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927 Combat Roam, Ships & Ordnance Supplied!

Author
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#501 - 2016-12-02 17:11:51 UTC
I think you're far too close to the slavers to be an objective arbiter of this subject Pilot Jenneth.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#502 - 2016-12-02 17:14:21 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
I think you're far too close to the slavers to be an objective arbiter of this subject Pilot Jenneth.

Probably. Did I seem to be offering to arbitrate?
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#503 - 2016-12-02 17:19:42 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
We should all be aware that the former slave who sings the loudest about the glory of having been enslaved here on IGS was the first to purchase her own family out of it's clutches.

The disgusting pretense of cloaking themselves in the ritual garments of religious enlightenment is revealed to be just another shabby rag of self serving lies wrapped around broken people trying to convince themselves and others they are now cleansed of the "wrongness" of their birth not being amarrian, it is indeed the mental illness of self loathing on the highest judas goat level. Tragic she remains shackled and collared in her mind. All the titles and pats on the head from her masters can not fix her, only learning the true nature of loving humanity equally will pull her from the cesspool she currently inhabits.





Hey bro,

Sorry you had a bad time of it. I know when I was a slave, I had a great family. The misery for me didn't start until I was "rescued."

The Scriptures are right in that we're all slaves, after a fashion. You have to figure out who you're going to serve. Freedom, true freedom is an illusion. It's a paper fantasy where things like free will matter.

Look...time does not exist in a linear fashion, right? We only perceive it linearly (past, present, future). It exists as a whole in space/time. But we cheat that illusion when we go faster than light. So you're never truly "free." Everything you have done/are doing/will do, it's all the same. Call it fate if you must. or "God's Will." You're a slave to that, you're a slave to the serotonin your brain produces. You're a slave to your lived experience. You tie yourself to a group, an organization, a family, a government. Or you leave it all and wander. You live, fight and die for these things. You think it's because you're free to choose, but really, you're following a script that's in part, written by your own subconscious.

There can be a purity in slavery. A caring symbiosis. The owners aren't free either. They're tied to the care and upkeep of their slaves and are slaves in turn to those above them in whatever society they belong to.

All that anger you have is pointed at an institution that's as inexorable as death or taxes. It's a part of the human condition.

So what's a better plan? Do you rattle your chains and dream of the illusion of escape and destroy everything around you in impotent rage, or do you take that boundless energy and create something better with it?

You have choice. You can't not be a slave, but you can choose to be a better one.

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#504 - 2016-12-02 17:26:37 UTC
Not explicitly but, you do seem to come to the defense of the slavers quite frequently.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#505 - 2016-12-02 17:30:00 UTC
I can't imagine a single case where slavery is acceptable. Whether they are the kindest slave holder imaginable or your boogeyman Nauplius, the fact remains that both are stripping the right to self determination from a sentient being.

There is much talk about how the aim of the practice of slavery is a humanitarian effort by the Amarr to civilize 'lesser' races and bring them to the 'light of God' but anyone with eyes to see can see the true goal of this practice, namely the concentration of wealth and power by one group who claim superiority by strength of arms alone.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#506 - 2016-12-02 17:38:36 UTC
tl;dr. Some people aren't treated as horrifyingly badly as others. This makes it okay.
Solun Usoko
Ancestors Circle
#507 - 2016-12-02 17:50:29 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
tl;dr. Some people aren't treated as horrifyingly badly as others. This makes it okay.

Just to play slaver's advocate, how closely does your employment with Coreli place you to Angels operations?
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#508 - 2016-12-02 18:17:13 UTC
Opposite side of the map, as far as I know. Unless the goons, Co2, Test, Tard etc etc have found themselves in the Angels' crosshairs somehow.

Actually, might as well go public now since there's no one to keep it from anymore:

I have spent the last seven months or so gaining access to Coreli Corp, and Coreli Syndicate's bio-engineering data, which is rather extensive and far surpassing any other such available source that I am aware of. Of course, this hardly came as a surprise to my current employers since I didn't really bother making a secret of it. Pragmatic as mercenaries tend to be, it's largely a matter of "Yeah we know you have ulterior motives, but as long as you bring the big guns and big reps to our ongoing contracts, we still come out ahead. Welcome aboard."

Professional mercenaries as they are, they've let me achieve what I've set out to do in return for my combat abilities and the first step towards a greater project has been taken, and furthermore it may actually be vastly improved compared to its initial conception by recent developments regarding the NETC network.

For over half a decade now, I have on and off tried to get interested parties to come together for an Insorum Component Research Project that would take the currently unstable and dangerous Insorum Components I've obtained and attempt to improve our understanding of it to the point where we could mass produce a safer and better version that'd essentially turn Vitoxin and Vitoc worthless.

No one was particularly interested, other than slavers and criminals, funnily enough. I am not a scientist myself and no one among the Tribe loyalists who are seems to care if it's related to our people still stuck in the Empire.

