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927 Combat Roam, Ships & Ordnance Supplied!

Author
Mika Firestorm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics
#41 - 2016-09-16 16:38:39 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Desiderya wrote:
Probably - freedom fighters were just an example. There are many Rebels With a Cause. They tend to try and go for brownie points before doing something whereas terrorists tend to collect their questionable laurels afterwards.

Excuse me, but the concept of chaos fighters is straightforward dumb. I would set them even below terrorists, who at least know what they are doing. And having a chaos as a cause is basically equal to having no cause.


You really need to stop equating 'freedom' with 'chaos'. Freedom is self-determination, nothing more. It is exactly what the Caldari people sought when the CEP declared the foundation of the Caldari State and their secession from the Gallente Federation.

It is Napanii language. Chaos and freedom are the same word for her. If you say or write 'chaos', she will hear or read 'Vaajpa'. If you say or write 'freedom', she will see or hear 'vaajpa' as well. When she will say 'vaajpa' you will hear 'freedom' or 'chaos' depending on translator configuration. If you think it is confusing, ask her to talk in other language, for example, Achura, I believe they have separate words for that.

State the nature of your medical emergency

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2016-09-16 16:53:05 UTC
How about she just checks a dictionary, since no-one else is using the Napanii language?
Matar Ronin
#43 - 2016-09-16 16:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Matar Ronin
Arrendis wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Desiderya wrote:
Probably - freedom fighters were just an example. There are many Rebels With a Cause. They tend to try and go for brownie points before doing something whereas terrorists tend to collect their questionable laurels afterwards.

Excuse me, but the concept of chaos fighters is straightforward dumb. I would set them even below terrorists, who at least know what they are doing. And having a chaos as a cause is basically equal to having no cause.


You really need to stop equating 'freedom' with 'chaos'. Freedom is self-determination, nothing more. It is exactly what the Caldari people sought when the CEP declared the foundation of the Caldari State and their secession from the Gallente Federation.
It is only natural that Pilot Kim equates freedom with chaos. The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation.

Subsequently using the model of what freedom from the orderly governing Federation wrought for the Caldari people, that was then indoctrinated into her obviously pliable mind as being the fault of the Gallente, she actually could think, with years of Caldari megacorp mangled leadership history to back her up, that chaos is indeed the result of people questioning authority and seeking self determination.

Poor simple Pilot Kim's entire life experience has been in the turbulence created by the chaos caused by the CEP's duplicity against the then young Federation.

In her own twisted and pathetic fashion she adores actual chaos, as demonstrated by her being smitten by the vicious criminal racist thug Tibus Heth. One can easily note that she mimics his brutal criminal low iq racism in almost every response to opposing points of view here on IGS.

Although she is a generator of a steady stream of hate speech Pilot Kim is deserving only of pity, the forces that twisted her into such a dim blunt instrument of hate came from the very heart of chaos.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2016-09-16 17:25:29 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation.


Oh, good grief. No, they didn't.

The Federation Senate caused the chaos when they demanded Caldari corporations turn over colonies whose existence predated the formation of the Federation. It was a naked attempt to seize control of assets that were legitimately the property of the Corporations.
Matar Ronin
#45 - 2016-09-16 17:37:44 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation.


Oh, good grief. No, they didn't.

The Federation Senate caused the chaos when they demanded Caldari corporations turn over colonies whose existence predated the formation of the Federation. It was a naked attempt to seize control of assets that were legitimately the property of the Corporations.
One day you will learn lying about history does not change it.

Hopefully on that day you will also learn that trolling with wild eyed bluster, despite the pats on the back from your groupies, does not actually win a debate.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2016-09-16 17:51:34 UTC
And precisely what am I supposed to be lying about?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2016-09-16 18:20:51 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation.


Oh, good grief. No, they didn't.

The Federation Senate caused the chaos when they demanded Caldari corporations turn over colonies whose existence predated the formation of the Federation. It was a naked attempt to seize control of assets that were legitimately the property of the Corporations.
One day you will learn lying about history does not change it.

Hopefully on that day you will also learn that trolling with wild eyed bluster, despite the pats on the back from your groupies, does not actually win a debate.

Whatever the events leading up to the secession, the Federation responded by embargoing the planet and then bombing it. They tried to prevent Caldari self-determination by using force.

If you were a legitimate idealist and not a thug with an excuse for murder, you'd have consistent beliefs and not politically expedient ones.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Elmund Egivand
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
#48 - 2016-09-16 18:25:53 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
The Caldari who followed the then rogue criminal organization of CEP created chaos in the Federation.


Oh, good grief. No, they didn't.

