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Why do people assume how we play the game reflects us in real life?

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Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#121 - 2016-09-08 16:58:21 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:


So wait... Steven King really is a killer alien clown?


Authoring a character from a book is not a direct analog to what we are discussing here. However, what I said still applies. Steven King, as an author, has to have created all that crap in his head and gone down all those dark paths in his mind. So yes, he has to have aspects of that Killer Clown in him, it doesn't mean he doesn't have the self control and rationality not to be that Killer Clown.

My point is, you need to examine where your motivations come from, and own them. Most people have the ability to be sociopaths or strongly anti-social. The entire Social Media world caters to various levels of Narcissism. Nobody is saying that if you like taking down other players in EVE or other MMO's you are going to go on a serial killing spree. However, it is important to recognize the danger of that behavior on-line in yourself and make sure that it DOESN'T manifest in a negative way in Reality.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2016-09-08 17:46:04 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:


So wait... Steven King really is a killer alien clown?


Authoring a character from a book is not a direct analog to what we are discussing here. However, what I said still applies. Steven King, as an author, has to have created all that crap in his head and gone down all those dark paths in his mind. So yes, he has to have aspects of that Killer Clown in him, it doesn't mean he doesn't have the self control and rationality not to be that Killer Clown.

My point is, you need to examine where your motivations come from, and own them. Most people have the ability to be sociopaths or strongly anti-social. The entire Social Media world caters to various levels of Narcissism. Nobody is saying that if you like taking down other players in EVE or other MMO's you are going to go on a serial killing spree. However, it is important to recognize the danger of that behavior on-line in yourself and make sure that it DOESN'T manifest in a negative way in Reality.


So you're saying it is possible to be an ******* in a game and not in real life? Because of reasons.

Gee, that sounds sort of like what we've been saying all along.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Black Pedro
Mine.
#123 - 2016-09-08 17:56:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
My point is, you need to examine where your motivations come from, and own them. Most people have the ability to be sociopaths or strongly anti-social. The entire Social Media world caters to various levels of Narcissism. Nobody is saying that if you like taking down other players in EVE or other MMO's you are going to go on a serial killing spree. However, it is important to recognize the danger of that behavior on-line in yourself and make sure that it DOESN'T manifest in a negative way in Reality.
Lol. This paragraph reminds me of that whole early-eighties anti- Dungeons & Dragons craze that gave humanity Tom Hank's first, yet so terrible movie, Mazes & Monsters. Are you seriously claiming that I need to "recognize the danger" of playing a pirate in a space video game? Are you really suggesting with a straight face that I am in danger of losing myself in the role and it will start negatively impacting on my real life? If so, perhaps you should also suggest to CCP that they should produce some similar made-for-TV (or perhaps now made-for-YouTube) movie about the dangers of role-playing to raise awareness of this very real problem facing all of us Eve Online players.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Paranoid Loyd
#124 - 2016-09-08 18:08:02 UTC
Confirming I started highjacking trucks IRL because it's a slippery slope to roleplay as a spacepriate.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2016-09-08 18:12:51 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Confirming I started highjacking trucks IRL because it's a slippery slope to roleplay as a spacepriate.


You too?!?!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#126 - 2016-09-08 18:15:25 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Confirming I started highjacking trucks IRL because it's a slippery slope to roleplay as a spacepriate.


You too?!?!
Are you using 20 year old Honda Civic coupes to do it?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2016-09-08 18:17:54 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Confirming I started highjacking trucks IRL because it's a slippery slope to roleplay as a spacepriate.


You too?!?!
Are you using 20 year old Honda Civic coupes to do it?


With flame throwers...how else would you do it?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#128 - 2016-09-08 18:23:06 UTC
Just popping in to say my character in Eve is an exact replication of my character in real life and my behavior in Eve is the exact reverse of my behavior in RL. Make of that what you will.

