Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Every intel source is free. Small pieces to a larger puzzle. Mob mentality and buzzwords got watchlist the axe.

I say **** a lot. So what? Cursing is a good way to convey a strong feeling towards a subject. I feel strong about fixing locator agents.

Also I'm hardly insulting you. Which is kinda hilarious as you've gone out of your way to try and insult me.

Regardless if you want to generalize it sure. Watchlists where removed because of player privacy yeah?

Which was triggered byyyy





Honestly dude. I'm done with you. The only thing you have managed was to derail the conversation. You have no idea what your talking about. Your just arguing now because either one you like to argue. Or two you are to proud to let it go.

I've heard talk about the Observatory Array as a possible fix for the issue.


Which I am personally pretty down with. An attackable structure that can consolidate forces around in highsec sound good. More assets like that added to highsec and being useable in highsec fully is rarely a bad thing in my opinion.


However a Band-Aid fix like what Ralph is proposing seems like a good fix for the time being.

I honestly have no idea.

But I would hope that if they are capable of locating corps that must be dec with the owner for locates to work. But that only works with hunting a specific target in highsec really. So it honestly wouldn't benefit everyone and I would say that's a bad idea for that reason alone. Open locates on everyone I would have to say should require large amount of fuel.

For lowsec/Null I could only say maybe the Array has mode switching? Every 24 hours or so an owner can choice between several different traits of the array? Extended D-scan ranges to a small degree? 16ish AU or so instead of the 14.3. Wormhole Array's can send out active pings with long delays between pings to check for online players in it's vicinity? Sorta like a D-scan that picks up cloaks but not ships types or anything else, just a number. That would be kinda OP if the array has a big range but a short range maybe not so much? Maybe an active scan could be narrowed down to catch the cloaky as the old Dev post mentioned pinpoint cloaked ships.

Dev post also mentioned D-scan disruption and Starmap tampering. So you can have an active gate camp and have the array block the 1h kill counter making the system look quite. Or shorten the d-scan ranges maybe to hid a camp or even a mission pocket.

Spitballing idea though. Asides from guess work no body knows how they will really work.

balancing with isk is always messy


what if they didn't work like locators?

so you put them down and they will tell you what ship passed by and when but if you were at war they could identify war targets (maybe option even to ping?) either by name or simply noting that it was a war target(depending on how much info they want to be balanced for) this would still work for null/ls pilots and give aggressors something to defend if they want to use it.

this would still leave locators to be used as they are now even with the OPs change added to them

So many people in this thread who don't know how locators work....at all....

And so many trying to argue that not only should we not use Ralph's proposed fix but we should nerf/remove locator agents entirely for no apparent reason x.X


Anyway - I like the suggestion as-is.

If CCP wanted to pander to the idiots as they have been doing lately - maybe tweak it so that the agent takes your money even if they are offline or in a wormhole or something, *then* tells you they can't be located at this time (without a way to tell if that means offline or wormhole) - and the agent is "busy" for a while afterwards just like if they had done a successful locate?

I don't really think any sane/rational argument could be proposed against that - it certainly isn't a valuable source of "free" or "instant" intel assuming you are hunting more than 1 target.


Alternatively as previously mentioned by others supercapitals can dock now, removing a major part of the "issue" with watch lists - so maybe CCP should just start limiting their released API data again and bring back the watch-list. But yeah I know it is wishful thinking and they won't even consider it

I'm not sure abusing other mechanics in ways they were never intended to be used is a viable long-term option either... but at the rate CCP "fixes" things maybe it is.

It does work - but I still think it would be better if there was an actual game mechanic that provided this information in some way, shape, or form - rather than relying on broken game mechanics in other areas to provide the intel.

