These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

927 Combat Roam, Ships & Ordnance Supplied!

Author
Matar Ronin
#641 - 2017-03-26 17:38:52 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Price limit? Or just any alpha capable ship? I might have sonething for ya....
Alpha capable Minmatar ship.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Matar Ronin
#642 - 2017-06-22 20:57:22 UTC
Thanks for all the alpha capable designs submitted. We are now in the production phase.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Maria Daphiti
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#643 - 2017-06-22 21:04:14 UTC
My dragoon and I look forward to meeting swarms of Alpha pilots.
Matar Ronin
#644 - 2017-06-22 21:36:48 UTC
Maria Daphiti wrote:
My dragoon and I look forward to meeting swarms of Alpha pilots.

Would you care to list the names of the pilots that fly in "My dragoon"?

If you can not all will understand this is just an example of your imagination/bluster at work.

How did you become their leader?

What victories have they earned under your leadership?

How long have they been in existence?

Where might swarms of alphas engage or hope to encounter them?

Exactly how many ships constitute a dragoon?

All answers would prove instructive, I thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge.
Even with my grey hair I am not too old to learn new things.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Maria Daphiti
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#645 - 2017-06-22 21:45:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Daphiti
Matar Ronin wrote:
Maria Daphiti wrote:
My dragoon and I look forward to meeting swarms of Alpha pilots.

Would you care to list the names of the pilots that fly in "My dragoon"?

If you can not all will understand this is just an example of your imagination/bluster at work.

How did you become their leader?

What victories have they earned under your leadership?

How long have they been in existence?

Where might swarms of alphas engage or hope to encounter them?

Exactly how many ships constitute a dragoon?

All answers would prove instructive, I thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge.
Even with my grey hair I am not too old to learn new things.


Silly obtuse old Fedo. The dragoon is an amarr destroyer, a model of ship, I like to fly (and which has been in existence through the Empyrean era and before I assume). I can be found in the amarr/matari faction warzone, usually in a small plex with it. if you undocked every now and then, maybe you'd know all this?
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
#646 - 2017-06-22 22:11:30 UTC
... Maybe he's very indirectly suggesting you should capitalize "Dragoon," Ms. Daphiti?
Maria Daphiti
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#647 - 2017-06-22 22:18:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Daphiti
Aria Jenneth wrote:
... Maybe he's very indirectly suggesting you should capitalize "Dragoon," Ms. Daphiti?


I dunno. *shruggles* Seems a lotta text to waste to ask that. But if he wanted t' derail his own thread, fine by me!
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
#648 - 2017-06-22 22:34:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Maria Daphiti wrote:
I dunno. *shruggles* Seems a lotta text to waste to ask that. But if he wanted t' derail his own thread, fine by me!


Hm. Original meaning is just "mounted infantry," as in, "a company of dragoons." And, it refers to the individual, so, one soldier, one dragoon, two soldiers, two dragoons.

Maybe he mistook it for a different military collective noun? A squadron or legion or something?

An army?
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
#649 - 2017-06-22 22:37:17 UTC
My dragoons better, I sold it and bought an algos. Also, if its the fit im thinking of id love to see a dragoon take on five or six of thrm.
Matar Ronin
#650 - 2017-06-22 23:17:43 UTC
Maria Daphiti wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Maria Daphiti wrote:
My dragoon and I look forward to meeting swarms of Alpha pilots.

Would you care to list the names of the pilots that fly in "My dragoon"?

If you can not all will understand this is just an example of your imagination/bluster at work.

How did you become their leader?

What victories have they earned under your leadership?

How long have they been in existence?

Where might swarms of alphas engage or hope to encounter them?

Exactly how many ships constitute a dragoon?

All answers would prove instructive, I thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge.
Even with my grey hair I am not too old to learn new things.


