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[CSM Blog] December CSM Summit Report

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J Kunjeh
#21 - 2011-12-22 14:53:28 UTC
A most excellent write-up Seleene, thank you so much for taking the time to do that for the players. Can't wait to read the official minutes.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
EcthelionStrongbow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-12-22 15:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: EcthelionStrongbow
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Read the whole thing, pretty interesting stuff.

Up side: it's good to see CCP going back to excellence, FiS and nullsec stuff. Warms my heart to remind me why i love this game.

Down side: you all forgot about the WiS crowd (alone in a CQ? That's all?), hiseccers (you know, that people who stubbornly refuse to play your game your way) and don't even are aware that soloers do exist in your pretty MMO.

Crucible did nothing for any of the above and all we get is "moar Crucible" + "WiS/NEx wall of silence".

Not very engaging.


I can definitely see your point but I think CCP is tackling the easier problems of fixing null sec sov, pos misery, etc. I think that high sec has a bigger problem of what to do with high sec. In null sec, they have basically given the players a lot of tools that work somewhat well for generating content (structure bashing as content sucks but it's still content). In high sec there is such a limited amount of content that can be created by the players because of the rules of high sec.

I think my main question on high sec is, "What tools can CCP give high sec folks that will make it possible to have player generated content that doesn't suck and doesn't screw over the other areas of the game?"

Overall great write up Seleene. Hopefully post holidays there will be enough info out there to let players be CCP's best salespeople.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#23 - 2011-12-22 15:11:41 UTC
That was a nice read.

Any idea when the official minutes will be out?

How to win EVE
Written Word
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2011-12-22 15:13:58 UTC
Bleh, the thought of "convenience MTs" needs to be taken out back and shot. Looking forward to the next "Sure we'll spawn scorpions and nahh the CSM is totally chill for us doing it" moment from CCP.

Cool features will be laiden with "Insert Aurum to move stuff, Insert Aurum for standings, Insert Aurum for X"
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#25 - 2011-12-22 15:14:02 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Down side: you all forgot about the WiS crowd (alone in a CQ? That's all?),


"You all" doesn't really mean CSM in this case. The Incarna roll-out was a disaster for several reasons, not the least of which was a single (ugly) CQ and graphics cards melting. When CCP can come up with a way to actually get several dozen (at least) avatars in a shared space together, they will probably re-visit the concept of Promenades or Establishments. Personally, I just want there to be some kind of game play element attached to WiS so it's not just a fashion show. When CCP has a plan for all that, and everything I've seen thus far indicates that they do not, then I'm sure we'll hear about it and maybe see more WiS content.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
hiseccers (you know, that people who stubbornly refuse to play your game your way) and don't even are aware that soloers do exist in your pretty MMO.


We're all playing the same game. I honestly don't get this attitude at all unless you are just looking to pointless rage at alliance tags without any regard for the histories of the people on the CSM.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Crucible did nothing for any of the above and all we get is "moar Crucible" + "WiS/NEx wall of silence". .


Dude, stop trolling. :) There were pages and pages of fixes and changes in Crucible that applied to general game play and had nothing at all to do with whatever your game play style was.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

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Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#26 - 2011-12-22 15:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Seleene
EcthelionStrongbow wrote:
I think my main question is, "What tools can CCP give high sec folks that will make it possible to have player generated content that doesn't suck and doesn't screw over the other areas of the game?"


It's certainly something that's being looked at, especially as it relates to things like the NPE and retention. Some folks just wanna mine away solo or play the market and never undock, etc... What kind of activities are eventually made available will still fall within the same old 'risk vs. reward' argument, but I do know this topic is not being ignored. As I said near the end of the blog, there are so many more people working directly on EVE that this is the kind of stuff that can finally be addressed properly.

For now, obviously, CCP is going to focus on the 'low hanging fruit' that it can fix immediately while developing sound mechanics that won't upset the balance of the whole game. It's a totally smart way to do stuff. Smile

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#27 - 2011-12-22 15:23:07 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
That was a nice read.

Any idea when the official minutes will be out?


Best guess is mid-January. Lots of motivation to get the info out ASAP. Cool


Written Word wrote:
Bleh, the thought of "convenience MTs" needs to be taken out back and shot. Looking forward to the next "Sure we'll spawn scorpions and nahh the CSM is totally chill for us doing it" moment from CCP.

