Intergalactic Summit

What a sick and sad way to view the universe. You think conquest and slavery is peace and civilization. If you make your own definitions you can go with this. I guess you have no definition for technologically advanced barbarians if they win, correct? I feel a great deal of pity for you pilot. I will add you to my prayer list that the damage inflicted upon you one day heals and you can view the universe as it has the potential to be and not just as a callous rationalization for current and past evils performed.

Actually I find that potential a little intriguing, but I start with a core perspective that constantly argues caution:

Human beings are only ever animals. We flatter ourselves if we believe we have "risen above" our biology. The process and point of civilization is to coax or trick us into behaviors that allow for stuff like accounting firms and institutions of higher learning.

Failure is to be expected. Human beings will tend to default to animal behavior. Success is what's remarkable.

Making the ideal the enemy of the workable is therefore not a great idea. There's no need, or value, in rejecting the solid ground beneath our feet just because it isn't what we'd like it to be. Better to move deliberately, one step at a time, than to make a scramble for what might easily be unobtainable-- and risk sliding back into the dark.

Perhaps, eventually, step by step, we might look up one day and find ourselves in that universe you're hoping for.

You might be misunderstanding me a little, Mr. Ronin.

Technology is a tool kit, not a goal. It requires a certain level of sophistication and cooperation to manufacture and keep running, so stuff like what we have has some steep prerequisites, but it's not an end in itself.

The "end," the goal, is for people to be able to live, and love, and grow old, and die in relative peace, in as large a number as can be managed, without having to fear what people living nearby are going to do to them.

Providing a place where people can live their lives: that's what a civilization is for, in the end.

Of places I've visited, the Federation probably does the best job of providing this from day to day. I really kind of like the Federation (even if I don't have a place there). It's unclear whether it's stable, though: the occasional tilts toward fascism, the tendency to undercut their own most foundational beliefs, the willingness to accept even the most obviously destructive ideas into their society....

It's neat. I like it. ... But the most marvelous thing about it seems, to me, to be that it's still there, still a democracy, in spite of everything. I'd like to visit again some day and see whether I'm really missing something important.

The Amarr have built to last. Their hierarchy is strong, but also nuanced enough that conflicts and abuses of power don't just build up and build up. And, it's all bound together by faith.

There are aspects of it that scare and upset me. I'm neither blind nor deaf, whatever Miz thinks (and her opinion is dust to me, by the way; it's you I'm talking to, Mr. Ronin). It doesn't make their accomplishments meaningless, though.

The current balance of power is okay with me. I don't really want to see anyone else conquered; I kind of hope there'll never be another Reclaiming by force. I also don't think the Empire's fall, if it ever came, would be good for anybody at all. The Amarrian faith's error state is called Sani Sabik, and we've got enough of that awfulness going on as it is.

Those aren't my choices to make, though. We all have our own priorities and struggles. I don't have any loyalties to any cause in particular, so, mine are personal. I play my part in things, which is to aid and protect Praefecta Daphiti. It's her, not the Empire, that I'm loyal to, even if the effect is a little similar.

She's a good person, so, that's not a difficult thing for me to do, or be.

Y'know, I really love this description of the Federation. The Federation is the "Great Experiment" of New Eden. It's grand experiment is if a nation conceived on the idea of liberty for all can endure through hardship, war and the great test of time. There is no nation in the cluster that's past criticism, and while the Federation is one of these nations, it can and will improve through its system. I'm proud to say that while the Federation may not be the oldest or most centralized faction within New Eden I think that it will endure because of the people who protect and cherish its ideals of liberty for all.

I have to agree. I really do think that sometimes I take my ideals too far, post about them too much, talk about them too much and I think that sets people against me. I am a publicly elected representative. I should hold myself to a higher standard than making fun of capsuleers who think differently than me on routers..

Mr. Ronin, the credo of my sect is to look truth in the face, unblinking. I try to see as much as I can-- the good in people, the bad in people. As a rule, I just decline to weigh them.

Mostly, I observe. I try to see, instead of judging.


Maybe, but....

If I were enslaved, well-- it feels nice to imagine myself rebelling or making my captors kill me or something. I'm aware of at least one person who showed that kind of endurance.

I don't think I have that kind of strength, though. I don't think most people do. Probably I'd be too tired and in too much pain to seriously consider defiance. The Amarrian system's had a lot of practice dealing with people who'd like to think of themselves as rebels.

Probably I'd play along. I'd do the chores, learn the prayers and hymns. I might even raise any children I had to be good and obedient Amarr-- it's the most likely way they'd be able to live happy and peaceful lives (though that wouldn't be anywhere near a guarantee).

I'd do and say what was expected of me. Maybe, eventually, I might even forget that I don't agree and don't believe. Maybe the influence would really be that strong, and I'd eventually believe for real, however alien that idea seems to me now.

Or maybe one day I'd filch a paring knife from the kitchen, and they'd find me later lying in a little clotted pool.

I wish that hypothetical self well, but I hope I'm never her.

