Player Features and Ideas Discussion

By your logic then making base frigates cost twice what battleships cost is okay and newbros just have to suck it up. There is a scaling of ISK cost for most, if not all items for a reason, you tend to have less income at lower levels when flying T1 hulls, then when you're flying around in a TITAN.

Cheap T1 frigate or Destroyer and cheap small MTU.

Semi to full bling GOLEM and a larger more expensive MTU.

Is the core concept of EVE that one class of vessels must give something up that other ships get and get nothing in return because that doesnt seem a core EVE value to me.

If i fly a golem i can hit any npc frigate i know of even if it is point blank range orbiting me but it could take several volleys for me to kill it. On the other hand a turret boat might be able to kill off two of the same frigate in one volley but has to deal with the possibility that a frigate can get under his guns at which point he can do zero damage to the frigate with his main weapon.

example assumes only the trade off between main weapons both probably will have light or medium drones to kill frigates but that doesnt make the point i was trying to make here.

Don't put words in my mouth, it's very rude.


Straw man is an extremely frowned upon debating tactic and every time you start a post with " by your logic " it's painfully obvious that's what you're doing

The mtu is a standard object with some variations, if you feel the need to have something that does something similar but needs a few tweaks for it to work, you have options with certain setbacks

Making frigates cost twice as much as battleships would make absolutely no difference in this case as this is just arbitrary number shifting. People would just start off using the next cheapest thing, destroyers and if you made it so the starting ship was battleships that cost 200mil, obviously nobody would be able to afford this and prices will come down.

Market value for the magpie is a reflection on the rarity and desirability of the attributes. Of course people want smaller mtu because it allows more room for loot, however to balance the improvement you're getting you have to pay more for it.

Should newbros pay more for officer fit mods over the standard stuff, absolutely. Should newbros pay more for a basic item like an MTU than people sitting on billions or trillions of isk, not even sorta okay.

I'm shocked to learn that there are some drawbacks to flying a small, fast, agile ship. News at 11!

How is a 400m3 hold not big enough to carry a MTU? The t1 exploration frigates, which get a bonus to salvager cycle time, each have 400m3 holds.

Use the right ship for the job, or choose to lose that low slot to fit a cargo extender when adapting something else to do it.

Yes, let's talk about the right tool for the job and it is NOT an exploration frigate. The exploration frigate isnt bonused for combat missions so lets like at the proper tools for the job and see what the situation is?


Rifter: hold capacity 140 m3

Incursis: hold capacity 160 m3

Kestrel: hold capacity 160 m3

Punisher: hold capacity 135 m3


Now, just for laughs lets add a expanded cargo II to the Punisher and see where that gets us:

135m3 x 1.275 = 172m3

Now, for even more laughs lets stick a 100m3 MTU into it.

Even after putting a dps and tank killing mod onto the ship, 58.1% of the ships cargo capacity is filled with an MTU!

Thank you for really shinning a light onto the problem that needs addressed, i must say excellent argument in favor of the mini MTU.