As I now have capsuleer access to Serpentis bio-engineering data - the most extensive and knowledgeable people in New Eden when it comes to booster research and other such things - such a project is much closer to being a reality. Ironically, me being a part of Coreli Corporation and Mercenary Coalition has now given me vastly greater opportunities when it comes to setting up something that truly matters when it comes to helping my people than any of the 'loyalist' entities have cared to even dream of.

My reputation and word becoming understandably nigh worthless due to my associations is a steep price, but one that I'll pay for a chance to have a lasting effect like this. I hold no ill will at all towards those who would now dismiss me due to my employer now being a permanent part of my history, as that is exactly how it should be. Choices like these should have consequences. My reputation should be tarnished by this. I should be questioned about how my associations affect others, and whether my actions cause harm to people of the Tribes.

In due time, as funds and my current research access allows, I will have a very sizable answer provided in the form of a significant scientific endeavor aimed right at the heart of Vitoxin, Vitoc and by extension, the Empire's practice of slavery through horrifying vitoc dependency.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#509 - 2016-12-02 18:26:16 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Not explicitly but, you do seem to come to the defense of the slavers quite frequently.

Well, that's a little true.

This is my home, Ms. Rella. Most of the people I'm closest to are Amarrian commoners, plus a Holder. The things people like Mr. Ronin say about them don't match up to my experience at all, and I don't think it's because SFRIM is some kind of haven set up to trick outsiders. (It might be a haven, but, I don't think it's for that.)

I've seen sad things here. Horrors, too. ... but I've seen those almost everywhere I've gone, and I don't think that slavery is a uniquely awful thing in a universe that sometimes seems to run on blood.

You won't win this war militarily, Ms. Rella. You can't. Even if the Empire collapsed its faith and institutions world re-crystalize into something probably much darker. I can't really say what would emerge out of that kind of chaos, but the ingredients are there for something really dangerous: a thick soup of Sani Sabik, most likely.

In any case, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be what you hoped for. That leaves diplomacy, which tends to be easier if you skip the demonizing.

I kind of have hopes for Empress Catiz, but she'll need to have partners on the other side, too, if there's to be a lasting peace. And probably some assurances that this time a peace won't just be used to gear up for war.

I guess we'll see.
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#510 - 2016-12-02 18:46:49 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Not explicitly but, you do seem to come to the defense of the slavers quite frequently.

Well, that's a little true.

This is my home, Ms. Rella. Most of the people I'm closest to are Amarrian commoners, plus a Holder. The things people like Mr. Ronin say about them don't match up to my experience at all, and I don't think it's because SFRIM is some kind of haven set up to trick outsiders. (It might be a haven, but, I don't think it's for that.)

I am afraid your words fall on deaf ears, Ms. Jenneth. Some peoples believe in reason, others believe in facts. But with hatred blinding their eyes and mind there are no words and evidences that can shift their opinion. This is why we offer slavery, Ms. Jenneth. It works where words and evidences don't.

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Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#511 - 2016-12-02 19:51:04 UTC
This is a thing that a lot of people who fight wars don't really understand. It's something that for a long time I didn't understand, and there was a lot of pain in my life because of it.

Wars always end one of two ways: total annihilation or conversation.

In any war that isn't a war of absolute genocide, eventually, there must be negotiation. People have to sit down and discuss terms - terms of peace, terms of reparation, terms of surrender, but some sort of terms have to be reached, or the war can never end. There has to be someone to negotiate, someone to tell soldiers to lay down their arms and stop fighting. Wars are not ended by soldiers and battles, they're ended by diplomats and treaties. Some people will fight forever, even in the face of impossible odds, unless they're given a good enough reason to stop.

Even had the Minmatar Republic the military might to humiliate the Amarr Empire on every battlefield, eventually they would have to negotiate with the Amarr for the release of their people - indeed, the threat of what the Empire might do to its Minmatar slaves should terms of peace that guaranteed the safety of Amarr citizens not be offered might be a powerful bargaining chip. Since the Empire's military handily outclasses the Republic's, fighting is not a long-term solution to the problem.

Contrariwise, if the Amarr desire peace as much as they claim to, they will eventually have to put their pride and indignation and cries of "it was they who struck first this time" aside and actually talk to the Republic. They will have to negotiate. The Minmatar, for all their sins, have been given precious little reason to believe in peace and goodwill.

When all the bullets are fired and all the blood has been spilt and all the wives have been widowed and sons left fatherless, even then you will still have to talk with whoever is left. Why wait for it to reach that extremity?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#512 - 2016-12-02 20:18:16 UTC
I'd happily talk... once my people's freedom is on the table. Until then, there really isn't anything to talk about. The price of peace will be too steep. The continued suffering of too many people of my blood and spirit is a price so high that not even a peace that could be trusted - a subject that on its own would require a minor miracle - would be worth it.

