Assembly Hall

Many miners are against requiring the Rorq/Orca to be on grid and provide boosts to only those ships withing a certain distance.

Not posting here to argue the pros and cons, simply want to know if there's even one current CSM member who will talk to CCP against this proposal.

Thanks.

As stated, this post wants to know if any CSM member will talk to CCP against the Orca/Rorqual boosting proposal, not rehash the pros and cons.

Miners are far from risk averse - we risk a great deal every day by putting squishy non-combat assets on the field. It's not risk aversion, it's risk management and under the proposal there is no way to adequately manage the risk of fielding a Rorqual. You cannot asses the risk to the Rorq when it will be subject to attack by an opponent that could be of any number and variety, meaning you cannot adequately predict and prepare a defense fleet to meet all comers.

In a POS the Rorqual isn't at risk, but neither is it receiving a benefit itself from boosting. In fact, it's using Heavy Water at a decent rate to run the core costing its operator ISK. The Rorq owner's mining toons may be receiving the benefit, but they're at risk.

How much risk do station traders accept? Industrialists?

But back to the point, is there a CSM member that will speak up to CCP against the proposed mining boosts changes?

Since the new system is still in the upcoming state it would seem that the CSM could discuss the impact it will have on miners with CCP. Even if it was already in place, they could voice the issues miners are raising.

There are safe bets which prob don't make that much isk and then theirs long term market speculation which could go ether way they could make loads or loose everything... just like RL traders.
Indi people risk things all the time.. like loosing freighters full of stuff... its all part of the risk of doing it and some times they make bank and some times they loose all there stock.

You are asking for a ??? 35%? mining boost to EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN YOUR FLEET with zero risk.
pvp Fleets will also have to risk there command ships on grid now with the changes (some fitted and mindlinked command ships cost just as much as a rorqual does)... the fleet could deside its not worth the risk and not run links or they could take the chance and use them.

1: A fleet does not always defend against alpha and just haveing your links vaporised
2: Why can the Mining fleet not defend, does not sound like a fleet to me
3: WHY does the risk reward have to be good/better than something like a PVP fleet where there is no real incentive other than kill mails,
Your reward is you GET STUFF. out of thin air, and you can calculate almost to the 0.01isk how much reward you are getting for doing something for 10mins 1h 10h 10 days. What other activity can you calculate the rewards so accurately? you can also calculate a worst case scenario where you send the whole fleet out to mine, you get nothing and all get wiped out, you can also calculate to the nearest 3mins exactly how long you have to mine to 100% pay for everything in the fleet. I don't think there is anything you can do in this game to make isk that you can calculate the risk-reward so accurately.

Using a rorqual to give bonuses has the same risk as using a dread, you know how much the ship is worth. and just the same as a dread all you are gaining by using one is time.... and time is the one thing you can calculate when mining and can also calculate how long you need to mine with the rorqual boosts to pay for the risk of losing it. you can then calculate the likely hood of some fleet coming that you cannot deal with and then work out if its worth it.

4: only a few ships can use links not all of them. no one is forcing you to use a rorqual to run links... you can also just stick some mining links on a ferox.. just like a pvp fleet could put their links on a Ferox to lower the cost risk of losing them vs a vulture or something. you can have lower cost links which boost less or you can risk more and get more... all very simple and nothing that a pvp fleet cannot or does not do.
Also MOST pvp people don't have links trained so even if you were someone like PL you cannot just run a command ship fleet and say hay every single one of our ships has links now because it just does not work that way. you will always have to have dedicated PEOPLE flying Dedicated SHIPS that cannot really do much other than boost. At least the rorqual has more roles than just give boosts while its there... it can support other ships with reps it can MINE STUFF OUT OF THIN AIR (just like the rest of the miners).... IT MAKES ISK ON ITS OWN, which also reduces the risk reward for using it. you are in the mind set still that a rorqual does nothing but run links but they do so so so much more, even now they CAN do more stuff than just run links and when the command changes come in they will be able to do LOADS LOADS LOADS MORE than just sit there running links.

PVP fleet: hay we could use these dreads to kill XXX but if we get dropped they will prob die... or we can take some Battleships it will take longer but there is less risk of been dropped and if we do get dropped we might be able to save some of the ships.
We could use X and Get Z compleated in 10mins or we can use Y and it will take 15mins

Mining Fleet: hay we could use a rorqual to boost but if we get dropped it will prob die... or we can just run links on XXX (or no links) we will have to mine a bit longer but there is less risk of been dropped and if we do get dropped we might be able to save some of the ships.
We could use a rorqual for links and we will make XXX in 30mins or we could use this ferox for links but we will have to mine for 6.216546% longer to make the same isk.