The Federation Senate caused the chaos when they demanded Caldari corporations turn over colonies whose existence predated the formation of the Federation. It was a naked attempt to seize control of assets that were legitimately the property of the Corporations.
One day you will learn lying about history does not change it.

Hopefully on that day you will also learn that trolling with wild eyed bluster, despite the pats on the back from your groupies, does not actually win a debate.


I know very well what the Gallente Federation did for us, but we must also look at the Federation's history with clear eyes. Just because they are our allies does not immediately turn them into Sefrims. They, just like us, have their own skeletons in their closets.

Like it or not, the Federation are not Sefrims. They are very much capable of disproportionate retribution. Nice people, usually, but threaten them, take away their creature comforts, and you will earn yourself a very vicious foe, as the Caldari had learnt. If it weren't for the very convenient timing of Colelie (both sides being occupied by the enemies across our respective borders), I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Federation citizens ride the jingoist militant wave and elect yet another U-Nat or advocate military action against us.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Matar Ronin
#49 - 2016-09-16 18:43:06 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

Hello, my name is Arrendis Culome, a Director of Goonswarm Federation. My primary responsibility is doctrinal design as a member of our Fitting Team, with secondary responsibilities including the training and coordination of fleet logistics and logistics leads for all combat operations. Oh, and strategic planning is in there somewhere, too.

So, yeah. It's my job to run the numbers on the scenarios everyone thinks 'heh, we should totally go do...' but have no idea how far they're actually short of being at all capable of achieving.

If I ever have to suffer a Cluster wide humiliating defeat and need to retreat from numerous systems like a whipped cur, while cowardly abandoning previous allies that I will then subsequently categorize as dead weight, I certainly would consider the council of your proven logistical expertise in such matters.

Few others can claim to have that actual experience, even fewer would brandish it as a badge of honor.

So I wish you good luck at proudly proclaiming to all who might listen, that you are one of of the primary architects of what has now scornfully become known and will be remembered as “World War Flee!”.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2016-09-16 21:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
You know, you really should listen to Aria.

Everyone loses wars. There was, in fact, no way we weren't going to lose that war. By the time the real dogpiling began, the largest chunk of the Coalition had been fighting a constant defensive war on the behalf of SMA for five solid months. The main fighting strength of the Imperium had had no breaks, no time to recharge. The line was frazzled and fed up with entosis warfare. That made an already untenable situation worse.

The basic problem though, was that we occupied far too large of a footprint. Efforts had already been made to consolidate. Other efforts were underway. A fair number of the outlying alliances, however, saw no benefit in reducing the coalition's footprint. As the war progressed, many of them changed their minds, but not all. As a result, by the time the fight for the M-O Ihub happened, we were sending fleets across three regions to support allies who weren't pitching in for defend anyone's space but their own.

All of this contributed to a scenario where the social fabric of the coalition was rather weakened and stressed, but at no time did we abandon our allies. When Circle-of-Two flipped, that action was planned well ahead of time, and even their top strategic FC, Sebastien Saintfrusquin, openly contradicted the claims that we hadn't supported them. Only an absolutely freak bit of luck prevented the destruction of the LAWN and Bastion supercapital fleets. In light of the resulting strategic situation, there was really no way to win. The best we could have hoped for was a delaying action—to spend our strength holding space for as long as possible.

That, however, would not have changed the outcome in the long run. The one thing unifying our enemies and giving them focus was us. In light of that, clear-eyed assessment of the situation forced us to come to the conclusion that as long as there was something of ours to destroy, the enemy would remain implacable. Fighting would not have actually allowed us to retain our space, and would simply have bled our strength. So we didn't. Instead, we conserved our strength and preserved our combat effectiveness.

As a result, in less than a month, we've secured Delve and are degrading enemy positions in Fountain and Querious. TNT, Bastion, and LAWN are still here, and the coalition is far more unified than ever before. Meanwhile, our numbers have remained steady. Compare that to the experiences of TEST, Nulli (Oh, wait, they're gone), Darkness, HONOR, GClub, and others who've lost wars for their space. Six months to a year in the Lowsec militia warzones doing contract work, trying to rebuild their numbers and their wallets.

Obviously, we'd have preferred not to lose the war. We did, after all, want that space. At no point was that actually an achievable goal, however. All things considered, I'm rather satisfied. Tell me, since you're so critical of it: how would you have looked after the needs of over 15,000 pilots in that situation?

Oh, and one other thing:

Arrendis wrote:
And precisely what am I supposed to be lying about?


You still haven't answered the question. Maybe you should do that, instead of simply trying to deflect and change the subject.
Matar Ronin
#51 - 2016-09-17 03:28:50 UTC
Perhaps expecting a goon to recognize the truth was extremely naive on my part.