Cool features will be laiden with "Insert Aurum to move stuff, Insert Aurum for standings, Insert Aurum for X"


Nah, I'm pretty sure we made it clear what we think of Aurum and any future plans for it. It's impossible to say with any certainty what CCP will do about it but whatever it is, I don't think it will be more knee jerk stuff like we've seen in the past.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

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EcthelionStrongbow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-12-22 15:26:25 UTC
Seleene wrote:
EcthelionStrongbow wrote:
I think my main question is, "What tools can CCP give high sec folks that will make it possible to have player generated content that doesn't suck and doesn't screw over the other areas of the game?"


It's certainly something that's being looked at, especially as it relates to things like the NPE and retention. Some folks just wanna mine away solo or play the market and never undock, etc... What kind of activities are eventually made available will still fall within the same old 'risk vs. reward' argument, but I do know this topic is not being ignored. As I said near the end of the blog, there are so many more people working directly on EVE that this is the kind of stuff that can finally be addressed properly.

For now, obviously, CCP is going to focus on the 'low hanging fruit' that it can fix immediately while developing sound mechanics that won't upset the balance of the whole game. It's a totally smart way to do stuff. Smile


Glad to hear that it is being worked on.

I was just pointing out that in my opinion the future of high sec is a much more difficult question than what to do with low , WH, or null sec since there are so many more rules that effect gameplay. I think it would be interesting to be on the team brainstorming answers to that question but it would probably be quite frusterating as well.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#29 - 2011-12-22 16:08:43 UTC
Seleene wrote:
This is similar to what happened at the first summit back in May, only this time Tallest has a successful expansion under his belt and a better feel for how to prioritize things and get stuff done.


FYP

Thanks for the excellent write-up! Things seem to be pointing skywards for EVE.

I'm especially happy for the Art team, they seem to be very talented and I'm glad they work on stuff they love <3

I also feel that not enough credit has been given to Hilmar, I mean it's ultra rare that a visionary leader actually has the balls to turn around and readjust things, and learn from mistakes.

Idk, a bit of a mindless post, I just realized how important this "game" has become for me. Fantastic work, all I can say.



.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#30 - 2011-12-22 16:18:41 UTC
Wow. Lotta "this was cool but NDA" in that article.

You have made some VERY bold claims.

I hope we see something that makes my jaw drop at some point.

Roll

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#31 - 2011-12-22 16:23:34 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Logan LaMort wrote:
Thanks, that was an interesting read and a good write up.

Question about the art stuff, are we possibly looking at new turrets/V3 textures/warp effect/nebuale kind of awesome or something much more?


Yes to all, really. Yes to questions you haven't asked as well. We made sure that Art understood when they start showing some of this stuff to have videos, not just words and pictures. Smile


That's good to know and I'll be content with that for now, because trust me I'd love to go into the details and specifics but I'm well aware of the mighty ~NDA~ Smile

I can relate to Trinity however, since I first started playing EVE back during Red Moon Rising. That makes me think you're right about saving it for fanfast, after all this is the first fanfest since the debacle of Incarna and the new emphasis of FIS from Crucible. I think CCP will probably be saving a lot to wow us over those couple of days... but regardless I am excited. I also forgot how badass the BSG space battles were Cool

Also I really do appreciate the rest of the write up, I read it all and I'm interested in those developments too, it really was a good read Big smile
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#32 - 2011-12-22 16:28:26 UTC
Seleene wrote:

It's certainly something that's being looked at, especially as it relates to things like the NPE and retention.


CCP seriously need to put another set of eyes or three on the NPE.

I started a new character the other day just to see what had changed. On the second mission I was given a shield booster (not civilian any more, cool) and expected to fit it onto my ship and use it after taking damage after a container exploded.

...but you don't start out with the skills to use a basic shield booster any more, and Aura hadn't explained anything about skills to me yet and that I'd need some for that toy she gave me.

Little things like that where a new player quickly gets confused and thinks they did something wrong makes a very bad first impression - and like the saying goes, you only get one chance to make a good first impression.


I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2011-12-22 16:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
cant comment much because you didnt specify any details, but i hope theyre on the right track regarding FW, nullsec and ship class balancing. these three things are all that matters in EVE right now. PVP has become complete shite.
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#34 - 2011-12-22 16:38:48 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Seleene wrote:

It's certainly something that's being looked at, especially as it relates to things like the NPE and retention.


