, and:

Seleene?

LowSec?

Fixes/expansions of content/iteration of existing content we can haz soon, not Soon(TM) plz? Kthxbai.

Ni.

Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#53 - 2011-12-23 06:51:29 UTC
Thanks for the write up, I had a really good time reading it. Gives me hope for EVE ♥!


Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#54 - 2011-12-27 14:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Seleene
Holidays kept me off the forums. Back to work...

Sellendis wrote:
Seleene

Are there any info on CCP giving us the option to use some old stuff (like old font and so on) or are they gonna shove new things down our throats and call it a day.

Since most of our complains and issues are mostly ignored in test server feedback. Now we have (for some) ugly font and a background so bright you cant read the letters. Is this a done thing, or is CCP gonna take a second look.


The font is a done deal AFAIK. No going back. This is also the third major font revision in eight years, I believe.

As for the bright background, YES, that specifically did come up. They are aware of it and are going to continue tweaking.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#55 - 2011-12-27 14:29:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Seleene
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
I LOVE the idea of "if NeX must exist, make prices lower."

Everything in there needs to be 1/10 the price, and destructible.


Destructible or not, the prices were always one of the sticking points with me. There is next to nothing to buy there in the first place and then it costs more than RL clothing? I wrote about this shortly after Incarna's release:

MegaTransactions & Incarna 1.0

Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
Also, is it too difficult to allow players an ability to design articles of clothing, submit them like Alliance logos, and have CCP rubber-stamp the stuff for introduction to the NeX?

This would definitely allow for unique Corp/Alliance uniforms, at the very least.


That's what I think a lot of people would refer to as The Dream, or a least a variation thereof. Yes, it would be difficult to wrap all of that up but not impossible. At the least, the idea of Alliance / Corp uniforms is an obvious and 'simple' first step in going forward. However, right now I don't think we'll see much progress on this issue. CCP has learned in a very hard way that FIRE BURNS and they will only get one more shot at trying to 'introduce' Space Doll Fashion to us again. Hopefully they will take their time with it and get it (and the prices) right.


Written Word wrote:
Its worrisome you used the words Convenience MTs as the name for that whole section, as that's something that hasn't been mentioned in the ongoing Aurum/MT debacle except in Fearless.

The less of Fearless we get in the ride forward, the better everybody would be.


Hey, that was just the name of the session. Convenience / vanity / fluff, it's all the same thing really - useless pretty ****. Cool

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#56 - 2011-12-27 14:40:22 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Many thanks for the inside look.

If I may ask two questions, and I fully understand if the NDA precludes a clear answer.

1: What would be the difference (if any, other than name) between "micro-plex" and AURUM?


Bear in mind, this is just my perception as a player but AUR is, and always was, an extra unnecessary layer added to an already complex economic system. To me, the difference is making things easier by using 'currency' we are already familiar with. There are more complex and complete answers to your question, but my stance on this is pretty simple.

Ranger 1 wrote:
2: Was there any mention of the NeX store eventually being able to handle either selling BPC's, or instead being able to handle items other than AURUM for transactions (finished ships, materials, etc.)?


Yes, there was talk. Bear

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#57 - 2011-12-27 14:52:31 UTC
Yuki Crowfeet wrote:
Great blog Seleene, thanks for keeping us in the loop.

Would you genuinely prefer for NeX items to be produced in game for lp/isk (thus generating no income for CCP)? Personally I have no interest in paying real money for in-game fluff, but I have significant interest in CCP making more money to spend on the game and if they can get that for selling pixels that have no effect on the game then I'm all for it.


First answer is, sure, I'd love to see player produced fluff, but that's so far in the future that it's barely even worth discussing at this point.

Right now what I'd like to do is eliminate the nonsense that is ~Aurum~ and use the system we already have. CCP already has a brilliant money making scheme with PLEX and it's corporate profitability is largely invisible to most space billionaires. I've never spent one cent of Aurum because 1.) the NEX prices are ******** and 2.) the entire MT side of EVE is pants on head ********. That being said, I've got a stack of PLEX that I'd think nothing of breaking down into smaller units to purchase sensibly priced vanity items (Flames on my Rifters!!). I mean, I bought my PLEX with ISK so it's not 'real money', right? Blink

It's absurdly psychological, but it is what it is. At some point along the line, CCP makes money when people buy PLEX. By braking PLEX down into smaller units, there are all kinds of possibilities from letting them be used for vanity purchases to even allowing you to extend your game play time for a week instead of a month. I've never had an issue with CCP making extra money by doing cool stuff, so long as the cool stuff provides exactly ZERO game mechanic advantage.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#58 - 2011-12-27 14:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Seleene
Flamespar wrote:
Seleene

Was the future of WiS spoken of in any depth? It sounds like we won't be getting multiplayer establishments in the next year. And yet the massive reallocation of developers to all things EVE creates the impression that the man/woman power now exists that would allow CCP to do work on both FiS and WiS


Was it spoken of 'in depth'? Not really, at least not in the official sessions. After hours, 'Incarna' came up quite a lot. I think most of the CSM sees the whole mess as a combination of missed opportunity and just classic mus-understanding of what their player base expected. We expected "more" and we expected "better".

I couldn't say with any certainty when we will see 'Establishments' because the same issues that prevented their roll out still exist. For example:

Technical - can has more than 3 Incarna avatars in a room without video card melting?

Gameplay - can has ANY kind of EVE-related game play?

Tie-in to FiS - There needs to be a solid 'link' between 1 & 2 for a large portion of EVE players to buy into it.

All of these questions (and more) need to be answered and resolved. Until they are, I doubt we'll see Establishments or anything else soon.

In terms of available resources, they do have people working on it, but I couldn't tell you much more than that right now.

Nova Fox wrote:
I liked the part about new rookie ships.


Me too! Cool

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Prince Kobol
#59 - 2011-12-27 15:15:01 UTC
Any news on tackling Botting / RMT or perhaps at the very least could could a DEV respond in one of the many posts regarding the subject.

Or is the subject just a complete no go area as there are no bots, there is no RMT Big smile

Liam Mirren
#60 - 2011-12-27 15:20:28 UTC
Thanks for your continued effort in this Seleene, don't ever stop.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.