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EXEFILE Login To Be Discontinued On September 20th

First post First post
Author
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
#301 - 2016-09-21 12:29:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Drazz Caylen
Estidalor wrote:
There are many people out there still using win vista or xp that have no desire to upgrade their os or pc.
First, there is no possible way for you to claim "many people." Please show me your metrics. Because when I show you mine, you'll see Windows XP and Vista being so little already, it's economically negligible. The best figure I could possibly produce is "less than 1 in 10". And this is on a global level. This does not even account for if people are even able to play Eve based on their hardware alone, just OS usage. So whoever says "many" has a perceptive problem and wants to create a false narrative just to fit their bill.

Second, I've been writing a couple of private mails already and mentioned on the forums and I say it again;

You don't need to spend a lot of money to make EvE run smooth again.

Windows 7 professional can be purchased for about 60 bucks, these are legit, unused OEM keys which are legal to be sold. Support will still run to 2020. Win 7 pro has a Windows XP emulation which has been solely created to be backwards compatible for companies who still have to rely on software using Windows XP architecture. That being said, even the compatibility mode of Win7 is much better than winXP.

A video card to support DirectX 11 is many years old already. If you have anything of the Geforce 400 series (2010) or above, and anything of the Radeon 5000 series (2009) or above, you're fine. We're talking about 6 to 7 years here. This is ways beyond "burning through hardware" and is fairly reasonable. Depending on what kind of DX11 features CCP actually uses, you could even work it out with DX 10.1 compatible cards, as many features from 10.1 are in DX11 already. That could allow you to go back another one or two generations. Anything in the price range of these cards to likely replace the one you already have is again very reasonable (even below 100), if you don't have a compatible one already. I talk about factory new cards here, not the used market. Not to mention you could possibly cut even with the investment of a new GPU since newer generations are more power efficient. Electricity bill is something almost everyone ignores when calculating their rig cost ROI.

I bid my fair time in upgrading my computers too. For example, when everyone jumped to Windows XP, I still was happy with my Dualboot of 2000 / 98. Only when Windows XP was ripe enough some time after Service pack 3, it was good enough for me to use it. Only a few months ago I made the step to Windows 7 which coincided with a new computer for work related reasons and the requirement to have an operating system which can actually run the software I require. I do not regret the upgrade.

Nobody in any posts could ever give a solid reason for why they don't want to upgrade. It was only "I dun wanna learn new things." Well suck it up, that's life. It's full of learning new things. Embrace it, don't fight it. Nobody could give me a work related reason why they still have to use Windows XP. Anyone who still has windows XP and has the money or time to play EvE online, can also afford a copy of Windows 7 and/or the GPU required. It's that simple.

The only reason anyone can still log in on Windows XP is luck. Not because CCP changed their minds, rather that they haven't rolled out all changes yet.
Companies are no longer legally obliged to support Windows XP since 2014.
I'm sure CCP would be happy to continue support Windows XP and Vista and DX9 if the complainers come up with the excess money to provide the additional staff necessary. But since these people can't even get a copy of Windows 7 or a GPU that is already a few years old, I doubt you'd do that.
Dave PSI
Haendlergilde
Gilde Alliance
#302 - 2016-09-21 15:10:58 UTC
At first i was a bit angry, that ccp removed the front end login. But i was still using the old launcher, which sucked to be honest.

But i gave the New Launcher a try and i have to say i like it. Didn't know it is possible to log in all account at once!!!!
I really like the change.
Estidalor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#303 - 2016-09-21 15:32:13 UTC
Drazz Caylen wrote:
Estidalor wrote:
There are many people out there still using win vista or xp that have no desire to upgrade their os or pc.
The best figure I could possibly produce is "less than 1 in 10". And this is on a global level.