Silly obtuse old Fedo. The dragoon is an amarr destroyer, a model of ship, I like to fly (and which has been in existence through the Empyrean era and before I assume). I can be found in the amarr/matari faction warzone, usually in a small plex with it. if you undocked every now and then, maybe you'd know all this?
Your piloting skills must be extraordinary, you can fend off "swarms" of alpha piloted cruisers from your solo destroyer.

This of course being impossible I thought you had some arcane category of organizing your ships with a name I was not familiar with.

I am not the most experienced combat pilot being an industrialist primarily so I am surprised that you'd be able to destroy "swarms" of alpha cruisers from a solo destroyer.

Now a "Swarm" is not an exact number but one might assume it would be larger than a squadron or a wing we all use in fleet organization. Just how many ships would constitute the "swarms" you would be ready to confront in your solo Dragoon Destroyer?

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
#651 - 2017-06-23 00:45:40 UTC
Uh ... I don't know if you'd specified "cruisers," earlier, Mr. Ronin. Anyway cruisers actually have slightly limited utility in the warzone, first because of the swarms of smaller ships that make basically anything but a destroyer-fit cruiser impractical, but also because they only fit into about half the plexes. This limits their applicability compared to basic destroyers (75%) or frigates (100%).

(Also, yes, I gather she's pretty good.)
Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
#652 - 2017-06-23 08:08:17 UTC
'Squads' and 'Wings' aren't particularly useful as a unit size anymore either. It'd appear he's rather out of the loop when it comes to these things. The problem a 'swarm' of Alphas would face when going up against a highly skilled Omega - both in terms of skillbooks shoveled into their cranium and combat experience - is that their performance would be almost certainly sub-par in a lot of very crucial areas.

Spirits below, given the Dragoon's fondness for Drones you couldn't even neuter it with EWAR. It'd be a slaughter.
Matar Ronin
#653 - 2017-06-23 09:36:25 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Uh ... I don't know if you'd specified "cruisers," earlier, Mr. Ronin. Anyway cruisers actually have slightly limited utility in the warzone, first because of the swarms of smaller ships that make basically anything but a destroyer-fit cruiser impractical, but also because they only fit into about half the plexes. This limits their applicability compared to basic destroyers (75%) or frigates (100%).

(Also, yes, I gather she's pretty good.)
I never specified ship type beyond "Alpha" accessibility. I find it hard to believe one Destroyer could survive swarms of alpha ships, all egos aside, at some point their combined dps surpasses what any solo destroyer can withstand.

The drones give additional firepower but against a swarm of twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty ships how long would they last?

Not to even mention the logi capabilities of the attacking swarm or their drones all targeting the solo doomed Dragoon Destroyer. A solo ship against a swarm of alpha piloted ships would perish, not even Titans take the field without support.

Kiss ass as much as you decide is appropriate but no one is "good" enough to defeat math.

The solo Dragoon Destroyer against a swarm of alpha piloted ships is toast, not without exacting a few kills possibly, but they would not be going home except by pod express. To think otherwise is childishly foolish.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#654 - 2017-06-23 09:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Matar Ronin wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Uh ... I don't know if you'd specified "cruisers," earlier, Mr. Ronin. Anyway cruisers actually have slightly limited utility in the warzone, first because of the swarms of smaller ships that make basically anything but a destroyer-fit cruiser impractical, but also because they only fit into about half the plexes. This limits their applicability compared to basic destroyers (75%) or frigates (100%).

(Also, yes, I gather she's pretty good.)
I never specified ship type beyond "Alpha" accessibility. I find it hard to believe one Destroyer could survive swarms of alpha ships, all egos aside, at some point their combined dps surpasses what any solo destroyer can withstand.

The drones give additional firepower but against a swarm of twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty ships how long would they last?

Not to even mention the logi capabilities of the attacking swarm or their drones all targeting the solo doomed Dragoon Destroyer. A solo ship against a swarm of alpha piloted ships would perish, not even Titans take the field without support.