Oh, and Erotica 1 didn't get banned for his in game behavior. CCP was fine with it as it was by definition out of game until a certain member of the CSM got sand in his vagina and started a publicity campaign to defame Erotica 1 AND CCP over the bonus rooms. The bonus room was nothing I could do and I even couldn't stand to listen to it the few times I heard recordings of it but every "victim" was voluntarily there and participating in the hope of making a fortune in ISK. Greed made them stupid.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#129 - 2016-09-08 18:41:45 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
No one, but a small child, would throw a temper tantrum or spew such vile such as seen when some miners are relieved of a ship over losing in a game. If you were playing Monopoly, and you are bankrupted by your opponent by landing on Boardwalk, it is not 'you' that has been bankrupted but rather that little thimble or shoe or whatever. Most adults will just give a 'good game' and go grab another beer and watch the rest of the game.
Condescension aside, the difference between those examples is that Monopoly is played under a single common ruleset with everyone's objective being the same. The equivalent with EVE would be two people intentionally engaging in a fight with one losing. Imagine if you were trying to play a game of poker and someone you are playing against decided to change it into a game of 52 card pickup just because they know it will disrupt you. That's a closer equivalent.

Black Pedro wrote:
However in Eve, many players become invested so much in their character that it is them, and thus they take another player shooting their barge personally as if the attacker had visited their house and started smashing their car with a sledgehammer.
It's more because they know that someone purposely stepped back their progress for no real benefit to themselves. Being set back in a game and have to regain progress makes it slightly less enjoyable, but knowing that the only reason you were set back is because the other person know you won;t enjoy being set back and they make no progress themselves, that's the part that makes it a problem for many people. Like when you play a FPS and a teammate keeps tking you at the beginning and they themselves get punished by being killed. Neither of you can play, but you're more frustrated by it as he's doing it intentionally.

Black Pedro wrote:
Treat the person on the other side of the screen/keyboard who exploded you as you would a friend sitting across the table from you who just beat you in Chess or whatever.
If I was playing someone at chess and they beat me then proceeded to spend the next 2 hours following me around to wind me up and trying to "harvest my tears" to post on their blog, giving me notes explaining the basics of chess because obviously my loss means complete ineptitude, then I'd probably fall out with them pretty quick.


Lol 'cause those mean ol' gankers just aren't playing fair, are they Lucas? lololololol



I'd like to thank the OP for these quality Lucas Kell tears.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#130 - 2016-09-08 19:20:08 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

I tell you what - biomass *your* account first to show me you are serious, and I'll biomass 2 of mine.

Then we can discuss a third party to hold collateral until I'm sure you've actually *injected* the skillbook into your *new* character - because frankly I don't trust you. I think you are trying to scam me.


edit:
PS: That wasn't enough time for you to read my first post, let alone the entire thread... You aren't fooling anybody.

I'm not the one trying to fool anybody. I'm not the one making grandiose claims of space-wealth I "almost" did this-or-that with. I'm not the one making declarations of quitting this game because I think it's bad but at the same time saying I think it will get "better". (I wasn't referring to anything you might have written in this thread, but rather in the past - hence "iirc") If one really had hundreds of billions of isk, why would alpha playing being free for them even be an issue worth mentioning for them?

You don't trust me? :( I am hurt

No, I don't thoroughly read your numerous and often lengthy posts, sorry. Some folks you learn just like to go on and on so you just skim their novellas, you know?

EvE security zones in pictures

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Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#131 - 2016-09-08 19:33:43 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
... Tom Hank's first, yet so terrible movie, Mazes & Monsters....

Smile Interesting, thanks! Never knew about that. Weird start, glad he did better things.



EvE security zones in pictures

EvE quick reference pdf

EvE links
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#132 - 2016-09-08 19:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:



You last statement tells you all you need to understand, grief pixels, to you it is just a representative of nothing, but I could also ask then why not blow up NPC's?


Myriad reasons:
-Shooting NPCs has boring, predictable outcomes. Number of times an NPC has lit a surprise-cyno under my ass, to date: 0

-Shooting NPCs yields boring, predictable rewards (in most cases). Nothing quite like popping some blingy fit and taking home more in loot than your entire fit is worth.

-Shooting NPCs generates supply, while shooting PCs generates demand. It literally makes the universe go round. I would think you would understand this, as a (supposed) industrial player.



