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Why do people assume how we play the game reflects us in real life?

First post
Author
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#181 - 2016-09-09 13:15:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Yes it is but what you seem to have missed is that shes talking about members of the community she's personally interacted with, not making a general claim about an entire group. Even if she had been the social dynamics of one specific group are functionally irrelevant to a discussion about general ethics.


It was a general claim about gankers as compared to what it defined as white knights, it was rather silly, after all some people just don't need to chest beat about the good things that they do or have done, Jenn a'Snide seems to have missed that pretty obvious element, but that is about normal for that person.

EDIT: Oh look it realised it went too far and tried to come back from that, see the post above this one Roll Who would have thought that Shocked

I call it Jenn a'Snide because I find it amusing and very appropriate.

Jenn you dipstick, how can I ask CCP to nerf people? Oh dear next thing we will see you telling everyone how good at PvE you are...

Jenn do you seriously think I am a SJW, you are an even bigger loon then I think you are for that one, first of all unlike you, you poor little dear, I did not ask a tame ISD to delete parts of my posts including when I first used this little name for you. It was you who shied away from free speech and called in the censorship when I ridiculed you in another thread in came the ISD at your request to remove any mention of you in all of my posts You want the safe space not me...

EDIT2: It is an amusing thing to me that this person also misrepresents what I have asked for in terms of mechanic changes, one was to do something about bumping because it was no consequence PvP which resulted in people being bumped for hours and unable to do anything, not acceptable as game play. The other was to do with loot scooping via a DST which avoided consequences, but I support ganking and war decs in hisec. For Jenn a'Snide that means I want to protect noobs, the whole point of this game is to test yourself against people who like to ruin your day which is why I don't care about whether someone is a sociopath or not, however pointing out mechanic issues which result in no consequences is nerfing people.... Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#182 - 2016-09-09 14:46:03 UTC
Giaus Felix wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's really pathetic to see persons that enjoy to annoy others complaining because the get insulted.

It's deserved and natural players think you are annoying persons even in real life.
By your own metric, I take it that we can safely assume that you're a whinging windbag in real life?


You can think what you want, not a problem for me.

But if I gank someone ingame (knowing how long it takes to get back money/ships/travel back to the place and so on in this game) I think it's pretty obvious he would insult me.

It's reall stupid in my opinion to gank someone and think he will thank me, standing this favourable gain/loss advantage for gankers here.

Factional warfare/nullsec pvp is different, I'm pretty sure insults are much more rare there..... Blink
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#183 - 2016-09-09 15:07:33 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Giaus Felix wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's really pathetic to see persons that enjoy to annoy others complaining because the get insulted.

It's deserved and natural players think you are annoying persons even in real life.
By your own metric, I take it that we can safely assume that you're a whinging windbag in real life?


You can think what you want, not a problem for me.

But if I gank someone ingame (knowing how long it takes to get back money/ships/travel back to the place and so on in this game) I think it's pretty obvious he would insult me.

It's reall stupid in my opinion to gank someone and think he will thank me, standing this favourable gain/loss advantage for gankers here.

Factional warfare/nullsec pvp is different, I'm pretty sure insults are much more rare there..... Blink


Insults are much rarer (but not non existent) in those places because those places are populated by people who understand that they made a choice to play a game were loss is not only possible, but probable.

You inadvertently identified the actual core of the issue of this thread. High Security Space. The second most misleading name for a thing in this game, the only thing worse is the "Invulnerability Field" lol. Hi-sec lies to many (but not all) of it's players, it tells those players "you are safe here" while the underlying mechanics of the game says "you are safe NOWHERE except docked in an npc station". So lots of the people in high sec drink the Kool aid and believe it.

Then another group of people (being the kinds that {A} dislike the kinds of people who would seek safety in a video game and {B} love to see a-type people experience distress) come along and they use the true mechanics of the game to attack the Kool Aid drinkers. Hilarity (and literally millions of whiny words of EVE-O forum posts) ensues.

There are people who live in high sec who do understand the real deal, understand the mechanics and use them to protect themselves and their in game interests (thus "winning the game" in the form of preventing gankers, bumpers, awoxxers and war-dec types from gaining any enjoyment). You would not know it from the forums because people like that don't post, they are too busy actually playing EVE.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#184 - 2016-09-09 15:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Giaus Felix wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's really pathetic to see persons that enjoy to annoy others complaining because the get insulted.

It's deserved and natural players think you are annoying persons even in real life.
By your own metric, I take it that we can safely assume that you're a whinging windbag in real life?


You can think what you want, not a problem for me.

But if I gank someone ingame (knowing how long it takes to get back money/ships/travel back to the place and so on in this game) I think it's pretty obvious he would insult me.

It's reall stupid in my opinion to gank someone and think he will thank me, standing this favourable gain/loss advantage for gankers here.

