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[Proposal] Planetary Interaction 2.1 - [PI Future Vision Roadmap]

First post
Author
Omega Tron
Edge Dancers
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#21 - 2011-12-24 19:51:24 UTC
1st off I'd like to say that the work you've done in putting this together and thinking it thru is - brilliant, detailed and well thought out.

However, I believe you've got one very flawed assumption on which you efforts are based. That assumption is that CCP has the skills and management drive to implement it -- in short they do not. The development history of EVE is layered with so many half baked designs and implmentations and so there is no chance that CCP can do this within the code design size limits of 4GB that they have set. That limitation in their thinking and code architecture will ensure that this can not be implemented. The concept of a development architecture that encompesses DLC is not what they are setup for and skilled up to do.

I am truly sorry to point out these flaws that CCP has self imposed.

My suggestion is you should save you time and effort for now.

CCP's sand box is EVE Online.  The sand is owned by CCP.  We pay them a monthly fee to throw the sand at each other.  That is all that is here, so move along. Nothing more to be seen.

Horus V
The Destined
#22 - 2011-12-24 20:21:29 UTC
I like MI. Just look at the wormholes. we can setup POS in there but you cant interact with moons?
PI ideas are just perfect !

+1

V

FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-12-25 04:01:43 UTC
Terrific, as always.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

bornaa
GRiD.
#24 - 2011-12-25 14:00:30 UTC
Supporting this!
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Susiqueta Muir
NEXUS Holdings Inc.
#25 - 2011-12-25 15:37:10 UTC
Will read this fully once Christmas dinner is over and done with (Have a great one everybody BTW).

+1.

SM.
Steveir
Hagukure
#26 - 2011-12-25 17:09:52 UTC
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant - for God sake give this person a job and make it happen :)
+1 ^ 1000000000000000000000000
Mistress Terrify
Hagukure
#27 - 2011-12-25 17:12:44 UTC
Ye Gods, it must have take you months to do this. Great suggestions, I hope that CCP is listening; if they are not, then I'm up for some serious whipping!
+1
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#28 - 2011-12-25 19:14:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ingvar Angst
I guess the question to ask is this... someone running twenty, thirty-plus planets... how much work does this add to their already busy PI? How will it affect POS fuel prices? Will smaller corps dependant on less insane fuel prices wind up having their POS's shut down because of the side effects of this?

What are the ripple effects? How will it ultimately affect T2 production? Research? Everything the little guy with a POS in high sec does for a living?

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#29 - 2011-12-25 19:42:51 UTC
Steveir wrote:
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant - for God sake give this person a job and make it happen :)
+1 ^ 1000000000000000000000000



so, +1 then? Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#30 - 2011-12-25 20:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Ingvar Angst wrote:
I guess the question to ask is this... someone running twenty, thirty-plus planets... how much work does this add to their already busy PI? How will it affect POS fuel prices? Will smaller corps dependant on less insane fuel prices wind up having their POS's shut down because of the side effects of this?

What are the ripple effects? How will it ultimately affect T2 production? Research? Everything the little guy with a POS in high sec does for a living?


1) It should be the same or similar time investment.

2) The little guy will shut down his hi-sec POS and do it all on hi-sec cities on planets. Or he can keep his POS. I don't care either way. The costs of setting up individual networks with slots will be the same as a POS. Only drawback would be that the POS uses fuel where individual networks dont, but the networks will cost isk to operate each month where the POS doesn't. If on the other hand, that network joins a city, it'l be very much like a POS in terms of cost. So it'l depend on the player and what he prefers.

3) POS fuel prices should remain largely as they are now, if not suffer a reduction in prices. Cities will consume POS fuels, as well as make more of them via bonuses to industrial networks spitting them out, so there should be a bit of an equilibrium thing going.

4) There will be an increase in t2 production and moongoo, in the medium to long terms. SO expect a decrease in prices associated with those items. This will also open up invention and moongo items to the little guy and take the monopoly away from 0.0 alliances and coalitions who hoard up all the techmoons they can find.

5) More slots, no more cues for slots = more research.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#31 - 2011-12-26 00:15:06 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
I guess the question to ask is this... someone running twenty, thirty-plus planets... how much work does this add to their already busy PI? How will it affect POS fuel prices? Will smaller corps dependant on less insane fuel prices wind up having their POS's shut down because of the side effects of this?

What are the ripple effects? How will it ultimately affect T2 production? Research? Everything the little guy with a POS in high sec does for a living?


1) It should be the same or similar time investment.

2) The little guy will shut down his hi-sec POS and do it all on hi-sec cities on planets. Or he can keep his POS. I don't care either way. The costs of setting up individual networks with slots will be the same as a POS. Only drawback would be that the POS uses fuel where individual networks dont, but the networks will cost isk to operate each month where the POS doesn't. If on the other hand, that network joins a city, it'l be very much like a POS in terms of cost. So it'l depend on the player and what he prefers.

3) POS fuel prices should remain largely as they are now, if not suffer a reduction in prices. Cities will consume POS fuels, as well as make more of them via bonuses to industrial networks spitting them out, so there should be a bit of an equilibrium thing going.

4) There will be an increase in t2 production and moongoo, in the medium to long terms. SO expect a decrease in prices associated with those items. This will also open up invention and moongo items to the little guy and take the monopoly away from 0.0 alliances and coalitions who hoard up all the techmoons they can find.

