Intergalactic Summit

What about the children of those 'dispossessed'? They're not orphans. They're not the kids of workers, either. That's the big hole I've been seeing in this: do they get punished for the crimes of their parents?



Eh, as Aria's pointed out, it works both ways. We get worked up easily, and for some reason, when things get intense, anger's our default setting for the last, I dunno eight, ten centuries. It's a mystery for the ages!



It does seem impossible to get one's head around, I know. But then, I also know that just a week ago, I watched twenty Blood Raider battleships vaporize in under a minute, and that pilot personally dealt with over two dozen of their havens that day. And that didn't seem to even thin the pirates' numbers. The number of ships the Empires must lose due solely to capsuleer 'mission' intervention boggles the mind, and they seem to have no regard for that cost. I can't help but think all of them could be putting those lives, resources, and labor toward better ends.



Yeah, that was a cheap shot, I'll cop to that. See just above 'secondly'.



One of the biggest problems that humans have is our ability to adapt, to endure, to inure ourselves to things. We focus, we tune out the distractions. I can't count the number of times I'd finish working on a ventilation system, or repairing a fluid pump (water, when I was lucky. When I wasn't... well, there's a lot of degrees of 'not lucky'), crawl my way through the conduits back home, and get yelled at by my mom because my arm, or my back, or my scalp was bleeding. Too focused. Couldn't afford to pay attention to that momentary discomfort from getting too close to something, or having something snap or misfire or...

Point is, we're wired to adapt our way around hardship. Sometimes, it takes a different set of eyes to remind us about something we'd forgotten even setting aside as 'deal with it later'. That said, there's a term for someone who just won't let something go, and who keeps going on and on and ranting and frothing and driving people nuts over something.

No, I don't mean 'Goon', though, you know... it could be. But I just don't think limiting the perjorative's scope to just that gives any respect to our fine scammers, spies, rat bastards, reavers, and general lowest-rung of humanity mindset. I just meant 'a-hole'. Which is another thing I'll totally cop to, on occasion. But I try. So, piece: said. Go: lettin'.

Where's it going to 'vanish' to?

We've already established that they'll spend it. We've already established that that creates demand and drives the engine of commerce, which creates jobs, drives growth, blah blah blah.

So where is it vanishing?

The only time money vanishes is when it goes into the pockets of someone who doesn't need to spend it, but can afford to sock it away, usually in commodities that they hope will appreciate in value.

Absolutely no-one has suggested promoting sloth and hedonism. What's been said is that they're more of a drag on the economy when not contributing at all. They contribute to crime to try to get what they need. They present a public health risk due to poor healthcare and lack of preventative medicine providing a microbial paradise for the growth of potential epidemics.

And no, the money doesn't flow directly back to the corporation nearly so efficiently as you seem to think it does. Because it doesn't get given back directly. It gets used to buy things that people had to be paid to make. It gets filtered through many pockets, just like every other ISK spent does.

As for 'what if they spend it somewhere else?' Well, then the same thing happens as what goes on when a worker spends their paycheck somewhere else: that other corporation's demand increases, so they can produce more, employing more people, who will all need what you're selling just as much as your people need what they're selling.

Every ISK anyone earns as a paycheck, someone else spent. So the more you drive spending, the more the reciprocating engine turns, and the more of a demand there will be for your products (if they're any good). The big 8 are diversified enough to take advantage of that, while still specialized enough in their areas of focus to not only tolerate one another's competition, but to benefit from it.

Too many words long live tribe.

I'll grant you that the dispossessed aren't pretty and neither is the State's solution to them. If you want to call it a solution. Basically they get treated like a bad debt or any other toxic asset and get written off.

Now, please understand that I hate talking about this. These people represent not only their own personal failures, but also the failures of their Divisions, their Companies and their Corporations. In a real way they represent the failure of the State. Talking about it with other Caldari is difficult enough, talking about it with foreigners in a public forum? Commence the squirming.