CCP seriously need to put another set of eyes or three on the NPE.

I started a new character the other day just to see what had changed. On the second mission I was given a shield booster (not civilian any more, cool) and expected to fit it onto my ship and use it after taking damage after a container exploded.

...but you don't start out with the skills to use a basic shield booster any more, and Aura hadn't explained anything about skills to me yet and that I'd need some for that toy she gave me.

Little things like that where a new player quickly gets confused and thinks they did something wrong makes a very bad first impression - and like the saying goes, you only get one chance to make a good first impression


There were three representatives for the NPE team in our meeting and it was quite a good session. I have no idea why one of them took notes on post-it notes but she had about 30 of them scribbled on after the meeting. As far as first impressions go, getting the Rookie ships re-skinned was something we really pushed for and it's actually going to happen. Art resources are solid gold so the fact that they did this says a lot about how much attention they are paying to it.

From what I could tell, most of the CSM (including me) have played through the tutorial recently and we all had comments about what worked and what didn't. There's a massive push not just with things like the Tutorial but also with the EVE website and such that are looking to help new players find the 'hook' that keeps them in. From what we saw and the reps that we talked to, retention is a very big deal for CCP, especially getting new players to stay.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Sellendis
The Ares project
#35 - 2011-12-22 16:42:55 UTC
@Seleene

Are there any info on CCP giving us the option to use some old stuff (like old font and so on) or are they gonna shove new things down our throats and call it a day.
Since most of our complains and issues are mostly ignored in test server feedback. Now we have (for some) ugly font and a background so bright you cant read the letters. Is this a done thing, or is CCP gonna take a second look.
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#36 - 2011-12-22 18:27:13 UTC
I LOVE the idea of "if NeX must exist, make prices lower."

Everything in there needs to be 1/10 the price, and destructible.

Also, is it too difficult to allow players an ability to design articles of clothing, submit them like Alliance logos, and have CCP rubber-stamp the stuff for introduction to the NeX with a "Designed by: Person X" logo with 5% of the ISK (or Aur, if it MUST exist) go back to the designer?

This would definitely allow for unique Corp/Alliance uniforms, at the very least.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!
Written Word
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2011-12-22 19:09:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Written Word
Seleene wrote:
Nah, I'm pretty sure we made it clear what we think of Aurum and any future plans for it. It's impossible to say with any certainty what CCP will do about it but whatever it is, I don't think it will be more knee jerk stuff like we've seen in the past.


Its worrisome you used the words Convenience MTs as the name for that whole section, as that's something that hasn't been mentioned in the ongoing Aurum/MT debacle except in Fearless.

The less of Fearless we get in the ride forward, the better everybody would be.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#38 - 2011-12-22 19:23:38 UTC
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
I LOVE the idea of "if NeX must exist, make prices lower."

Everything in there needs to be 1/10 the price, and destructible.

Also, is it too difficult to allow players an ability to design articles of clothing, submit them like Alliance logos, and have CCP rubber-stamp the stuff for introduction to the NeX with a "Designed by: Person X" logo with 5% of the ISK (or Aur, if it MUST exist) go back to the designer?

This would definitely allow for unique Corp/Alliance uniforms, at the very least.

...and destructible.

This ^

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#39 - 2011-12-22 20:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Many thanks for the inside look.

If I may ask two questions, and I fully understand if the NDA precludes a clear answer.

1: What would be the difference (if any, other than name) between "micro-plex" and AURUM?

2: Was there any mention of the NeX store eventually being able to handle either selling BPC's, or instead being able to handle items other than AURUM for transactions (finished ships, materials, etc.)?

Thanks again!

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#40 - 2011-12-22 21:04:19 UTC
From the plex part of the writeup:

"Incursions got a lot of attention, with respect to how players have quickly figured out how to min / max everything to do with them. Obviously there needs to be some tweaks made but this is one of those good problems to have because it shows how many people are actually using the feature."

Of course, people are using the feature that provides 2-4xs as much isk as any other high sec pve activity. The fact that incursions pay so disproportionately high *masks* whether they are in fact a good feature or not. Make any pve activity in high sec pay that much more than every other and there will be many people doing it. That doesn't mean that feature is any good.

The only way we can tell if incursions are really a good/fun feature is to put their payouts in line with other high sec activities.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815