Kiss ass as much as you decide is appropriate but no one is "good" enough to defeat math.

The solo Dragoon Destroyer against a swarm of alpha piloted ships is toast, not without exacting a few kills possibly, but they would not be going home except by pod express. To think otherwise is childishly foolish.


You have never heard of 'kiting', 'oversized afterburners', 'links', 'hardwire implants' and 'command burst', have you?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Null Ronin
#655 - 2017-06-23 10:26:22 UTC
Right on cue a foolish child appears, lol. (the commentary above)

What does a solo ship kite?
To whom does a solo ship give a command burst?
What hard wire implants make you invulnerable?
How much dps does it take to "alpha strike" a kill on a Dragoon Destroyer?

One Omega piloted Dragoon Destroyer versus swarms of alpha piloted frigates, destroyers, and cruisers and you'd bet on the Dragoon? My uncle Matar is correct when he says the number of fools is only slightly less than the number of stars in the universe.

I should know better then to expect sense from someone who can't even spell Cadillac correctly, what a moron.

I am thinking those swarms that were fielded by the Goons in their rise to power were lucky they never encountered a solo Dragoon Destroyer.

lol The things people will say because they think it is popular are amazing.

We are an EVE Online /Dust514 Alliance. Join and play today!

Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
#656 - 2017-06-23 10:52:19 UTC
Null Ronin wrote:
Right on cue a foolish child appears, lol. (the commentary above)

What does a solo ship kite?
To whom does a solo ship give a command burst?
What hard wire implants make you invulnerable?
How much dps does it take to "alpha strike" a kill on a Dragoon Destroyer?


So you genuinely know exactly **** all about capsuleer combat, roger. A solo ship kites whatever it wants to kite, when it's an Omega with good skills and fits versus Alphas with highly limited ship and fit selection, and equally poor skills to support them. A solo ship gives itself command bursts. This has been the case since command bursts and ships capable of carrying them came into being, you pillock. Hardwirings and implant sets in general provide massive performance increases that further exacerbates the already massive gap between alphas and omegas. Damage per second doesn't even come into play for alpha strikes, are you legitimately stupid or something?

Numbers might eventually win the field, this is usually true. However, you are completely ignoring the cost of that. By the time the Omega has to spend a minute and a half dropping into station to reship back into one of the three dozen reships they have ready, they'll have destroyed ten times as much as they've lost and you've wasted the time and money of a 'swarm' of newbies. In all likelihood, not even achieving an objective in the process.

You're investing the time and efforts of X amount of people, outmatched by a single Omega. Now imagine for a moment if there's two of them, or three? The performance increase when these are good pilots isn't even just cumulative. They become a whole greater than the sum of its parts.
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#657 - 2017-06-23 11:00:06 UTC
Null Ronin wrote:
Right on cue a foolish child appears, lol. (the commentary above)

What does a solo ship kite?
To whom does a solo ship give a command burst?
What hard wire implants make you invulnerable?
How much dps does it take to "alpha strike" a kill on a Dragoon Destroyer?

One Omega piloted Dragoon Destroyer versus swarms of alpha piloted frigates, destroyers, and cruisers and you'd bet on the Dragoon? My uncle Matar is correct when he says the number of fools is only slightly less than the number of stars in the universe.

I should know better then to expect sense from someone who can't even spell Cadillac correctly, what a moron.

I am thinking those swarms that were fielded by the Goons in their rise to power were lucky they never encountered a solo Dragoon Destroyer.

lol The things people will say because they think it is popular are amazing.


Let me guess. You have never heard of clonejacks. Some 'solo' pilots use their services.

And kiting is pretty standard for alot of solo pilots. Anyone who has ever landed in a complex right smack within the sights of a railgun Cormorant or a Garmur sitting at 20km+ knows what I'm talking about. It's even worse inside a complex since the ability to warp to a fleet member at 150km or more is disabled in there.