Factional warfare/nullsec pvp is different, I'm pretty sure insults are much more rare there..... Blink

Insults are to be expected - and yes they are more common in high-sec where people have combat encounters thrust upon them against their will. I would agree with that - and if that was the full extent of it, it wouldn't be worth discussing tbh.

However, I refuse to accept that any gank, theft, scam, or even awox provides justification for the *type* of insults that some of them (and it is a surprisingly large number in my personal experience at least) choose to use. I do not wish to repeat them here - but the speed at which some people descend into flat-out RL racist hate-speech or even darker subjects truly is disturbing. Particularly the specifics and details that all too many "pacifists" in EVE are only too eager to provide...Indicating to me that they spend a large part of their time *consciously thinking* about these things - because they aren't the sort of thing one just makes up on the fly....

And no, I'm not talking about internet classics such as comparisons to Hitler/Nazi germany - nor simple RL death threats. Those are (sadly enough) sufficiently infused into internet culture in general that they just indicate people spend too much time trolling on the internet, I do not take those as a sign of someone being bad or mentally unstable. I'm talking about subjects that don't get discussed on the internet in general, because not even the regular internet trolls are that sick/****ed up.



Incidentally, only semi-related: Proof that people do find people with similar mind-sets to hang out with - back when I dabbled in some awoxing/corp theft as part of my quest to try *everything* in EVE - I did find that on average most corporations not only supported their member spewing such vile thoughts into the corp chat....Most of them actually joined in and actively participated.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#185 - 2016-09-09 15:17:24 UTC
Honestly if I wanted to start farming officer mods I would kill high sec mission runners instead of belt ratting in npc null. Seems like less effort that way.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#186 - 2016-09-09 15:21:45 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Giaus Felix wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's really pathetic to see persons that enjoy to annoy others complaining because the get insulted.

It's deserved and natural players think you are annoying persons even in real life.
By your own metric, I take it that we can safely assume that you're a whinging windbag in real life?


You can think what you want, not a problem for me.

But if I gank someone ingame (knowing how long it takes to get back money/ships/travel back to the place and so on in this game) I think it's pretty obvious he would insult me.


I generally don't expect people to be sore losers. Not adults, anyway.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#187 - 2016-09-09 15:38:33 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
You can think what you want, not a problem for me.

But if I gank someone ingame (knowing how long it takes to get back money/ships/travel back to the place and so on in this game) I think it's pretty obvious he would insult me.
If someone ganks me they get a GF in local, because A: Eve is a game, and B: it's good sportsmanship to congratulate the victor in a game

Quote:
It's reall stupid in my opinion to gank someone and think he will thank me, standing this favourable gain/loss advantage for gankers here.
And therein lies your problem, you aren't a good sport, you're a sore loser.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.

Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#188 - 2016-09-09 16:01:32 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's reall stupid in my opinion to gank someone and think he will thank me, standing this favourable gain/loss advantage for gankers here.



The other day our flight lost two Cats as we were speeding to a juicy Mack in a 0.5 belt. But as our scout was way ahead of us and failed to report HS gate campers, we fell right into their trap.

TBH we didn't say "GJ" or "GF" but we also didn't freak out and let the tears flow. Every encounter, regardless of the outcome, should be a learning experience. So in that sense, saying GF/TY/GJ or whatever is really just saying "thanks for teaching me something".

We got ganked/camped and we learnt something...yay....GF&TY!!!

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#189 - 2016-09-09 16:46:03 UTC
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Honestly if I wanted to start farming officer mods I would kill high sec mission runners instead of belt ratting in npc null. Seems like less effort that way.


Try it and see how far you get, report back please if you manage to get a bite...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#190 - 2016-09-09 16:55:30 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
That's utterly nonsensical, as 52 card pickup is not within the ruleset of poker, whereas the "objectionable behavior" you're attempting to analogize as such IS within the ruleset of Eve.
No, but it is within the rulesets of "playing cards". EVE isn't a game with one ruleset, so it cannot be compared with a single game. EVE is a set of tools for playing in multiple ways, so I was comparing to the same. I'm not suggesting that playing by a different set of valid rules within EVE (ie ganking instead of mining) is wrong, I was simply pointing out one aspect of why someone that gets ganked might be frustrated while someone losing a game of monopoly might not.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#191 - 2016-09-09 16:57:10 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Lol 'cause those mean ol' gankers just aren't playing fair, are they Lucas? lololololol

I'd like to thank the OP for these quality Lucas Kell tears.
That's some pretty low standards you've got there if that meets your criteria for "tears".

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#192 - 2016-09-09 16:58:29 UTC
The problem and the reason why gankers collect most of the insults is very clear to me, and it's very clear the reason too.