How many dispossessed are there? I run a charity aimed at them and I don't have any hard numbers at all. Where do they come from? Tragedy. Either the kind of individual tragedy that follows drug abuse, problems with crime or just the sort of incompetence that can't be managed by workplace training initiatives or the kind of collective tragedy that follows a set back so bad that the financial integrity of the sponsoring company is compromised.

The problem with working out exactly how bad the situation can be is that every company has different policies in these areas. Moreover the type of employment contract you have will clearly delineate what kind of severance package you're looking at and how it'll be enforced. This isn't necessarily a case of wealthier equalling better, either. A powerful group of employees like the welding cooperatives at a large shipyard will have negotiated generous packages. A far-out-of-mainstream media production group operating at the near-edge of the profit envelope might not have much of a cushion at all when their contract is terminated.

But everything comes from your corporate affiliation - you barter for your life's goods with your skills and your sweat. Where, in that equation, is there room for something for nothing? It can't be a loan - any worker with the kind of prospects that would make collateral for a loan wouldn't need it in the first place. The Corporation can't give grants because the Dispossessed are the kind of people that they never want in their ranks again - criminals, addicts or just the terminally lazy and unskilled.

What happens to those sorts of people in other cultures?

Obviously, I can't speak for the Empire, the State, or even large parts of the Tribes, but among the Stjörnauga, criminals are punished. That can include labor, imprisonment, compulsory enlistment... exile's not unknown, but it's sort of a last resort among a clan that's predominantly ensconced on orbital installations. It's used in those situations where capital punishment's deemed appropriate, but for some reason not feasible or inadvisable.

I'm not sure why 'the unskilled' are on your list of 'people [a corporation would] never want in their ranks again'. Wouldn't they want people who can be trained to meet their needs? Even if they somehow can't learn, there's always a need for manual labor. That's true even if somehow you manage to remain unskilled growing up in an environment where literally the only entertainment to be had is usually tinkering with the machines that keep you from freezing and explosively decompressing.

Really, it's not as dangerous as it sounds. Usually. Anyway.

As for the 'terminally lazy'... is that even a thing? People, in general, want to be self-sufficient. They want to have a measure of self-respect. It's just a question of finding the thing that calls to them. That can take time, but when you do, they're far more productive that way than they would be being miserable doing something else.

In the meantime, the Clan cares for the Clan. They're kin. They're blood. Same with addicts. We take care of our own in our infirmity and need, just as they'd care for us in ours. We all contribute to the health and welfare of the whole Clan. To do less would cheapen the very foundation of our society. It's why I set aside the majority of my earnings into an account accessible only to specific members of the Clan's leadership - which doesn't include me, by the way. I can't get that money back if I'm feeling irritable or I've lost a few expensive assets that week. I'm told my mother's used some of those funds to improve and upgrade the primary and secondary atmospheric processors across the Huggar station (where she's the head of station maintenance, these days), and the rest of it's controlled by my great uncle for the general use of the Clan.

In the bigger picture, beyond the Clan, the same applies among the Tribe, on a more diffuse level. The Tribe looks after the Tribe. Obviously, the difficulty of bringing our refugee population back into the fold and re-integrating them into society is something we've had some trouble with. In part, as near as I can see, this is because of the breakdown in the system that occurs when the Clan is shattered or crippled.

I'd guess that's functionally similar to what you're talking about when a corporation fails, but the Clans aren't profit-driven. Clans don't 'go out of business'. So in order for a Clan to fail like that, there has to be a catastrophic event at the root of it. At least in principle, though, the other Clans of the Tribe are supposed to rally to help rebuild that Clan. That, of course, gets very difficult when that Clan is so horribly obliterated that the survivors have no sense of kinship or Clan, or don't remember the traditions that once bound them to one another so tightly.

But in principle, at least, our culture's answer to 'what happens to these sorts of people?' is that we try to lift them up and get them contributing again, however we can. They're our blood. How could we throw them away like a broken earpiece?

I am going to point out a flaw, Arrendis. From my experience in Skarkon, not everyone desires self-sufficiency. There are many who sought free handouts. A large proportion of the Sahaal City population is like that.