If you don't consider 10% of the player base many than you are a fool.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#304 - 2016-09-21 16:59:44 UTC
Estidalor wrote:
Drazz Caylen wrote:
Estidalor wrote:
There are many people out there still using win vista or xp that have no desire to upgrade their os or pc.
The best figure I could possibly produce is "less than 1 in 10". And this is on a global level.



If you don't consider 10% of the player base many than you are a fool.



Where, exactly, have you got 10% from? CCP have metrics on what people are using. The number they're getting is, to their mind, not worth the extra time and money supporting.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#305 - 2016-09-21 17:42:09 UTC
According to Wikipedia, WinXP is down to 6.3%. It celebrates it's 15th birthday next month and it hasn't had an update since SP3 in 2008 - that's a long time in this industry and it's time to move on!
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
#306 - 2016-09-21 23:31:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Drazz Caylen
TL;DR - not liking stats out of the ordinary? Just want to have your EvE related fix? Scroll to the bottom past the line.

Estidalor wrote:
If you don't consider 10% of the player base many than you are a fool.
Do you even context?
I never said 10% of the playerbase. I said a figure that is less than 1 in 10 (which means less than 10%) of OVERALL average operating system use world wide, which has nothing to do with the metrics for gamers or a specific game after all.

No, one in ten is never many. It's a few. Nobody would ever say to a group of 10 people in a crowd of 100 "many". Colloquially, I've seen the term "many" used with an approximation to 50% or above, paired up there with "lots", although lots usually inclines more. "one in ten" is some. Or few. You have to put it in perspective. 100.000 people sounds like many, but 100.000 people compared to one million people is not many. Keep the relation.

Still you have not provided any reasonable metrics to back up your assumption. But I can. CCP related metrics only? Scroll down again past the line.
On other fronts, let me help you out there. It doesn't even take much work you know. This flimsy research took me just a few minutes, much less time than writing this post and compiling the numbers over.

netmarketshare.com for August 2016, world wide: 9.36% WinXP , 1.5% Vista, 6.79% MacOS X (EvE supported), ~0.6% MacOS X (EvE unsupported), 2.11% Linux.
gs.statcounter.com for July 2016, world wide: 6.36% WinXP, 9.61% MacOS X, Vista and Linux probably somewhere in the 5.16% "other"
analytics.wikimedia.org for recent date 2016 (if we double all operating system percentages because I'm nice and say half of the stats are from mobile, thus irrelevant): WinXP 4%, Vista 1%, MacOS 11%, Linux 1,4%
AV-comparatives.org small 14-day sample of 2022 users in December 2015: 2.7% WinXP, 0.8% Vista, 2.7% MacOS, and Linux was somewhere in the 2.5% mark.
Steam Hardware Survey August 2016: 1.56% WinXP, Vista 0.24% , MacOS X 3.34% , Linux 0.83%

These are various sample sizes and demographics but you can see clearly where I got the "almost 1 in 10" as best case scenario for Windows XP. It dwindles massively from then on as the highest WinXP numbers are from globalized data.
Since statcounter has such a nice filter option, I could peek at official language breakdowns and check the individual countries but some have two official languages which makes comparisons go funky.
I'll break it down by certain "regional biggies" which I guess are okay to compare, also in accordance to eve online language subforums. All the data is July 2016.

Europe: WinXP 5.81%, MacOS X 10.53%, Linux 2.12
North America: WinXP 3.32%, MacOS X 16.82%
Oceania: WinXP 2.32%, Vista 1.47%, MacOS X 21.72%
Japan: WinXP 2.53%, Vista 2.85%, MacOS X 16.31%,
Russia: WinXP 9.35%, MacOS X 5.1%

There you go, some demographics for you without even asking or touching CCP's own surveys. These numbers are collected from everywhere and everyone, not just gamers.
If you go to any site which is more gaming related in content which has a survey, the numbers for Windows XP are similar to the Steam Survey.

