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Why do people assume how we play the game reflects us in real life?

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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#261 - 2016-09-10 09:33:49 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
No you are not an alt of mine, silly thing to say,

No sillier than claiming I'm the alt of someone else that I'm not.

So if I'm going to be fake anyone's alt, I choose to identify as you.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#262 - 2016-09-10 09:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Bumping has occured since the game started. It's a mechanic that's been here since the very beginning and the changes proposed to bumping won't remove it from the game.
CCP still changed it though, didn't they? So obviously from their point of view they saw it as an unbalanced mechanic

Sure, but that wasn't the question.

The question if you go back and read it, is whether it is within the rules, with the implication that it isn't really.

At this stage, it is.

It can change all CCP want and they could totally rule it an exploit today if they want and that would be perfectly fine.

Until then though, those of us that haul through highsec need to take responsibility for our own safety, accounting for the possibility that someone else could attempt to bump us against our will.

Lucas Kell wrote:
Those fictional assets still take real life time to acquire. If I was several hours into a game that had no autosave and you came in and unplugged my computer, would you expect to me to simply say "good fight"? While it's not really comparable to real life crime, yo're taking one heck of a leap to go from that to suggesting people have no reason to be saddened by their loss of in-game assets. In fact if they mean absolutely zero to you, contract them over to me and you can just go get more from scratch, yeah?

Where did I claim what you are saying here?

Yes those fictional assets took real life recreation time to acquire. Yes, it is natural that people will have a varying range of reactions, including for some people anger.

I don't like losing my in game assets either. That's natural and totally understandable for others.

But that doesn't equate to RL battery and robbery, which you seem to agree with. The rest, I don't know where you got that from, as I wrote none of it.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#263 - 2016-09-10 10:00:16 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Sure, but that wasn't the question.

The question if you go back and read it, is whether it is within the rules, with the implication that it isn't really.
Sure, but then if you go back further to her original point, it wasn't that it was against the rules it was an opinion that some behaviours that are within the rules currently are bad for them game.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Until then though, those of us that haul through highsec need to take responsibility for our own safety, accounting for the possibility that someone else could attempt to bump us against our will.
and they do, but they don;t have to do it with a smile of their face. It's OK for them to not be pleased when something they've worked for is lost just like it's OK for gankers to not be pleased when they fail (not that that happens much because gank counters are very poor and require massive manpower).

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Where did I claim what you are saying here?

Yes those fictional assets took real life recreation time to acquire. Yes, it is natural that people will have a varying range of reactions, including for some people anger.

I don't like losing my in game assets either. That's natural and totally understandable for others.

But that doesn't equate to RL battery and robbery, which you seem to agree with. The rest, I don't know where you got that from, as I wrote none of it.
I'm sorry, I was under the impression you actually read the rest of the posts you were responding to so you understood the context rather than taking one comment out of context and treating that like the subject matter. The subject was whether or not people were justified in getting annoyed when they lose their in-game assets, which it seems you agree here that they are. I don't agree with the comparison between IRL robbery and loss of in-game assets, but then I read the rest of the post and understood the point the bad analogy was trying to make and agreed with that.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#264 - 2016-09-10 10:05:31 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
No. "Griefing" like that has always been part of the game. To argue that is why subs are suddenly falling doesn't explain why they were rising.
The ability for players to impose spaceship violence has always been in the game, sure, but the desire to actively seek "tear extraction" has certainly grown by leaps and bounds. I don't think people are put of simply by ships exploding so much as autistic bile that more frequently comes along with it.

Rin Vocaloid2 wrote:
You're making it seem as if griefing (ie: suicide ganking, scamming, corporate theft, etc.) is what caused Eve Online to suffer. If that was the case, Eve Online should have been dead back in 2003. But nope, here we are 13 years later standing.
I'm not. You're misunderstand what behaviours I consider to be griefing.

