EVE General Discussion

Or get a friend to scout for you.

Or pay me and a friend and we'll come gank the bumping mach. I'd do it for cost. Of course, we'd both have to be logged in at the same time.

And again, don't be imprudent.

This is a game where imprudence gets you punished.

No. "Griefing" like that has always been part of the game. To argue that is why subs are suddenly falling doesn't explain why they were rising.

Very true.

Which is why I mentioned at the end of my post "Humans, by their very nature, crave for law and order."

There is just no escaping it. Society will continue making new laws in the absence of old laws when you have enough people working together.

I guess its that time again to have this discussion. Eve is designed to be a place where someone can let their "asshat" fly. Fine, I get that it was a purposeful part of the core of this game. So folks can do as morally bankrupt a thing they can pull off. Great, but it all starts with everyone deciding how to act.

I do not begrudge anyone that chooses PvP or even market shenanigans as part of the style they choose. In fact I am impressed when I see folks use those mechanics to achieve some goal. I believe that really is the point of the sandbox, So blow someone up to either get a tribute paid or deny them some resources. Good for you.

What I don't get (and I see it in Eve) is someone just screwing with someone for the "tears". If you take joy just in the act of kicking someone's sand castle down just for the sake of it you likely have some sort of deep seated issue in RL. Just because Eve lets you be a jerk shouldn't mean you should enjoy it. I ran a number of POSs for years that made me a lot of isks on some moons I really couldn't defend. And sure enough after some time folks came by and "sploded" my isk printers. I couldn't complain. In the last case I even gave my last stock pile of fuel to the folks that did it. "Well played" I thought. I've even lost things over "grudges", for example the old BRUCE days produced some violence in space as well of a dust up with the goons over a clear misunderstanding that still has my alliance with a record bounty. I still wear that as a badge of honor! So space is dangerous, I get that. It also means I can't fault folks that have found obvious choke points for trade that produce a steady stream of targets. Again, that is totally keeping with the true spirit of Eve. In fact in a lot of these cases if Eve was just a PvE game a good game designer would put in those same elements. So the fact humans are killing you instead of some in game AI thing is fine with me. Probably makes it an even better experience.

But here is where I think it all falls apart. The true "for the tears" ganker that refuses to admit that kicking over someone space sand castle is no different that real world bullying. I believe that a person who really does it just for the joy of making someone else sad is not a mentally healthy person. That if they really thought they could get away with it in RL they would do it there just the same. Its the kind of person that thinks breaking off the mirror on someone's car is "funny". I sometime have taunted folks that are "in it for the tears" to consider R/L crime. They likely could get away with most and think of the even greater rush!

In the end we only have one thing in our lives of value. A single thing you have a finite amount of and that everything else comes from. Time. When someone labors in a virtual world to create something that persists then the result of those efforts has value. So when someone comes along to blow it up just because they want to get my "tears" it is no different that taking something else away from me in RL that cost me the same amount of time to acquire. I've simplified the argument but I think most folks can see the point I'm trying to make. There is no healthy way to explain away someone choosing to harm another person, even in a virtual world just because they take pleasure in inflicting that harm. Doing that is to demonstrate that you are a sociopath. How anyone that doesn't have some aspect of that they hide in real life could find "role playing" a virtual sociopath enjoyable eludes me.

So players that inflict their PvP on other players for a purpose are part of Eve. Would I prefer a "safe" place from other players in Eve, part of me says "YES"! But lets unwrap that a bit. I think I am going on 12 years in the game and continue to play so that desire for safety hasn't driven me out. I don't see how you could play Eve for long and not realize that the fundamental goal of Eve is to shoot strangers in the face and take their stuff. Sure, the mechanics for accomplishing that goal can be pretty complicated and even involve creating large groups of players to focus on achieving that goal. But in the end you should not be in Eve if you don't see that as the fundamental mechanic. But don't forget the last part "take their stuff". However some folks in Eve seem to confuse that as a justification for just using Eve as a place for them to expose their inner sociopath, Don't expect me to support those folks and the sad immoral game play they exhibit.

If you got blown up ask yourself why? Was it really some random sociopath doing it for the tears? Chances are no. I expect whoever blew you up has some sort of "reason" that in the end can be justified, Even that evil troll under the bridge has a role to play which is to deny use of the bridge to folks that the troll doesn't like. But if you really are blowing folks up and kicking over space sandcastles because you like the "tears" you might want spend some time asking yourself how someone's virtual pain gives you pleasure. I am not sure it is healthy.

In writing this I realize my own view has evolved a bit. Eve really is a vast simulation of a fictional universe where you are going to find all manner of folk. Some are just flat out sociopaths, just like RL. Just in Eve there really aren't any consequences to being one of those sociopaths. But you have to ask yourself how anyone that doesn't have some sort of character flaw could sustain and enjoy that behavior as recreation.

OMG, please take your trigger words and leave my safe space.

And can somebody get me a box of Kleenex?!?!

You could always come down to Misaba and sell me one

You're making a Hugh Mungus deal out of this.

I resemble that remark, I like my lattes.

Interestingly enough the term micro-aggression is often associated with the term victim mentality.

Not going to happen, they have to keep their investors happy. Investors want a return on their investment and until CCP start making a profit from their other products that return is going to come out of Eve.

Hence the recent drive to increase the playerbase and potential income by shitting all over Eve making their existing niche game more mainstream.

Indian, yes perhaps...but British? Buoyant?

The ability for players to impose spaceship violence has always been in the game, sure, but the desire to actively seek "tear extraction" has certainly grown by leaps and bounds. I don't think people are put of simply by ships exploding so much as autistic bile that more frequently comes along with it.

I'm not. You're misunderstand what behaviours I consider to be griefing.

Sure, and that shows that large scale in-game activity promotes new players, but outside of those times it really doesn't hold people interest. And sure, I don't suggest that all of that or even a major part of that is down to griefers, a lot of it is down to bad development, but many people who know about EVE are aware of how EVE players behave.

Why would they? The gameplay is archaic because every time they try to boost something that doesn't directly involve blowing up other players the PvPers start raging out about how ruined the game will be, and by the time you've had your first interaction with another player or seen the forum, you've probably had enough neckbeard for a good long time. Let's be real, most of us are here because we've been playing so long that quitting would seem like a waste.