Erm PL Run PvP fleets for making money all the time. #Merclife
Just like ratting and mission running sometimes it is not worth the extra risk of using more expensive ships/fittings to just earn 1-10% more isk per tick which is why people use things like VNI's for doing it and don't use Officer fit T2 BS's
A 20bill isk Mission running ship cannot really defend against been ganked either but some people still do it as they think its worth the 2% more isk per tic over something that is less likely to get ganked.

It seems you don't feel its worth the risk.... SO DON'T USE ONE.... use something else that's in your price range to run the links and because of the lower risk you get less isk... its really really simple maths.

Saying your special snowflakes and mining is nothing like the rest of the game in any way so you need your own special rules to make it fair on you is just dumb.
You want to field Capital ships. You want to field Capital ships that give ?35-50%? boosts to other ships that make isk and can also mine its self and make isk.
You want to field capital ship that make isk and boost others isk making with no support and no risk.
You want to field a capital ship that can make isk boost others isk remote Rep others that are making isk and rep people who are trying to support it and that can also put a special shield around others making isk and has the tank of a Triage which even some alliances in this game would not be able to brake and have no risk to using it?

Would you also like CCP to reduce the skill cap and build costs of it as well? because I think this ability should be available to even new people to the game.

Maybe you should lead with we are hoping it gets a tweek to the clone vat ore compression and stuff when the rorqual is been looked at as at the moment these bonuses are not really used in modern eve. Rather than starting with we don't want them on grid for boosts.... Thats all you asked for in your OP.

And like i said you don't have to use a rorqual for boosts there are 17 other ships that you can use to give boosts, they are a lower boost amount but cost less than 1/10 the price of a rorqual. just like no one forced that guy that died today in a 15-20bill isk officer fitted mission running ship for his 3% more dps and income.

I mean whats wrong with the panic shield? does it need to last longer? does it need more range? does it need to use less fuel to activate? maybe you could diversify members in your corp/alliance so there are people that like to pvp also so you have some back up... or maybe make some other frends outside of your corp/alliance just like everyone elce does.... even people that fight you might be willing to help if a 3rd party come.... just like Pandemic Horde today Helped NC. (who every day kill horde members) with a thing. or the time any one helped any one else in this MMO.

I mean if all it comes down to is you don't like to have to siege to boost why not just use an orca? thats cheaper, Provides some level of command boosts, is moveable, not sieged
I would love if PL could use titans as command ships all the time to get there dank boosts, But we cannot as its not worth the risk for the extra... so do you know what we do... we don't take the risk and go with a lower level command ship and miss out on the benefits. I would also love if i could build a 30bill isk kronos and then go use it with a very low risk, but thats not possible...
People used to be able to out run missiles in hacs and now they cannot... miners used to be able to have 100% safe links and not you cannot. you also used to be able to AOE DD with a titan without the titan even been in the same system. and now you can not... things change, Every one is in the same boat. all miners have the same problem... some will risk it and maybe they get mad bank or maybe they all die, some people will not risk it and will have to settle for a lower mining amount

Nor do i, and yes that element seems a little off...
But the OP was only asking for a CSM to plead the case of 1: why does it have to be in a belt to boost and 2: only in a set KM range of the rorqual when its in the belt.

It is a sad commentary on the role of the CSM and the way players vote when a large block of players can at best hope for someone on the CSM to play "Devil's Advocate" on their behalf.

Although I sincerely thank you for being willing to represent players who would otherwise have no voice on the CSM, I think the fact that the CSM has no permanent voice of industrialists onboard is structurally a weakness.

Perhaps you might suggest to CCP that players should have category choices to vote for CSM members, High Sec, PVE, PVP, Low Sec, Null Sec, RP, Industrialist, Anoikis, FW, and so on. Getting an actual cross section of what players do in EVE would/could serve the players, the CSM, and CCP much better.

Judge, your opinion is valued since you are the only member of the CSM to respond to this request for representation in this thread.

Does the concept of stakeholder groups having seats at the CSM table scare you that much?

Exactly what are you afraid of?

Is it the concept of people being represented by people who share their interests?

Somehow I suspect there might be some difference in point of view from a full time industrial player and a PVP Null Sec Alliance FC that perhaps, possibly does some mining from time to time.

Perish forbid the thought that an industrialist might actually add something to the mix of fresh ideas, right?