Rin Vocaloid2 wrote:
The reason why Eve Online has been slow on growth or just overall stagnated for the past few years could be anything else besides griefing. Keep in mind that new players seem to join every time there is news of a major fleet battle that impacted the economy and power blocs. Ever notice a sudden uptick in new players almost immediately after the battle of B-R5RB or the battle of Asakai or maybe even the downfall of The Imperium? Especially after these battles were reported in major news outlets like Forbes.com.
Sure, and that shows that large scale in-game activity promotes new players, but outside of those times it really doesn't hold people interest. And sure, I don't suggest that all of that or even a major part of that is down to griefers, a lot of it is down to bad development, but many people who know about EVE are aware of how EVE players behave.

Rin Vocaloid2 wrote:
Unfortunately even then, as one of the CCP Devs once mentioned during Fanfest 2016, the vast majority of new players trying out Eve Online don't stick around for more than a few hours before quiting and moving on the next game.
Why would they? The gameplay is archaic because every time they try to boost something that doesn't directly involve blowing up other players the PvPers start raging out about how ruined the game will be, and by the time you've had your first interaction with another player or seen the forum, you've probably had enough neckbeard for a good long time. Let's be real, most of us are here because we've been playing so long that quitting would seem like a waste.


Yes let's pretend that PvErs are a special breed that never complain about any changes.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#265 - 2016-09-10 10:06:15 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Sure, but that wasn't the question.

The question if you go back and read it, is whether it is within the rules, with the implication that it isn't really.
Sure, but then if you go back further to her original point, it wasn't that it was against the rules it was an opinion that some behaviours that are within the rules currently are bad for them game.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Until then though, those of us that haul through highsec need to take responsibility for our own safety, accounting for the possibility that someone else could attempt to bump us against our will.
and they do, but they don;t have to do it with a smile of their face. It's OK for them to not be pleased when something they've worked for is lost just like it's OK for gankers to not be pleased when they fail (not that that happens much because gank counters are very poor and require massive manpower).

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Where did I claim what you are saying here?

Yes those fictional assets took real life recreation time to acquire. Yes, it is natural that people will have a varying range of reactions, including for some people anger.

I don't like losing my in game assets either. That's natural and totally understandable for others.

But that doesn't equate to RL battery and robbery, which you seem to agree with. The rest, I don't know where you got that from, as I wrote none of it.
I'm sorry, I was under the impression you actually read the rest of the posts you were responding to so you understood the context rather than taking one comment out of context and treating that like the subject matter. The subject was whether or not people were justified in getting annoyed when they lose their in-game assets, which it seems you agree here that they are. I don't agree with the comparison between IRL robbery and loss of in-game assets, but then I read the rest of the post and understood the point the bad analogy was trying to make and agreed with that.



Yeah it was probably a bad analogy, but at least someone understood the point I was trying to make.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#266 - 2016-09-10 10:08:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Yes let's pretend that PvErs are a special breed that never complain about any changes.
Hmmm nope, don't see where I wrote that in there.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#267 - 2016-09-10 10:08:14 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
No you are not an alt of mine, silly thing to say,

No sillier than claiming I'm the alt of someone else that I'm not.

So if I'm going to be fake anyone's alt, I choose to identify as you.


You are the alt of Ima Wreckyou.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#268 - 2016-09-10 10:09:42 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
No you are not an alt of mine, silly thing to say,

No sillier than claiming I'm the alt of someone else that I'm not.

So if I'm going to be fake anyone's alt, I choose to identify as you.


You are the alt of Ima Wreckyou.

No, I'm your alt.

We can keep this childishness up forever and continue to be off topic, totally pissing off the rest of the forum.

But then, I'm Dracvlad and that's what I do.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#269 - 2016-09-10 10:11:15 UTC
Actually it will probably only go on until an ISD removes your posts for impersonation, but never mind.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#270 - 2016-09-10 10:11:44 UTC
Ginger Naari wrote:
Yeah it was probably a bad analogy, but at least someone understood the point I was trying to make.