If you are having a 'cyno' lit up your not in high sec, this means you are free to shoot at whatever because anybody in those security areas have already made it perfectly clear how they are gaming.

Again I ask you, griefing pixels in high sec is not the same as low and null/WH, people there should never be bothered by being attacked, it is expected, you I am assuming are suggesting in your post that you we're part of 'code' and other things that involves high sec attacks, there is a reason why you get Concorded when you attack in high, yes the game mechanics give you the ability to do attacks in high sec but getting Concorded and losing sec status and including people hating on you when the game mechanics also protects against attacks....what is not computing in your brain, people have some expectations against attacks, when someone breaks that it is going to have consequences and that includes people saying ugly things to you.

I as an Indy player have lost ships to people and NPC's alike, both generate demand, people lose ships in missions and other activity, people shooting others isn't a 'pure' form of generating demand, don't kid yourself.

If this doesn't make you understand then that's that, nothing can be done, do as you do and don't ask for a reason why people think your psycho, people call me carebear, doesn't hurt my feelings.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2016-09-08 19:43:39 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Confirming I started highjacking trucks IRL because it's a slippery slope to roleplay as a spacepriate.

You people are the reason we can't have nice things.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Paranoid Loyd
#134 - 2016-09-08 19:48:33 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Confirming I started highjacking trucks IRL because it's a slippery slope to roleplay as a spacepriate.

You people are the reason we can't have nice things.

Damn straight, I took them all away! You didn't deserve them anyway. Twisted

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#135 - 2016-09-08 20:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Piugattuk wrote:


If you are having a 'cyno' lit up your not in high sec, this means you are free to shoot at whatever because anybody in those security areas have already made it perfectly clear how they are gaming.


It would be hard to fully articulate how badly you've missed the point, here. It was an example of the unpredictability of PvP, relative to PvE, where the primary cause of ship-loss is Netflix related. There is no shortage of non-cyno related surprises, as well. Neutral logi, surprise falcon uncloaking, friends sitting on the gate in the next system, etc.

Quote:
Again I ask you, griefing pixels in high sec is not the same as low and null/WH,


Protip: Griefing is against the EULA. Killing people in high sec is, as we all know, very much allowed. Ergo, killing people in highsec is not "griefing". If your argument is reliant on conflating valid gameplay with rulebreaking behavior, you may want to consider the possibility that your position isn't as strong as you imagine.

Quote:

people there should never be bothered by being attacked, it is expected, you I am assuming are suggesting in your post that you we're part of 'code' and other things that involves high sec attacks, there is a reason why you get Concorded when you attack in high, yes the game mechanics give you the ability to do attacks in high sec but getting Concorded and losing sec status and including people hating on you when the game mechanics also protects against attacks....what is not computing in your brain, people have some expectations against attacks, when someone breaks that it is going to have consequences and that includes people saying ugly things to you.


No, they don't have any expectations against attacks. At least, they shouldn't, as the rules of the game provide for no such expectation, as you've just noted. They merely provide a consequence. So what you're effectively suggesting is that the real problem is that a subset of players are ignorant of the rules of the game. That's very possible.

It's curious, however, that you seem to feel this ignorance of the rules of the game excuses, or even justifies, their animosity/vitriol/penchant for levying unqualified medical diagnoses. Lol

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#136 - 2016-09-08 20:11:00 UTC
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

I tell you what - biomass *your* account first to show me you are serious, and I'll biomass 2 of mine.

Then we can discuss a third party to hold collateral until I'm sure you've actually *injected* the skillbook into your *new* character - because frankly I don't trust you. I think you are trying to scam me.


edit:
PS: That wasn't enough time for you to read my first post, let alone the entire thread... You aren't fooling anybody.

I'm not the one trying to fool anybody. I'm not the one making grandiose claims of space-wealth I "almost" did this-or-that with. I'm not the one making declarations of quitting this game because I think it's bad but at the same time saying I think it will get "better". (I wasn't referring to anything you might have written in this thread, but rather in the past - hence "iirc") If one really had hundreds of billions of isk, why would alpha playing being free for them even be an issue worth mentioning for them?