5) More slots, no more cues for slots = more research.


Hmm... and, considering Dust will not take effect in wormhole space, how would things work there? Cities and all that don't really make sense in frontier space.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#32 - 2011-12-26 09:09:39 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:


Hmm... and, considering Dust will not take effect in wormhole space, how would things work there? Cities and all that don't really make sense in frontier space.


Cities will be setup as it is in empire, low sec or 0.0.

But cities can only be wiped out by sub caps and capital ships in teh whs, since Dust wont work in whs and incursions dont happen there, leaving it up to the Eve players to do all the work.

Industrial networks can provide ice for wh towers from ice planets, thus eliminating the need for wh players to bring stuff into the wh. They would still have to go sell their lewt in empire, or they can use the cities to turn their wh into a new drone region, where they recycle and use everything. They could even start constructing super caps in whs.

Cities would allow wh alliances to entrench themselves even more in a wh, making for more good fights in order to serve eviction notices.

So it makes perfect sense.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Yin Akacha
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-26 15:28:48 UTC
I fully endorse this proposal +100000
Xandralkus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-12-26 17:30:11 UTC
CCP needs to contact Asuka Solo about becoming part of the dev team. This is the most impressive proposal I believe I've ever seen.

Eve UI wouldn't suck if CCP allowed UI addons.

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#35 - 2011-12-26 17:49:04 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:


Hmm... and, considering Dust will not take effect in wormhole space, how would things work there? Cities and all that don't really make sense in frontier space.


Cities will be setup as it is in empire, low sec or 0.0.

But cities can only be wiped out by sub caps and capital ships in teh whs, since Dust wont work in whs and incursions dont happen there, leaving it up to the Eve players to do all the work.

Industrial networks can provide ice for wh towers from ice planets, thus eliminating the need for wh players to bring stuff into the wh. They would still have to go sell their lewt in empire, or they can use the cities to turn their wh into a new drone region, where they recycle and use everything. They could even start constructing super caps in whs.

Cities would allow wh alliances to entrench themselves even more in a wh, making for more good fights in order to serve eviction notices.

So it makes perfect sense.


I find myself intrigued. :-)

One last thought (for now...)

The transition to getting something like this set up from current would be expected to take how long and at what expense? People that rely on PI for their own pos fuel... would there be a significant period of fime of clenched bowels trying to get things running again before the pos goes belly up?

If the answer is to stock up prior, you're creating an artificial spike in prices as people take advantage of the transition.

(Note: not being critical at all, just trying to think of side-effects that may not be thought of initially.)

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Endovior
PFU Consortium
#36 - 2011-12-26 20:58:08 UTC
Looking good! One nitpick... "Trail" accounts, in reference to SPI Banking. Not only a typo, but also a bad idea; I would suggest that it makes abundant sense to simply make loaned money one of many features that Trial Accounts are simply not eligible to engage in.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#37 - 2011-12-26 22:58:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Ingvar Angst wrote:


I find myself intrigued. :-)

One last thought (for now...)

The transition to getting something like this set up from current would be expected to take how long and at what expense? People that rely on PI for their own pos fuel... would there be a significant period of fime of clenched bowels trying to get things running again before the pos goes belly up?

If the answer is to stock up prior, you're creating an artificial spike in prices as people take advantage of the transition.

(Note: not being critical at all, just trying to think of side-effects that may not be thought of initially.)


A single network, from 500 settlers to 1000 should take you about a week or two, at an average growth rate of 21%. It should reach it's capacity limit (the amount of vacancies from all your buildings) within 1 - 2 months, then it starts generating homeless and you need to put them to use, or get rid of them, which costs you isk.

So if that single network was part of a city with ice mines, you wouldn't have to export homeless, feed them into buildings that consume them and save you the isk cost automatically. Depending on the amount of civilian networks providing settlers to the city mechanism, you'r looking at about 2-4 months before a city would hit its capacity. That or you can train ship crews.

Setting up single networksof the civilian, industrial or military network types should set you back around less than 8 mil, with a 1-3 mil operation expense per month.

Social /Establishment networks will set you back many hundreds of millions, more expensive operational costs per month.

A City I was thinking should be in the 1 bil isk to register area, with monthly maintenance costs/bills payable or else. 12 blocks of fuel per day, plus any costs to sustain the population and building services outside of that.

Will there be a stockpiling of POS fuels? Maybe.

Will the prices spike? Maybe.

There will always be people looking to exploit the market made by new ships.technologies/game play styles.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Samuella II
The Destined
#38 - 2011-12-27 07:30:14 UTC
+1
Kemo Sabi
Stark Fujikawa
#39 - 2011-12-27 13:29:47 UTC
Give that man a Bells!

+1 Internets
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#40 - 2011-12-27 14:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ingvar Angst
The homeless thing... I don't like that. Too much extra to worry about when all I want is to make fuels.

Now... if they can be converted into biomass or something... A billion isk for a city? People are running 20+ planets... that's insane. As nicely thought out as the idea is, it's really too much of a pain in the ass imo. PI is already a bit of a chore, but not so much that it's not worth doing. I'd fear something this elaborate blowing up to the point where you log in and spend hours dealing with all this stuff only to find you never had time to undock before bed. This is almost worthy of a game itself, not a side activity.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.