It is also pretty sad that we've gotten to the point that even when something like this is clearly broken, people would rather it just stay broken than risk having CCP **** it up even worse by attempting to implement a "fix"...

i am fully aware of this, thats explicitly why im pushing for it,
because its waaaaaay more balanced than anything we have in the past or currently use,
because i want a balance to existing mechanics rather than to be naively relying on some quirk in the way systems interplay thats begging to be be patched out without a moments hesitation on ccp's part.

raz has been beating ccp about the head on this topic for six months now.
i have been actively engaging in any and every discussion here on the forums from the first leak back in febuary up untill now.
the csm have been poked and prodded about this so believe me when i say it , this is the last place for this but it is an official avenue so here i am.

1.) Indy/miner(s) Corp(s) used watch list to highlight when baddies came online or offline, whether needed to know or not.
2.) Mercs used watch list to facilitate hunting targets that were elusive by deploying alts to a spot designated by locater agent.
3.) null used them for whatever purpose
4.) I think watch list was important to WH for many various reasons that probably makes some gameplay unsustainable without effort that burn many out.
5.) Everyone used it to keep an eye out for Friends returning to the game, or just to know when allies, corp/alliance mates, etc came online so we could do something together, what ever that might be.

So,
Why not keep the current "buddy list" and the "Locate Agents" working as they are now.
1.) Only just remove the different colors from the buddy list.
2.) Create a new watch list system.

Under the new Watch List system, include all the various colors currently used now.
But,
If you want to know if anybody is online from that list you have to pay a fee.
(Like come on its not like we do not have oodles of ISK pouring from our orifices)

Examples:
1.) 5 million ISK per character you wish to have status for off/on line.
2.) 25 million Isk per corp
3.) 100 million per Alliance

Make these fees inclusive with time limit of wardecs (1week)

So if you want to watch list someone, it costs you 5 million Isk for a week.
Say that someone is in a player corp, add 25 million ISK.
Say the Corp is in an alliance, add 100 million ISK
(* mind you that corp and alliance is added to the watch list also)

Example(per above): so if your just trying to hunt a single guy, it could cost you upwards of 130 million ISK for 7 days of knowing if that person is online or not. And that is not including wardec fees.

Just a thought, besides some people say wardecs in them selves are too cheap anyway, well here is an overhead cost for those that want a watch list ability like it used to work. And before anyone asks, yes i think these ISK amounts are reasonable on top of wardec fees, i would pay them.

Sure its not intended, but when CCP takes something away, people find a way around their mechanics to still get the job done. I dont mind workarounds and little quirky things here and there in my area of gameplay, because I know that CCP is incapable of doing something right when it comes to controversial issues.

Has CCP ever proven to you thst they can take a fun part of the game that might be a little OP, amd balance it without completely killing or crippling the players abilities to operate in a similar fashion? Im not crying because I know that CCP fucks with more than just what I find fun in eve, but when we have broken stuff like: a joke bounty system, crippled abilities to actively hunt a target, and a myiad of other small quirky bugs that make parts of the game irritating its not hard to see why I believe CCP would fumble on a task such as this.

Someone mentioned earlier about the mob mentality is what lit the fire on the watchlist removal, and thats exactly what will happen here. All you want Ralph is a functioning and approved method for seeing if someone is online... And that awesome. The issue is that when and if CCP starts thinking about how to change this and then gets feedback, the mob is going to be too loud for any real voice of reason to break through. I guess its not wrong though because obviously people want a game where you can login, collect minerals, shoot at AI, and participate in whatever other kind of pve you can think of... All without having to deal with the other person aspect of the game. So if thats what the players want, who are we to fault CCP for releasing patches that further bastardize their game and create an atmosphere of coddling and catering to people whose only agenda is playing the game as isolated and safe as possible.

Im done ranting amd im done with caring. Im just going to play the game as long as i can in the niche that i enjoy until CCP decides that my version of the sandbox isnt the social norm within the community. You can bet your ass that im going to ride this slope downward with the severed heads, flayed bodies, and tears of those that present themselves as suitable targets.