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New PvE Idea - Site Instances and New Players
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Lugh Crow-Slave
#21 - 2016-09-10 12:05:22 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The other thing that promotes player cooperation is the risk that you get ambushed by bad guys.

Just say 'No' to instances.



wait wait wait...

are you saying that i could cooperate with other players to help defend ourselves from other players cooperation to harm us?

MADNESS !
MADNESS , LIE'S AND SLANDER!
Don't listen to him, This is an MMO after all, everyone knows you solo those.


oh thank god i was thinking i may actually need to talk to people (the scare me)Oops

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#22 - 2016-09-10 12:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
yeah... more player interaction... *starts logging in alts



Basically. High sp main and decent leveled alts built to certain specs crew checking in. After this account just came online a month ago from a year break I woke up another account last night. both have chars that fly mean pve ships. It why I woke account last night in fact. Pvp itch grows, that accounts main makes the money when the combat char can't. Just getting her up to speed since I put her on ice like 2.5 to 3 years ago....she needs some reeducation for skill changes

NIce instanced room all to my selves, fun fits, PVE smash, get paid.

OP this is why level 5's which also require teamwork in theory, were moved to low sec. Team work in time became dual boxed rattlesnakes. Passive tanked to ride out neuting from towers till you popped them. This the easy way...active tank freaks had their own issues to work out if they wanted to stay that way lol.


In low sec you need a team, hence the move.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#23 - 2016-09-10 13:14:49 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
not to mention the entire idea of an instance goes against a core value of eve

Zan Shiro wrote:
how can people reach you to interact with you in the sometimes non-conseual pvp way.

A response to both of these.
I do not see anywhere in the posts where the OP wants these sites restricted to the first fleet into them. I see a request for sites that require you to have a fleet to enter, that works for both sides. In reality this idea would do as much to promote group play from the PvP side as it would from the PvE side. Yes, yes I know the whole alts thingy and our friend Lugh leads us into that with this post.

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
yeah... more player interaction... *starts logging in alts

Need boosts log in an alt.
Need a cyno, log in an alt.
Need someone to scout that worm hole log in alt.
Need someone to combat scan that fool so you can kill him log in alt.
Need someone to bring you more ammo for a tower bash log in alt.
Need a little more to run that nul sec anom for ISKies log in alt.
Need a little more to run that worm hole for ISKies log in alt.
Need a scan character to help keep you safe while running that worm hole site log in alt.
Need someone to haul stuff into Jita for you log in an alt.
Need a market trader because low sec status log in an alt.
Do I need to continue or have I made my point.
Even more so in PvP than in PvE EvE is a game of alts. To condemn a PvE idea because "alts" when the game is flooded with PvP alts is well............ better not go there or the ISD may not like my post, so we will just say it is pathetic.

In other words if alts online is bad then we need to remove alts online from ALL aspects of the game. If alts are OK in some areas then they are OK in ALL areas.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#24 - 2016-09-10 13:19:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Donnachadh wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
not to mention the entire idea of an instance goes against a core value of eve

Zan Shiro wrote:
how can people reach you to interact with you in the sometimes non-conseual pvp way.

A response to both of these.
I do not see anywhere in the posts where the OP wants these sites restricted to the first fleet into them. I see a request for sites that require you to have a fleet to enter, that works for both sides. In reality this idea would do as much to promote group play from the PvP side as it would from the PvE side. Yes, yes I know the whole alts thingy and our friend Lugh leads us into that with this post.


Quote:
In other RPGs there is something called instances. Where you do a special dungeon (combat site) with a limited number of people. Lets say 4. Once 4 people apply for it they allow those people to access to a special area in space.


because thats how instances work in other games not to mention
Quote:
and Y number of people as maximum.

even if it didn't why should there be an area of space where i can't interact with you just because you have more alts than me?


and you can't just ignore alts because they are not going anywhere things have to be balanced with them in mind

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#25 - 2016-09-10 14:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Donnachadh wrote:

I do not see anywhere in the posts where the OP wants these sites restricted to the first fleet into them. I see a request for sites that require you to have a fleet to enter, that works for both sides. In reality this idea would do as much to promote group play from the PvP side as it would from the PvE side. Yes, yes I know the whole alts thingy and our friend Lugh leads us into that with this post.



He said 4 players enter and only 4 players. It be analogous to something warhammer online had long ago. They put these instances in the middle of the pvp lakes. All you had to do was make it the dungeon entrance (not hard). In the instance...you were off the grid and in your own world.


He is basing this on combat sites. He covered that. He however seems to be unaware keys to combat sites are available on the market. His idea has no key. 4 man fleet signs up and poof, its a scenario/instance pop. They will be back later sometime.
Eris Picornia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2016-09-10 16:25:25 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:

I do not see anywhere in the posts where the OP wants these sites restricted to the first fleet into them. I see a request for sites that require you to have a fleet to enter, that works for both sides. In reality this idea would do as much to promote group play from the PvP side as it would from the PvE side. Yes, yes I know the whole alts thingy and our friend Lugh leads us into that with this post.