I only addressed the point you actually wrote.

I disagree with your broader point, but that's neither here nor there, since we are all entitled to our own opinions. However, you implied bumping is not in the rules. No one else did that.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#271 - 2016-09-10 10:15:00 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Actually it will probably only go on until an ISD removes your posts for impersonation, but never mind.

Hopefully they delete the whole lot. It's all pretty dumb and petty, but not impersonation.

If anyone truly believes I'm Dracvlad's alt, then I will happily double their ISK.

I'm no more Dracvlad's alt than I am Ima's alt, however if I'm going to be accused wrongly, then I'll wrongly identify as Dravlad's alt. That's as silly as any other choice.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#272 - 2016-09-10 10:15:59 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
No you are not an alt of mine, silly thing to say,

No sillier than claiming I'm the alt of someone else that I'm not.

So if I'm going to be fake anyone's alt, I choose to identify as you.


You are the alt of Ima Wreckyou.

No, I'm your alt.

We can keep this childishness up forever and continue to be off topic, totally pissing off the rest of the forum.

But then, I'm Dracvlad and that's what I do.


Well I am going to stop now, but you are obviously sensitive about that, which is very amusing.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2016-09-10 10:18:43 UTC
I think if it's legal in the game whatever happens is fair play and no reflection on you as a person.

In China it's common practice to spit on the floor, yet if you did that in Japan people would look at you in disgust and if you did it enough you would likely get arrested.

We are slaves to the social and judicial barriers set for us by a higher power. A person is not considered bad in China for spitting but in Japan he is. A conscientious person therefore would respect the boundaries of the environment they reside and act accordingly.


Stop over analysing it, in the end it's just about conformity and the people complain that x happened to them have just not conformed to the environment yet

Art of Explosions
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#274 - 2016-09-10 10:19:11 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Well I am going to stop now, but you are obviously sensitive about that, which is very amusing.

Everyone has their limits, hence my link to Kergit's post earlier.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#275 - 2016-09-10 10:22:28 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Well I am going to stop now, but you are obviously sensitive about that, which is very amusing.

Everyone has their limits, hence my link to Kergit's post earlier.


Did not even read it.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#276 - 2016-09-10 10:27:32 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Did not even read it.

Doesn't make it less true.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#277 - 2016-09-10 11:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I think if it's legal in the game whatever happens is fair play and no reflection on you as a person.

In China it's common practice to spit on the floor, yet if you did that in Japan people would look at you in disgust and if you did it enough you would likely get arrested.

We are slaves to the social and judicial barriers set for us by a higher power. A person is not considered bad in China for spitting but in Japan he is. A conscientious person therefore would respect the boundaries of the environment they reside and act accordingly.


Stop over analysing it, in the end it's just about conformity and the people complain that x happened to them have just not conformed to the environment yet

You're attempting to explain away social progress with its its legal now its all good. That's nonsense. It was once legal to own slaves.

In EvE terms, it was once legal to invite a person to fleet to "help them" and then invite an alt you were at war with to gank them. That was defended as vigorously by knobs here on the forum as ganking is now. That was nerfed out of existence.

I once complained on these forums that capital projection was too powerful and we needed to have a cooldown after jumping - I was personally attacked and ridiculed for something like 80 pages or more. "It'll never happen you fwit" and so on was shouted at me. 2 years later.

If you disagree with something in game you disagree with it and you should express that disagreement. If people are so fragile and pathetic they can't handle a dissenting opinion then that's their weakness. If people are afraid to voice their own opinion for fear of the knobs here on the forum who try to shout every idea down then that's their weakness.

Here's a good thread in which I was arguing for a new sov system in which players would need to be alert and online to prevent their sov from being taken aka these days Fozziesov - Link

Take a look at all the hate and vitriol over the suggestions for something other than Dominion, many of the faces who turned out to be wrong are still here on this forum, spewing the same bullcrap, and most likely will be proved wrong again in the future.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#278 - 2016-09-10 11:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Ginger Naari wrote:
Within the rules, really?

