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Stop high sec ganking/pve only option

First post
Author
Bubba Freedom
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-09-03 03:54:25 UTC
I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. Came back to game a couple months ago and have lost 6 billion isk to high sec idiots/ null sec trolls. If a new player can't do anything in either place, then even going free to play is not going to stop the bleed of players. The community is not policing itself as originally intended. If we're going to go free to play, why not add a pve only option finally. Safety could be expanded to make it so that players with a green safety can't be locked by other players not at war with them. This might be one of the best things if implemented to bring players back. Could make it a subscription only option and make it even more worth it to subscribe to the game.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2016-09-03 05:18:31 UTC
Quote:

I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked.


then you don't understand eve


go back and read the FAQ no where in eve is safe
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2016-09-03 05:25:17 UTC
As mostly an explorer and industrialist: no. Destruction and lack of safety are integral to the game. If that means we lose a player here and there, so be it.
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-09-03 05:55:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens
The community does police itself.

You are expected to be able to defend yourself, or be savvy enough to get away. If this is not acceptable the options are to have friends or alies, possibly hirelings to help save you, or find an alternate less dangerous profession.

If you are mining you can buy protection in the form of not being attacked by certain groups. Now you mention the f2p, that is to bring more people in to witness and take part in mindless violence, or get savvy enough to enjoy the escape and the chase. It is the taste of real risk that sells the game. The free to play aspect is really just an extended trial to help people understand this.

Don't risk more than you can afford to lose. Get Boned, reclone. Learn from mistakes and possibly observe and learn from others mistakes. Unlike other games, the playing of the eve and interacting with thousands of people is the endgame, the whole point, the reason it is a single shard world.

Eve is truely the only MMORPG on the market today, because your losses can affect hundreds or thousands of other people. Just by them seeing you fail miserably, poach things from your wreck, buy the loot poached, and avoid having such things happen to them. They learned, or did not, and escaped the same fate because of what the baddies were doing it to you at the time they were passing through. You should feel special and know that as a paying customer in any level of security space:

YOU are content. YOU are the game.
YOU will convince people to be paying customers so they can do and be the same.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.

Black Pedro
Mine.
#5 - 2016-09-03 05:58:45 UTC
Bubba Freedom wrote:
I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked.
And I see no reason why any player should be immune from the other players and/or be able to isolate themselves from the sandbox given that Eve Online is a full-time, PvP sandbox game.

This seems like a case of a customer ordering something they don't like at a restaurant, rather than a problem with the restaurant itself. If you don't want to be shot at, then don't play a full-time, single universe spaceship shooting game. If you do like this concept and the benefits of being part of a living, breathing, interconnected universe but just are having problems surviving alongside the other players, then ask for help in the New Player's or Missioning section these forums. You'll find it more fruitful than proposing game-breaking "solutions" that run counter to the core design of the game and that re-write the rules of the game in your favour.
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#6 - 2016-09-03 06:02:47 UTC
Bubba Freedom wrote:
The community is not policing itself as intended.
Doesn't that mean this is your fault?



Do you know I never actually get tired of these threads?
Bubba Freedom
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-09-03 06:06:00 UTC
I actually have a good understanding of the game. The fact is we're losing more players than we're keeping. Yes pvp is an integral part of the game. Shooting someone just because you can in high security space is not. That is being no more and no less than someone that does not look out for the welfare of the community as a whole. Quite frankly if you are a player doing so, you should be ashamed. What I'm suggesting by and large would change nothing for what the gameplay mechanics are supposed to be. More of closing the loopholes in the current system that the likes of code and archetype exploit to try to purge the game of new blood. I did not say safety out low and null, nor did I suggest making it so players couldn't be attacked during war. We are going fop, it's time for open minds and a serious discussion of the mechanics that have led to the current issues. If a player can't mission or mine in high security, eventually we all suffer, not just that player. Also if the community was policing itself, Code would not exist. Before you shoot an idea down, you should come to the table with another solution that addresses the issue at hand.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#8 - 2016-09-03 06:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Bubba Freedom wrote:
I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. Came back to game a couple months ago and have lost 6 billion isk to high sec idiots/ null sec trolls.



usually don't estalk....but what are your ealier losses as all I see on current is you dying a lot in delve. In an npc corp so....if you are ninjya ratting/mining thats on you for starters. Ninjya pve has a downside....you can die sometimes. Or if a renter crew....thats on you as wel. Rent does not cover system security, thats on your crew.

And you may want to try something harder to find for 0.0 work. Todays eve lesson....how to be hard to probe. Great for ninjya ratting, or actually being in a corp and someone sneaks into system not blue.


Get your sig radius to sig strength ratio as low as you can. Lower 1's prober has to be max skill, running virtues, running sisters gear in maxed CO. This is not dead common. Not doing this you may be the 100% lock they never get.