Almost as naive as expecting an IGS goon trolling specialist to admit when she is caught blatantly, provably lying.

This time I won't give you the chance mix together a bunch more statements so you can answer a tiny small part and then act like it applies to the whole.

So you remain just a common liar despite your efforts to go back and add or edit remarks.

Perhaps you really can't tell the difference between what is real and what you have just whipped up in your mind, like your assumption of what I plan for the 927 Roam Attack when you don't know me or have any real way to know. But with you obviously facts are optional when you can fill the the blanks with your own self assured baseless juvenile conclusions.

Your lies are in writing, live with that fact, or just continue to pretend you don't understand, it fits the stereotype of goons being none too bright.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2016-09-17 03:41:30 UTC
In other words, you've got nothing you can actually point to as me lying, and you have no idea for how you would have done things differently. All you have is invective. All you ever have is invective and posturing.
Matar Ronin
#53 - 2016-09-17 03:47:40 UTC
Still trying to play the victim? Just as pathetic in defeat in the forums as you are in war in space.

I can now truly see how you could be one of the primary architects of "World War Flee!"

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2016-09-17 03:50:44 UTC
Quote:
All you ever have is invective and posturing.
Matar Ronin
#55 - 2016-09-17 03:55:43 UTC
At such a pathetic loss for words you have devolved to quoting yourself. It's okay no need to go away sad, just go away. You know, like your entire alliance did in "World War Flee!"

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2016-09-17 04:01:37 UTC
And yet more invective and posturing. You were warned about the futility of trying to get under my skin. But please, feel free to keep demonstrating my point.
Matar Ronin
#57 - 2016-09-17 04:14:30 UTC
Yes that is why you keep trying to have the last word. Because the truth doesn't penetrate your thick skull or skin correct?
Perhaps if you spent less time trolling threads on IGS and more times being a big wheel part of the goonie leadership your alliance won't get rolled over so easily again like they just did in "World War Flee!"

Or maybe not, because by your own admission it was the bad leadership and poor tactical logistics, your specialty right, that allowed the goons to bite off more space than they could chew which led to your eviction and humiliating defeat in "World War Flee!"

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Elmund Egivand
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
#58 - 2016-09-17 04:36:55 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Yes that is why you keep trying to have the last word. Because the truth doesn't penetrate your thick skull or skin correct?
Perhaps if you spent less time trolling threads on IGS and more times being a big wheel part of the goonie leadership your alliance won't get rolled over so easily again like they just did in "World War Flee!"

Or maybe not, because by your own admission it was the bad leadership and poor tactical logistics, your specialty right, that allowed the goons to bite off more space than they could chew which led to your eviction and humiliating defeat in "World War Flee!"


Matar Ronin. When's the last time you played a 4X holo-game? You try to simulate the exact situation of the Clusterfuck Coalition, or Imperium, or whatever it was they are calling themselves these days, with a limited number of active troops and a HUGE territory to cover, and tell me you are able to actually win that kind of war.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2016-09-17 04:40:49 UTC
Reading comprehension remains not your strong suite. You've now conflated strategic planning and fleet logistics—which is the role of ships like Scimitars and Guardians—into something you're calling 'tactical logistics' and yet still seem to think has some effect on what space our allies held.

And still, you're unable to actually single out a lie I've told. Not even about 'history', which you trotted out specifically when I pointed out that the Federation had initiated the 'chaos' surrounding Caldari independence. Instead, your response to being asked to back up your claim that I've lied is evasiveness and attempts to deflect. You can't actually support your accusation, so you keep insisting that losing an unwinnable war is somehow shameful—but of course, when invited to say what you would have done differently... you have nothing to say.

Does it really chafe so badly to have your ridiculous plans dissected and shown to be utter fantasy?
Felise Selunix
Keyholder Investment Group
#60 - 2016-09-17 05:04:03 UTC
I'm interested in Commander Best Practices answers to these questions as well, though I doubt he has any:

Arrendis wrote:

Obviously, we'd have preferred not to lose the war. We did, after all, want that space. At no point was that actually an achievable goal, however. All things considered, I'm rather satisfied. Tell me, since you're so critical of it: how would you have looked after the needs of over 15,000 pilots in that situation?

Oh, and one other thing:

Arrendis wrote:
And precisely what am I supposed to be lying about?


You still haven't answered the question. Maybe you should do that, instead of simply trying to deflect and change the subject.


Moreover, I'm fascinated by the fact that he's gone out of his way not to answer those questions while attempting to denigrate the questioner. I suspect that the answer is obvious, but every time he answers with insults and condescension, it gets more entertaining and informative. What insults and deflections will he trot out next? I have a side bet with some friends and I think I'll win Smile