Hardwires do not make you invulnerable, but they will make you a darn arse to deal with. Have you ever fought against a Snake-augmented Dramiel, Garmur or Vagabond? Darn near impossible to catch without a very specific fleet composition, and they will thrash all the alpha frigate pilots in a heartbeat. Seen it happen before. How about a Crystal-augmented Cyclone? Good luck cracking that shield.

Dragoons aren't designed for alpha-strikes. They are designed to drain any poor sod who gets within its range and tear him or her to pieces with a swarm of drones. If you want alpha-strikes, look for a railgun Cormorant or an artillery Thrasher. If that Dragoon is designed to keep at range with something like, say, an oversized afterburner, you will have your fleet split, and every individual frigate that manages to get within range will be eliminated. Splitting enemies on grid is a staple solo pilot tactic. Since you aren't aware of this, I assume you have rarely dealt with a solo pilot.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
#658 - 2017-06-23 12:53:01 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
The drones give additional firepower but against a swarm of twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty ships how long would they last?


The better question honestly would be how long would they last on field upon seeing that on dscan before they simply warped off. If I was solo in a medium site (which I generally don't do for this very reason) and i saw more than one cruiser on dscan at short (5au) more than likely I'd be aligned out already, If local exploded by 20 people before seeing that I would probably be in warp at that time. Bravery isnt a synonym for stupidity. Never mind this kiting thing which is also true but given where I would imagine him conducting this operation isn't as common as simply not bothering.
Null Ronin
#659 - 2017-06-23 16:31:32 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Null Ronin wrote:
Right on cue a foolish child appears, lol. (the commentary above)

What does a solo ship kite?
To whom does a solo ship give a command burst?
What hard wire implants make you invulnerable?
How much dps does it take to "alpha strike" a kill on a Dragoon Destroyer?


So you genuinely know exactly **** all about capsuleer combat, roger. A solo ship kites whatever it wants to kite, when it's an Omega with good skills and fits versus Alphas with highly limited ship and fit selection, and equally poor skills to support them. A solo ship gives itself command bursts. This has been the case since command bursts and ships capable of carrying them came into being, you pillock. Hardwirings and implant sets in general provide massive performance increases that further exacerbates the already massive gap between alphas and omegas. Damage per second doesn't even come into play for alpha strikes, are you legitimately stupid or something?

Numbers might eventually win the field, this is usually true. However, you are completely ignoring the cost of that. By the time the Omega has to spend a minute and a half dropping into station to reship back into one of the three dozen reships they have ready, they'll have destroyed ten times as much as they've lost and you've wasted the time and money of a 'swarm' of newbies. In all likelihood, not even achieving an objective in the process.

You're investing the time and efforts of X amount of people, outmatched by a single Omega. Now imagine for a moment if there's two of them, or three? The performance increase when these are good pilots isn't even just cumulative. They become a whole greater than the sum of its parts.
You have been taking lessons from Arrendis. Winning an argument that has nothing to do with the point of discussion by creating a scenario off on a tangent. This pilot said her "Dragoon" singular tense was looking forward to swarms of alpha pilots. The consensus was despite her greater skill and weapons she would eventually be overwhelmed and sent home via pod express. Now you have created a scenario where she has multiple ships in a handy nearby station. Amazing!

Next time why don't you create your fiction without hijacking a real world conversation that is asking specific questions about fits and the dps required to "alpha strike" a Dragoon Destroyer. If you think Dragoon Destroyers are so powerful why is it no capsuleer alliance uses them in significant numbers?

Hell even the dim witted gank pilots do not fly Dragoons. But with your greater experience then mine I am sure you still think you are right, lol, arrogance and stupidity the ying and yang of self righteous loudmouths.

We are an EVE Online /Dust514 Alliance. Join and play today!

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
#660 - 2017-06-23 16:47:52 UTC
Uh. Pilot?

When the Amarr militia says X, and the Minmatar partisans, militia or not, also say X, X is maybe a good bet?