There just isn't any alternative to the current path while the Empire still holds our people. Anything but a continued pressure would only let them further destroy what little is left of the Matari they hold.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#513 - 2016-12-02 20:37:47 UTC
I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. In fact, that's a large part of what I said about the Amarr having to put aside their indignation and self-righteousness and talk - unless they want further war. Ultimately, neither side will likely get ideal terms. One side claims to be dedicated to peace, while the other has made it very clear what they require if peace is to be had.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#514 - 2016-12-02 21:07:16 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I'd happily talk... once my people's freedom is on the table. Until then, there really isn't anything to talk about. The price of peace will be too steep. The continued suffering of too many people of my blood and spirit is a price so high that not even a peace that could be trusted - a subject that on its own would require a minor miracle - would be worth it.

There just isn't any alternative to the current path while the Empire still holds our people. Anything but a continued pressure would only let them further destroy what little is left of the Matari they hold.

People in the Empire are not yours, tribal. It is not for you to decide need they freedom or not.

And while you and your primitive kin will be bullying them, we will stand on their protection from criminal trash like you.
Long live the Empire, and glory to the State!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#515 - 2016-12-02 21:58:26 UTC
The lands inside the federation which were once caldari property are not yours to take. While you fight to take things that under your logic you have no claim to fight over, we stand with our federal brothers and sisters at arms from thieves like you.

Doesn't your words have a nice ring to them when returned to you? People in the empire are not worth us fighting for since they are owned by them. Are your lands worth fighting for? So aren't our kin.
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#516 - 2016-12-02 23:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Arnulf Ogunkoya
So, much to my surprise, I see Captain Ronin state that he used to be a Kaimeira. That would make him the third pilot of my acquaintance who says they have served as such.

Now I gather Kaimeira have quite the reputation for fanatical faith and loyalty. My father had the misfortune to fight against them in the Vindication wars as a Fleet Marines NCO and he generally held that the only way to stop them was to kill them. Oddly that uncompromising ferocity concentrated the minds of their opponents on doing just that very well. But that is a conversation for another place.

So, what is with the upswing in pilots with this background? At least two of which I know to be escapees. Is there some problem with modern Kaimeira training techniques?

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#517 - 2016-12-03 00:05:03 UTC
We're Kaimeiras also freed at the 8th generation mark as well? Maybe they got lax in their training regiments in anticipation?
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#518 - 2016-12-03 00:08:21 UTC
At this point it's like calling yourself a Valklear. Not something people who actually were one would do, with very few exceptions. No offense to any actual Valklear or Kameiras, but I'm going to doubt the claim by default and I'm sure you can understand why.
Matar Ronin
#519 - 2016-12-03 00:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Matar Ronin
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
So, much to my surprise, I see Captain Ronin state that he used to be a Kaimeira. That would make him the third pilot of my acquaintance who says they have served as such.

Now I gather Kaimeira have quite the reputation for fanatical faith and loyalty. My father had the misfortune to fight against them in the Vindication wars as a Fleet Marines NCO and he generally held that the only way to stop them was to kill them. Oddly that uncompromising ferocity concentrated the minds of their opponents on doing just that very well. But that is a conversation for another place.

So, what is with the upswing in pilots with this background? At least two of which I know to be escapees. Is there some problem with modern Kaimeira training techniques?
The training we under went while having a basis in the science of harshly controlled genetic selection/matching coupled with extreme physical and intellectual regimes produces a fighting soldier that few would stand a chance of defeating in direct personal combat, in any fight with odds of less then five to one against us we knew we had the actual tactical advantage.

The intense loyalty is founded on the strict control of all information Kaimeira forces are allowed access to, we were raised in a system that fed us lies designed and controlled to reinforce the desires of the slavery cultists that commanded us and selected our battles. However troops that are kept ignorant of salient facts all their lives are not stupid because of it, as time revealed actual facts that did not fit into the scenario spoon fed us by our captors the truth emerged and once revealed it could not be hidden again. We dedicated ourselves to excellence in the martial skills and the combat tactics that allowed for the success on the battlefield when we realized that our captors did not live up to the images of heavenly agents of a just God they tried to project.

In due time they learned a bit too late for their own survival that lying to the best trained, most capable combat soldiers in human history was a fools errand. The look of disbelief in the eyes of our commanding officer when I squeezed the life from him with my bare hands around his throat was a tiny reward for all my peers he sent to pointless deaths because he valued their lives less then he valued the rounds in his sidearm. By their ashes that are merged with my body I shall never forget what depths a human can be lowered to when they are raised on a sick lie hidden behind a false notion of an amoral God designed to service the base desires of a ruthless barbarian society.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#520 - 2016-12-03 00:33:54 UTC
Somewhat worrying aside: I could claim that I used to be an agent for Federal Intelligence, and that's actually both way less unbelievable and way harder to disprove.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.