Admittedly I have no idea why the minimum system requirements for MacOS are so tight to be 10.9+ which is only from 2013 but then again it seems you can upgrade free from the version that came out in 2007 or so. Which is still a ways away from Windows XP 2001.

I don't know how many maintain the Linux or mac client. I don't know how difficult it is through Linux and MacOS distributions to keep everything compatible and running with EvE. I do know there are grave differences between WinXP <--> Vista & Win7 <--> 8 & 8.1 & 10. Albeit Win10 is technically 8.2 with a lot of special snowflakyness... let's just not go there.
Let's also not touch the DirectX debate, especially when we have to consider other APIs like Vulkan / OpenGL and Metal.

--------------------------- tis the line I was talkin' about before ---------------------------


But what's that, you don't care about all this? ...only about what CCP says?
You are hereby served:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Windows Vista - 0.6%
Windows XP - 0.8%
Source
"Many", huh? Nowhere near. Please do yourself some service and consider backing up your claims before you make yourself look like a total fool. Mind you, these numbers seem to be from a Windows total perspective, not taking Linux and mac into account. Else these numbers would look even worse.

Wanting to know what CCP's stance on Vulkan is if you think the Windows train should die in a fire?
Served again:
CCP Explorer wrote:
At some time in the maybe-not-so-distant-but-still-a-fair-bit-away future, then DirectX 11, OpenGL and Metal, will start to show their age. APIs such as Vulkan and DirectX 12 will then take over.
Source


Forum search man. With filters. Powerful tool. LolP
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#307 - 2016-09-22 06:20:00 UTC
seriously, CCP, if you take away exefile.exe, at least make sure your ****** launcher is working properly!!!
Not like you had no time to make it work decently and wipe out blatant bugs.

After I had to restore all my client settings for every single ******* character I use, your launcher forgets accounts too!!

Double thumbs down.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#308 - 2016-09-22 09:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Explorer
Spiezor wrote:
T +1 and I can still log on with XP.
I'm very glad CCP seem to have changed their minds, and I doubt I'm the only one. CCP's net stats may say use is minimal, but global stats say XP is still being used on more than 10% of machines globally.
Personally I won't upgrade to any MS OS, I looked at Vista, horrible, win 7 is meh, and tbh I've heard nothing but complaints about 8 & 10.
when the time comes I'll migrate to linux, until then I hope CCP re-evaluates their decision to get rid of XP.
We haven't changed our minds, the ticket/work that will cause the old Launcher to stop working is about 4/9th done. The new Launcher doesn't support Windows XP so you won't be able to update or log in.

We are not going to re-evaluate our decision to stop Windows XP. When we decided to revamp the launcher in mid-2015 then we looked around for frameworks to write it in that would support Windows and Mac. We settled on Qt, and it doesn't support Windows XP. We looked at our metrics and based on the trend decided that time had come for Windows XP (and Windows Vista). The usage had become small, was becoming smaller and we couldn't justify using a subpar framework for our purposes nor the continued overhead of testing on XP and Vista.

I know that there are people who still use Windows XP and many more who remember it fondly (in particular SP2+). Unlike Windows Vista that nobody liked nor Windows 8. But since Windows XP there have been Windows 7, 8.1 and now 10 that have seen great adoption. Personally I really liked Windows 8 because of features like Storage Spaces and the Start Button was quickly replaced by 3rd party software and then 8.1.

The time has passed for Windows XP. We should remember it, but we should stop using it.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#309 - 2016-09-22 10:25:19 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Explorer
Drazz Caylen wrote:
But what's that, you don't care about all this? ...only about what CCP says?
You are hereby served:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Windows Vista - 0.6%
Windows XP - 0.8%
Source
"Many", huh? Nowhere near. Please do yourself some service and consider backing up your claims before you make yourself look like a total fool. Mind you, these numbers seem to be from a Windows total perspective, not taking Linux and mac into account. Else these numbers would look even worse.
Updated numbers:
  • Windows 10 - 58.4%
  • Windows 8.1 - 6.7%
  • Windows 8 - 1.1%
  • Windows 7 - 30.2%
  • Windows Vista - 0.5%
  • Windows XP - 0.3%

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2016-09-22 11:18:05 UTC
No offence but 0.8% we really don't care about you if your sole goal is to hold the rest of us back.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#311 - 2016-09-22 12:10:38 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
No offense but 0.8% we really don't care about you if your sole goal is to hold the rest of us back.