You don't trust me? :( I am hurt

No, I don't thoroughly read your numerous and often lengthy posts, sorry. Some folks you learn just like to go on and on so you just skim their novellas, you know?

I'm not trying to fool anybody either. I didn't say 90% of what you just claimed I said - and I'm not sure why you are lying about it...

I linked you my post - if you can't read it that isn't my problem.

But of course I don't trust you - you are spreading rumours and lies about me for no apparent reason, despite the fact that I've been quite open and honest from the beginning of my forum career...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#137 - 2016-09-08 20:26:13 UTC
So Vortexo: Since *you* are the only one who has said it so far - why do *you* keep insisting that EVE is horrible? Please explain yourself immediately.

Or just biomass.

I really don't give a ****.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Memphis Baas
#138 - 2016-09-08 21:15:52 UTC
The answer is actually simple:

Person takes an in-game action. Does that action result in some gain within the game, as defined by the game rules?

1. If the answer is "yes", then Person is just playing the game. Murdering the pawns to get at the king. Shooting another ship to get at its loot. Suicide ganking. Market manipulation.

2. If the answer is "no", or "I have no clue what possible advantage there could be", then the easiest assumption to make is it's Person's personality that drove them to do whatever "pointless" action they're doing. That they're enjoying it, maliciously.

So that's why people draw that conclusion.

You can see it, too: gank the miner, watch him get pissed off and all sweary, and then explain, using numbers, exactly how much profit that was for you, per hour, per day, per month. Switch the whole thing from category 2 to category 1. They'll calm down.

Calm down miner should be a link to profit maths.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#139 - 2016-09-08 21:20:12 UTC
I think it's as simple as people being unable to separate reality from fantasy.

If you are unable to make the distinction, how you play in game might be how you are in life, and you'll think the same of others.

If you are able to make the distinction, there's no telling how you are in real life or for that matter how any other player is.

I for one have never ganked a tractor trailer. ...though to be fair, the thought has occurred to me.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#140 - 2016-09-08 21:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Piugattuk wrote:



If you are having a 'cyno' lit up your not in high sec, this means you are free to shoot at whatever because anybody in those security areas have already made it perfectly clear how they are gaming.


There are NPCs outside of HS you know. That is what most people ratting in NS shoot, NPCs.

And as SurrenderMonkey pointed out the point is that NPCs are boring and predictable and you can always beat them so long as you fit your ship correctly.

Quote:
Again I ask you, griefing pixels in high sec is not the same as low and null/WH, people there should never be bothered by being attacked, it is expected, you I am assuming are suggesting in your post that you we're part of 'code' and other things that involves high sec attacks, there is a reason why you get Concorded when you attack in high, yes the game mechanics give you the ability to do attacks in high sec but getting Concorded and losing sec status and including people hating on you when the game mechanics also protects against attacks....what is not computing in your brain, people have some expectations against attacks, when someone breaks that it is going to have consequences and that includes people saying ugly things to you.


Note CONCORD does not prevent others from attacking you. The game was designed that way on purpose. CCP has stated that attacking a person in HS is legal, expected and even normal game play if you are willing to accept the consequences--i.e. get your ship blown up by CONCORD if the attack was "illegal"--i.e. there was no war dec, no suspect flag, etc. You are punished after the fact. So, your entire premise here is at odds not only with the way the game is, but with the way CCP intended the game to be. It is not everyone else that needs to change, it is you.

And you can be upset, you can even be angry, but when you start calling people a sociopath for playing a game as it was intended to be played you are a completely blinkered fool....and you should be ganked again just for good measure.

Quote:
I as an Indy player have lost ships to people and NPC's alike, both generate demand, people lose ships in missions and other activity, people shooting others isn't a 'pure' form of generating demand, don't kid yourself.

If this doesn't make you understand then that's that, nothing can be done, do as you do and don't ask for a reason why people think your psycho, people call me carebear, doesn't hurt my feelings.


Oh we all understand alright, you have an incorrect understanding of the game. Completely incorrect. This is a sandbox game and you have no safe space.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online