You might wonder where they are getting their free and easy daily bread. The answer is 'Angel Cartel'. Of course, there are strings attached. They just didn't see it or chose to ignore it as they go into those shady places the Cartel call 'Soup Kitchen' for their daily bread. For as long as they get their daily bread and every sampling of sin they can sink their teeth in, they will deny dignity and good-sense.

Even more so when organized crime is practically government.

(From Part One)

At the same time, her drinking and use of legal stimulants has begun to attract the attention of law-enforcement. Previously she has received nothing more than a few cautions for being excessively intoxicated in public. Inevitably she crosses the line and winds up held overnight - nothing too serious, but it means she's very late for her shift and shows up in the clothes she went drinking in.

Because Jaan's been a problem employee, HR takes immediate notice. Her supervisor is ordered to relocate her to the least important assignment area on the station, where her poor performance can have the least impact on the work of others. She's moved onto a down-shift work pattern and in the area she's in that means she's no longer part of a team. Jaan works alone, now, doing the simplest and dirtiest work using the oldest machines in places where very few will even be aware of her contributions.

Further meetings are scheduled. Now her Supervisor isn't called to attend them - his evaluations of her work are sufficient. The Collective representative dedicates less and less time in preparing for her meetings, because there is always more work than people to do it and she doesn't seem to want to be helped. Jaan has developed a very dark attitude towards company management, distancing herself from not only the management, but administrative personnel. She doesn't have any company spirit, doesn't attend any optional social gatherings, applies for no training courses and saves her socialising for her fellow barflies instead of her kirjuun.

By now, anyone who had been in her cohort has written her off. Most of them are beginning to take supervisory roles in their workplace now. They network with each other, helping those who have fallen behind to catch up and leveraging relationships with those who have gotten ahead. Jaan is a liability now. She has nothing to offer and has made no effort to keep up her relationship with the rest of her peer group.

Her family has not so much disowned her as they have also written her off. Others of her siblings have families now, new homes and achivements to show off. Her parents are tracking the progress of their grand-children at creche. Friends of the family don't even mention Jaan to her parents or siblings. After she turned up to the last holidays reeking of spirits and wired on Crash she wasn't invited back. She barely notices.

Now that she's missed several pay bumps, bonuses and cost of living increases, Jaan is finding it harder to make ends meet. She's not great at budgeting in the first place and the fines for her drunkenness and the state of her barracks space eat up even more of her income. She can barely afford to drink and consume drugs at the rate she used to in her youth, if it weren't for the fact that her meals are catered at the barracks, she'd probably be skipping meals to get drunk or high by now.

Because she is so often unsupervised at work, she has taken to alcohol as a means of making her shift go by quicker. Nobody wants to spend the time on checking a job that is so unimportant, so her lack of work goes unnoticed until she screws up in a major way. Management are forced to take notice and it becomes clear that lack of supervision is not tenable - Jaan is demoted, fined and moved to work that is rigidly supervised and structured. She attempts to pull herself together, but years of substance abuse, lax supervision and laziness have taken their toll. She simply can't handle the stress of her new position and cracks, publicly and violently, assaulting her supervisor.

By the time Jaan leaves the hospital, the paperwork has already been done. She has burned every bridge, turned down every offer of help and is clearly not fit to be a citizen of the Caldari State. She is mentally, physically and morally unfit for the duty that is part and parcel of any Citizen's life. The company fires her with cause and charges are preferred against her for the assault. Jaan is now part of the dispossessed - while she's in jail her meager belongings are removed from the barracks and she loses access to all the benefits that even a drudge enjoys in the State.

What happens to Jaan now? Perhaps she quits the drinking and drugs, having hit bottom, and works hard at any job she can get. Eventually she might earn a temporary contract with a legitimate company that turns into a solid job offer from a supervisor that likes her attitude and work ethic. Sadly it's likely that she does odd jobs for whatever company is desperate for unskilled labour while continuing her drinking and drug habits as best she can.

No company is there to see that she gets medical help for injuries or sickness. If she can't work she doesn't eat. It's not hard to predict a sad end for Jaan, in this case.

Your first thought on reading that is that I left out important details?

Maker, but you're hard on a poor man!