He said 4 players enter and only 4 players. It be analogous to something warhammer online had long ago. They put these instances in the middle of the pvp lakes. All you had to do was make it the dungeon entrance (not hard). In the instance...you were off the grid and in your own world.


He is basing this on combat sites. He covered that. He however seems to be unaware keys to combat sites are available on the market. His idea has no key. 4 man fleet signs up and poof, its a scenario/instance pop. They will be back later sometime.


Yes, well ... I'm only saying my thoughts here. I didnt know this subject was brought before. I saw the first couple of pages and didnt saw anything related so I posted about it.

I'm not demanding or advising, just asking for opinions, so this is going great!. The idea is not protect the players inside the combat site, the idea is to stimulate coop mission running, because nowadays there absolutely no benefit on doing so.

I dont care if criminals warp to the site, if it follows FW mechanics, a mission lv2 would be runned by destroyers and only destroyers could enter the complex or combat site.

Also, answering that an alt could do that is not a good answer it's a very lame one... because if that's the argument people use, that applies for every other game and not even that. Bots an be programed to fulfill any role therefore why even bother in playing?... let's just simulate stuff....

I think if that option for coop combat sites exist would not alter current pvp, not alter current pve, just add more options to people explore.... and the programing behind is not that complicated as adding a completely new feature.

All coments here are gold!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#27 - 2016-09-10 16:36:36 UTC
Eris Picornia wrote:


(1)Yes, well ... I'm only saying my thoughts here. I didnt know this subject was brought before. I saw the first couple of pages and didnt saw anything related so I posted about it.

(2)I'm not demanding or advising, just asking for opinions, so this is going great!. The idea is not protect the players inside the combat site, the idea is to stimulate coop mission running, because nowadays there absolutely no benefit on doing so.

(3)I dont care if criminals warp to the site, if it follows FW mechanics, a mission lv2 would be runned by destroyers and only destroyers could enter the complex or combat site.

(4)Also, answering that an alt could do that is not a good answer it's a very lame one... because if that's the argument people use, that applies for every other game and not even that. Bots an be programed to fulfill any role therefore why even bother in playing?... let's just simulate stuff....

(5)I think if that option for coop combat sites exist would not alter current pvp, not alter current pve, just add more options to people explore.... and the programing behind is not that complicated as adding a completely new feature.

All coments here are gold!





1 top right of the forums is a search bar for future reference (its crap but can help)

2 in regards to missions not being proffitable in groups i will point you to #4

3 in FW a site that lets in destroyers also lets in everything smaller not only destroyers

4 the reason "alts can do it" is an argument is because you can't ballance to to pay 4 people otherwise one guy will do it and take it all. suddenly isk/hr becomes unbalanced

5 google eve incursion




BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Wimzy Chent-Shi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-09-10 19:54:31 UTC
Incursion communities, let's take HQ for instance:
1)Available within 21 days (wrote a guide on it https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5571020 ) easy at 30 days.
2)Up to 200M isk/hour + LP
3)40+ ppl communicate on teamspeak.
4)If fleet is full there is a queue "waitlist"
5)Have various sizes including newest scout sites which I have no intel on really.
6)Are instanced by single point of entry = acceleration gate (like also most of missions in the game)
Go fly incursions.

Come get some cancer @ my blog !

"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions. We are creating something here, that's productive, ...and then there is also salt." -Wimzy 2016
Iain Cariaba
#29 - 2016-09-10 20:10:50 UTC
@OP: In every MMO where there is any kind of "instanced" content, that content removes you from the general game world and gives you your own little world to play in where you cannot be effected by other players.

Any sort of Instance based game play goes against the grain of the open world sandbox game style that is EvE.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#30 - 2016-09-11 15:39:28 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:

I do not see anywhere in the posts where the OP wants these sites restricted to the first fleet into them. I see a request for sites that require you to have a fleet to enter, that works for both sides. In reality this idea would do as much to promote group play from the PvP side as it would from the PvE side. Yes, yes I know the whole alts thingy and our friend Lugh leads us into that with this post.



He said 4 players enter and only 4 players. It be analogous to something warhammer online had long ago. They put these instances in the middle of the pvp lakes. All you had to do was make it the dungeon entrance (not hard). In the instance...you were off the grid and in your own world.


He is basing this on combat sites. He covered that. He however seems to be unaware keys to combat sites are available on the market. His idea has no key. 4 man fleet signs up and poof, its a scenario/instance pop. They will be back later sometime.