(Yes, I've thought about this a little.)


"Good" is whatever people judge locally (sometimes even individually) as beneficial. "Evil" is what is judged locally (sometimes even individually) as baneful.

I'm a moral relativist, Mr. Ronin. The universe shows no sign of having a moral polarity to it. ... Only other humans, and the consequences we create, will probably ever be our judges. The gods, if they exist, seem to stand apart and watch the drama of creation spin on.

It's a drama without clear lines or rules. Acts of great kindness can cause profound harm. Acts of great cruelty can bring profound benefit. And the only true law is the one that cannot be broken.

I don't believe the Amarr are heroes; I also don't believe the Matari are villains. I don't believe the reverse, either. I think you're pretty much all just "people." The universe is short on heroes and villains because there is no objective, or even agreed, standard by which to define them.

Sometimes killing "people" is my proper place and role in things. It's not because they're evil, or because I'm good, or the reverse. It's because I have orders I'm sworn to obey, founded in an oath made to a person I admire and trust, and I will honor that oath.

That is the part I play. Or a part. There are others. Taken together, they define the path that is "right" for me: my place in this universe.

If that horrifies you, that's something you and many Amarr have in common.

Oops. Hehee. Yeah, I kinda slipped into portentious-voice, didn't I?

I think I was trying to make the point that these are things that stand out to me as important-- key to my sense of self, even.

I take integrity seriously. If I made an oath (which I did) of my own free will (which I did) and without deception (which it was) and so on ...

A promise of that kind becomes pretty central to my sense of who I am. So, if I'm talking about it as though my oath were a state of being instead of an action taken, I guess, maybe ...

... that's because, to me, it is?

I'm curious what facts you think I've omitted.

... only, I can kind of guess. I wasn't lurid enough for you.


... hm. I might have put things a little delicately, but I kind of thought a lot was implied in the words, "Probably I'd be too tired and in too much pain to seriously consider defiance."

If I were a slave, I'd be first generation. That I likely wouldn't have a lot of strength left for revolt doesn't mean my captors would be able to assume that would always be so. I wouldn't be very useful in any of the places where I'm strongest. My thoughts couldn't be trusted. My skills couldn't be trusted. My knowledge couldn't be trusted. My faith couldn't be trusted. If they wanted to be sure to keep me from mischief, they'd need to put me somewhere I couldn't do a lot of damage.

(Maybe TCMC's could get around a lot of this. Brr. There's a creepy thought.)

(Also, I'm of the Achur clerical caste and religiously trained, so, there's that.)

That ... kind of leaves menial labor of some kind (or something sadder), and not the kind that would let me near electronics or delicate machinery.

I'm little. I'm quick, but leverage is a problem when it comes to strength. I don't think the idea of being put to menial labor and possibly forced to bear children against my will (which could be oh so many different shapes and kinds of horrible) is particularly "cute." It's also a kind of likely thing, and something I've kind of seen ... happen to people.

There are sadder options along similar themes. I'm little. I'm exotic (outside of capsuleer culture, Achura are rare). I'm apparently considered pretty. It would be nice to think that wouldn't matter.

That would be nice.

I hope you'll forgive me for not dwelling in lurid detail on the possibilities here, or the kinds of compounded awfulness it would be apt to develop into over time. That's the sort of account probably better left to people who have lived through such things.

I'm grateful not to have had to.


I don't recognize myself in your words, Mr. Ronin. All I see is your anger, and your frustration that I don't share it. ... and, since I don't see the Praefecta in your words, either, I probably never will.

To me, the Praefecta is someone who took me in, twice. The first time I was essentially a lost child, a wandering vagabond; the second, a killer covered in soot and blood. Each time, she found a place for me, soothed my fears and helped me grow or heal. She gave me a home. She didn't have to do that, either time. She lives her life with a thoughtful, mature warmth that's rare among capsuleers: strength without cruelty; compassion without naivete.

The virtues of my sect are humility, moderation, curiosity, and compassion. She doesn't follow our teachings, believes in her own god, but I've met no capsuleer who embodies them so well-- but maybe for one. And he was Amarr, also.

Poor Dr. Sarain....

I more than trust her. I owe her more than I can repay. I'd die to protect her and consider it a privilege.

And you want to call that amoral? And call her evil?

Then you're a fool, Mr. Ronin. You make me proud to be what you consider wrong.

Pretty sure she's referring to Lunarisse Aspenstar who played a big part in many of the rescue operations for Nauplius' towers. She provided aid for those rescued not necessarily freedom, though I don't think allowing those rescued to live another day in relatively better situations should be taken as badly.

On another note, any more details come out on what happened to Dr. Sarain? I don't kwow if I just missed any closure on that or if it just stopped being talked about.

Well, where ever he is I hope he's in a better place. I do have to say though, are we all 100% sure he isn't still buying slaves? Simply stopping doesn't seem to be something who would destroy a freighter full of slaves would do on a whim, nor can I believe he is trust worthy enough to take his word at face value.