You can easily study ganking mechanics from killboards and two things will be very clear to you:

1) It's cheap to gank, and you gain much while ganking

2) Most gankers use bots and it can be clearly seen in killboards, killing ganks are almost always the same, it's few players using several accounts at once, no doubt.

So if you combine how easy it is to gank together with how often it's a botting ganking, you cam imagine how unfair it seems to be ganked by the victims.

I would suggest them to avoid insulting but to report when ganking teams seem to be using bots to make the gank...
Paranoid Loyd
#193 - 2016-09-09 17:05:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
2) Most gankers use bots and it can be clearly seen in killboards, killing ganks are almost always the same, it's few players using several accounts at once, no doubt.
This is certainly an accusation i've never seen before, how would this even work?
I suppose you have some sort of proof?
You do know it's very easy to control multiple accounts at once without using bots right?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#194 - 2016-09-09 17:12:42 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
2) Most gankers use bots and it can be clearly seen in killboards, killing ganks are almost always the same, it's few players using several accounts at once, no doubt.
This is certainly an accusation i've never seen before, how would this even work?
I suppose you have some sort of proof?
You do know it's very easy to control multiple accounts at once without using bots right?


There are killboards with 10 or 15 accounts with identical names used at once...

even the 3/4 teams are almost always the same persons, quite strange they are always online at the same time for months and months...
Paranoid Loyd
#195 - 2016-09-09 17:17:57 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
2) Most gankers use bots and it can be clearly seen in killboards, killing ganks are almost always the same, it's few players using several accounts at once, no doubt.
This is certainly an accusation i've never seen before, how would this even work?
I suppose you have some sort of proof?
You do know it's very easy to control multiple accounts at once without using bots right?


There are killboards with 10 or 15 accounts with identical names used at once...

even the 3/4 teams are almost always the same persons, quite strange they are always online at the same time for months and months...

And if you had ever ganked you would know it does not require a bot to gank with that many accounts. You are stalking ignorant unsuspecting prey that most of the time are not even aware of your existence, in this case you have all the time in the world to operate those accounts. Please educate yourself before making idiotic accusations. If you feel someone is botting report them.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#196 - 2016-09-09 17:21:41 UTC
Did not read this thread, but its very simple.

People who usually think you are exactly like you are irl as you are in eve are usually people who are that way.

So for example, someone who plays eve and is 'a good guy' who mines all day, makes some isk and plays, is that way irl. He/she make the connection, that if you decide to gank them, then because i play like i would be irl, that must mean your a killing ******* irl. None of this is true, its just a disconnect form the concept of both Roleplay, and what a game actually is.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#197 - 2016-09-09 17:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
2) Most gankers use bots and it can be clearly seen in killboards, killing ganks are almost always the same, it's few players using several accounts at once, no doubt.
This is certainly an accusation i've never seen before, how would this even work?
I suppose you have some sort of proof?
You do know it's very easy to control multiple accounts at once without using bots right?


There are killboards with 10 or 15 accounts with identical names used at once...

even the 3/4 teams are almost always the same persons, quite strange they are always online at the same time for months and months...

And if you had ever ganked you would know it does not require a bot to gank with that many accounts. You are stalking ignorant unsuspecting prey that most of the time are not even aware of your existence, in this case you have all the time in the world to operate those accounts. Please educate yourself before making idiotic accusations. If you feel someone is botting report them.


I would still suggest the ganked subject to report, so the security team of CCP can see if the ganker is using ten accounts at the same time without botting.

Blink

You suggested the same so we perfectly agree Big smile
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#198 - 2016-09-09 17:28:10 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody thinks they are a hero, we are just doing what is heeded to get ahead in an environment without consequences.

If you can't handle it I'm sure Hello Kitty online spoonfeeds and protects you enough to your standards


Jenn a'Snide was calling them heros, one of them goes out on missing people searches, and all of them were in the military or emergency services or something like that . It must be true Jenn a'Snide said it... Lol



LInk the post please. I've read two of her posts and while she listed some anecdotal evidence of what some of the "bad guys in EVE" did in RL I don't see claims that gankers are heroes.


Its is in this thread...


And I am seeing some of you gankers apply this comparisons to RL in terms of AG players which you refuse for yourself, please be consistent otherwise people will take you for hypocrites. Shocked


Okay, I don't see it. I saw 2 posts by Jenn and in neither I saw her saying something like gankers or scammers being heroes for being gankers or scammers. So...I'll assume, as usual, you got nothing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Paranoid Loyd
#199 - 2016-09-09 17:29:02 UTC
Wat?

You said everyone, we both know you are referring to one guy. If you don't think plenty of people have already reported him you are kidding yourself. What he is doing is perfectly fine.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#200 - 2016-09-09 17:29:39 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's really pathetic to see persons that enjoy to annoy others complaining because the get insulted.

It's deserved and natural players think you are annoying persons even in real life.


Well in that case, IRL I think you are an *******.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online