When I read the OP I understood the 4 man fleet simply to be an example used to illustrate the point. Even if we take it literally as you have then all that is needed is a simple change to any fleet that enters must have at least four ships and problem solved, man up with a four ship fleet and in you go to do what ever you want to do.


Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
even if it didn't why should there be an area of space where i can't interact with you just because you have more alts than me?


and you can't just ignore alts because they are not going anywhere things have to be balanced with them in mind

Lets not pretend that you can go anywhere and everywhere you want to go in this game. Just a quick example there missions that only allow frigates, if you scan me down in your cruiser you cannot get into the site, so how would limits based on fleet size be any different than these based on ship size?

I am not ignoring alts, quite the contrary I am fully aware of alts and the basic need to have them in this game for many reasons. My point was simply that in a game where alts are everywhere to use the potential for alts as a reason to deny a change to the game is well, I still cannot go there so I will stay with pathetic.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2016-09-12 00:54:51 UTC
I can see sites that recommend not going in alone... presented as optional missions.

But don't instance it.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#32 - 2016-09-12 07:09:24 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:

I do not see anywhere in the posts where the OP wants these sites restricted to the first fleet into them. I see a request for sites that require you to have a fleet to enter, that works for both sides. In reality this idea would do as much to promote group play from the PvP side as it would from the PvE side. Yes, yes I know the whole alts thingy and our friend Lugh leads us into that with this post.



He said 4 players enter and only 4 players. It be analogous to something warhammer online had long ago. They put these instances in the middle of the pvp lakes. All you had to do was make it the dungeon entrance (not hard). In the instance...you were off the grid and in your own world.


He is basing this on combat sites. He covered that. He however seems to be unaware keys to combat sites are available on the market. His idea has no key. 4 man fleet signs up and poof, its a scenario/instance pop. They will be back later sometime.

When I read the OP I understood the 4 man fleet simply to be an example used to illustrate the point. Even if we take it literally as you have then all that is needed is a simple change to any fleet that enters must have at least four ships and problem solved, man up with a four ship fleet and in you go to do what ever you want to do.


Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
even if it didn't why should there be an area of space where i can't interact with you just because you have more alts than me?


and you can't just ignore alts because they are not going anywhere things have to be balanced with them in mind

Lets not pretend that you can go anywhere and everywhere you want to go in this game. Just a quick example there missions that only allow frigates, if you scan me down in your cruiser you cannot get into the site, so how would limits based on fleet size be any different than these based on ship size?

I am not ignoring alts, quite the contrary I am fully aware of alts and the basic need to have them in this game for many reasons. My point was simply that in a game where alts are everywhere to use the potential for alts as a reason to deny a change to the game is well, I still cannot go there so I will stay with pathetic.



but if i have a frig i can get in. if they have a max fleet size no matter what i do i can't get in

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2016-09-12 07:25:48 UTC
There's another option. Wormhole eddies: one-way, very low mass capacity. Once it collapses another entrance spawns (as per usual). That way you can get a small fleets in based on mass, yet nothing prevents a similar-sized fleet to crash the party.

One could essentially create separate grids accessible through beacons (like FW plexes) but the mass limit would prevent numerous odds piling up on one target (as well as prevent DScanning what they're jumping in to).

Just a thought on how this could be achieved -- not saying that it should.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2016-09-12 07:58:17 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The other thing that promotes player cooperation is the risk that you get ambushed by bad guys.

Just say 'No' to instances.



wait wait wait...

are you saying that i could cooperate with other players to help defend ourselves from other players cooperation to harm us?

MADNESS !
MADNESS , LIE'S AND SLANDER!
Don't listen to him, This is an MMO after all, everyone knows you solo those.


Ia Ia Cthulhu fatahgn Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2016-09-12 08:20:10 UTC
You really did copy that letter per letter didn't ya?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#36 - 2016-09-12 09:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
i thought it was funny

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#37 - 2016-09-12 16:44:27 UTC
Can I kill the other 3 people in that instance with me with no reaction from concord?
Eris Picornia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2016-09-12 17:09:15 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
There's another option. Wormhole eddies: one-way, very low mass capacity. Once it collapses another entrance spawns (as per usual). That way you can get a small fleets in based on mass, yet nothing prevents a similar-sized fleet to crash the party.

One could essentially create separate grids accessible through beacons (like FW plexes) but the mass limit would prevent numerous odds piling up on one target (as well as prevent DScanning what they're jumping in to).

Just a thought on how this could be achieved -- not saying that it should.


The mass option sounds actually pretty great! ... so my idea changed from lame copycat instances to awesome combat sites with good npc content restricting access to mass. They can spawn everywhere, null sec, low sec, high sec...

I think the main issue with ganking in null/low is due the local chat.... I know people already asked to remove the option to see who's in local based on chat...

The combat sites that limits mass could actually have no concord presence that would make things more spicy!
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