Lets take bumping..You say it's within the rules of the game, I'll bet anything that this wasn't even thought of as a part of the game even a few years back.

CCP agree with it sooo much that they've already announced changes to counter it, changes that haven't been implemented yet probably due to players instantly publishing a workaround to just carry on regardless.
And you'd be wrong, bumping has been around for at least a decade.

CCP left it alone for at least a decade, it's only recently that they've said they're changing it, which appears to coincide with the efforts to make Eve a more "mainstream" game.

Quote:
Bonus room degradation tactics, you seriously think that was an intended part of the game design?
You didn't mention the bonus room antics in the post I addressed, that's a contentious subject and I'm staying well away from it.

Quote:
I'll say it again as you obviously didn't get it the first time around...

Space pixels and real life are very much intertwined, those pixels have been built/bought by a REAL person, it's a REAL person behind them, it's a REAL person you just pissed off by these bully boy tactics. Their items and such don't respawn as in every other game, when they are gone, they are gone and have to be built or bought all over again. In some cases they have literally lost everything they own in game.
They're still pixels and Eve is a game where loss is meaningful; don't like it, don't play it Roll

Quote:
It's like walking home from the pub and getting mugged by half a dozen youths, you lose your phone, wallet, keys, pride etc. Are you going to go away and shout good fight, what did I do wrong? Why players think that the victim should act this way is way beyond me. In my case I know exactly what the gf would stand for.

Or, as people are saying, should I never go to the pub alone, I should always be with a mate?
As someone who has actually been mugged on the way home from a pub, sustaining a couple of broken bones in the process, I can safely say that losing pixels in a game in no way compares to it. Your comparison belittles the victims of real world crime and is downright offensive.

Quote:
It's like the guy bragging about hunting and killing 100 mtu's simply for tears and the reaction, there's something seriously wrong in his head, and that's no different from players actively hunting defenceless barges and freighters.

So yes, they are perfectly entitled to rage after getting bullied off the field. If it's as bad as you say, pass it to CCP, or stop pissing people off, just don't come on here whining about getting abuse from them. You caused it.
Yet it's still pixels.

Pull your head out of your rectum and get some perspective

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#279 - 2016-09-10 11:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Here's a good thread in which I was arguing for a new sov system in which players would need to be alert and online to prevent their sov from being taken aka these days Fozziesov - Link

Take a look at all the hate and vitriol over the suggestions for something other than Dominion, many of the faces who turned out to be wrong are still here on this forum, spewing the same bullcrap, and most likely will be proved wrong again in the future.

Actually, what I see from your first post is agreement:

https://puu.sh/r6gtu/4ee70ad286.png

Not only there, but also further on.

The vitriol seemed more to do with you than with your ideas. But that is a separate issue with a lot of history.

The first negativity came only after you started claiming things were BS, that other players are lazy and that stupid alliances wouldn't survive:

https://puu.sh/r6gCH/89ccfbe940.png

Responses to that sort of language are not going to be glowing. Then downhill from there.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#280 - 2016-09-10 11:17:48 UTC
Giaus Felix wrote:
They're still pixels and Eve is a game where loss is meaningful; don't like it, don't play it Roll

They might be pixels but so are the pixels on a World Cup Scoreboard. Why don't you go to a world cup game maybe in Brazil, and interfere with a goal, then explain to the crowd its only pixels on that scoreboard....

Or go down the pub and mess up someones pool game and explain to them its just balls on the table and not that important.

If you're still alive come back here and report what you experienced. People play games as a form of entertainment and as a form of hobbying. Many take their games and hobbies very seriously. The former suggestion above will likely get you killed, literally and the latter maybe just bashed.

While in your own mind you might try to excuse your poor behaviour by dismissing the value of X because you feel X is unimportant, your perception is your own and you do not speak for the rest of humanity in regards to the value of X be it EvE, soccer, pool or otherwise.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)