I'm sure that is not their goal in any way. Their goal is to not have to expend time and effort to move from an OS they like and know to one they do not like and have to learn.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Fossor Wintersky
Ordinus Ursorum Cautorum
#312 - 2016-09-22 21:27:49 UTC
Thank you, CCP.

Now I can't launch your fu..d game.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2016-09-23 14:40:05 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
No offense but 0.8% we really don't care about you if your sole goal is to hold the rest of us back.

I'm sure that is not their goal in any way. Their goal is to not have to expend time and effort to move from an OS they like and know to one they do not like and have to learn.


and all the vulnerabilities, incompatibilities that come with it.

No not slowing down progress at all Roll
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#314 - 2016-09-23 16:58:39 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
No not slowing down progress at all Roll

Oh, the progress. That's how you call it.

I was installing some device at client's lab. At the end of the day, chief of the lab comes in, I show her the device is working and we're about to head home. I'm switching off the comp. But then, the progress happened. "You cannot switch me off, miserable human" - said Windows, - "I am updating." Bloody hell! During installation, I connected to the internet trough 3G. I wasnt supposed to, the lab had no connection for ~reasons~ but now I'm busted. Alright, we're adult people and after some explanations tensions dissipate - lab chief seems to forgive me. "I'm still updating" - reminded Windows. So we went on talking. And talking. And on and on. And talking some more. And more. And even more. "Not yet" - Windows was taking its time. We discussed stuff. And other stuff. And even unrelated stuff was discussed too. "Ok, I'm done" - after about an hour Windows seems like felt my intentions to find some sledge hummer.

I for one like the progress. I just dont like when it's pushed down my throat.
That being said, I totally understand CCP's decision and have no objections.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#315 - 2016-09-25 18:18:59 UTC
seems to me that the problem is not windows, but **** hardware or not enough planning around a large patch.

All of which stems from what, oh that's right: YOU
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#316 - 2016-09-27 13:14:53 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
No offense but 0.8% we really don't care about you if your sole goal is to hold the rest of us back.

I'm sure that is not their goal in any way. Their goal is to not have to expend time and effort to move from an OS they like and know to one they do not like and have to learn.



If people aren't tech savvy enough to learn a new OS, then there is absolutely no way that they are tech savvy enough to use XP or Vista without something falling through all of the vulnerabilities that still exist in those systems and that are not getting patched out.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Don Pera Saissore
#317 - 2016-09-30 12:33:47 UTC
Tyfanna
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#318 - 2016-09-30 12:49:29 UTC
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
http://imgur.com/tUoeEtZ

good job guys


Same here, well i get some more content of the launcher but i can't log in or anything....thank you CCP for your reliable launcher and that you listened to your playerbase and waited with removing the exe-file login until the launcher was free of flaws...wait...

you fuckin kiddin me?
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#319 - 2016-09-30 13:00:39 UTC
so i'm not alone can't log in

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”

Andrew Gernander
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#320 - 2016-09-30 13:03:35 UTC
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
http://imgur.com/tUoeEtZ

good job guys



I had that one this morning. Running the launcher as administrator, doing the file verification, making sure cache permissions were correct, resetting version info, then restarting the computer got it to launch for me.

I'm running a vista laptop on a cellular wi-fi connection and borrowed time.

Not my main gaming PC and I'm saving up for a new one, but the roulette of eve launching/not launching on the old bird keeps me on my toes. Twisted