Example: my tengu, hg talons, dissolution seq sub (at 5). sensor skill at 5, sebo II (eecm) and/or sig amp II. Gets you real low.


2nd tip is learn to play with wh's. Some don't look for these. So they hump gates. And its the wh you enter and leave through to avoid bubbles that may be up.


edit: saw miner rant.....stop mining, run missions. It pays better anyway.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#9 - 2016-09-03 06:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
You don't seem to have presented any problem that you are trying to solve other than you are upset over being outplayed and losing 6 Billion ISK to other players.

New players don't fly 6B ISK ships. They are rarely, if ever, ganked while missioning because there is no profit it in. Which is a shame really as CCP says that those that get ganked or otherwise explode are more likely to stay playing the game. Rich and careless veterans like yourself do get ganked from time-to-time however, as intended by the game designers. Suicide ganking is not a loophole. It is not a mistake, oversight or unintended side-effect CCP has left in the game these 13 years. It is deliberate and intended criminal gameplay put in the game so that nowhere is 100% safe. CCP thinks this makes for a more interesting and engaging game and I happen to agree with them.

Highsec has never been safer. If you are just complaining that it isn't 'safesec' instead of 'high security space', well I don't know what to tell you. There are many issues with allowing veterans a perfectly safe space to grind resources yet influence the greater game and economy that prevent your "idea" from ever being implemented. Your 'safesec' would have to have next to no income generating potential to not impact in the rest of the game, and thus would sit empty and unused by everyone.

In any case, this carebear moaning for safety has gone on since the servers went live so many years ago making this thread completely and utterly redundant. If you really do understand the game but don't like the core central concept, I respectfully suggest your time might be better spent finding something else to play rather than lobbying for such an ancient game to completely reinvent itself to suit your whims.
Bubba Freedom
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-09-03 06:37:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubba Freedom
Zan Shiro wrote:
Bubba Freedom wrote:
I see no reason why a player that wants to run missions in high should be ganked. Came back to game a couple months ago and have lost 6 billion isk to high sec idiots/ null sec trolls.



usually don't estalk....but what are your ealier losses as all I see on current is you dying a lot in delve. In an npc corp so....if you are ninjya ratting/mining thats on you for starters. Ninjya pve has a downside....you can die sometimes. Or if a renter crew....thats on you as wel. Rent does not cover system security, thats on your crew.

And you may want to try something harder to find for 0.0 work. Todays eve lesson....how to be hard to probe. Great for ninjya ratting, or actually being in a corp and someone sneaks into system not blue.


Get your sig radius to sig strength ratio as low as you can. Lower 1's prober has to be max skill, running virtues, running sisters gear in maxed CO. This is not dead common. Not doing this you may be the 100% lock they never get.

Example: my tengu, hg talons, dissolution seq sub (at 5). sensor skill at 5, sebo II (eecm) and/or sig amp II. Gets you real low.


2nd tip is learn to play with wh's. Some don't look for these. So they hump gates. And its the wh you enter and leave through to avoid bubbles that may be up.


edit: saw miner rant.....stop mining, run missions. It pays better anyway.
you're looking at a two day old character that replaced one that couldn't't get out of pita due to station camps. Hence the reason for this. It really is time to quit saying it's the player's fault, and look at the culture. Should there be pvp in delve, yes, is there really a reason to shoot an NPC corp player out there looking for somewhere to mission/rat/mine and try to be a part of the content, no. I had nothing to do with any corp, and if people would have left me be, which by the way when I started playing was what most corps did, I would have done what most NBC players did back then, a little mining, missioning, and production to keep the players that wanted to shoot at each other in rounds and missiles to do it with.
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#11 - 2016-09-03 06:38:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sitting Bull Lakota
Bubba Freedom wrote:
I actually have a good understanding of the game. The fact is we're losing more players than we're keeping. Yes pvp is an integral part of the game. Shooting someone just because you can in high security space is not. That is being no more and no less than someone that does not look out for the welfare of the community as a whole. Quite frankly if you are a player doing so, you should be ashamed. What I'm suggesting by and large would change nothing for what the gameplay mechanics are supposed to be. More of closing the loopholes in the current system that the likes of code and archetype exploit to try to purge the game of new blood. I did not say safety out low and null, nor did I suggest making it so players couldn't be attacked during war. We are going fop, it's time for open minds and a serious discussion of the mechanics that have led to the current issues. If a player can't mission or mine in high security, eventually we all suffer, not just that player. Also if the community was policing itself, Code would not exist. Before you shoot an idea down, you should come to the table with another solution that addresses the issue at hand.

Yes, let's talk about the welfare of the community.
What you claim to want to do is what I define as carebearing. You want to run your missions, your incursions, your DED sites, your mining, etc. in peace without any concern for pvp. What you fail to acknowledge is that you, Mr. Carebear, in your 6 billion isk worth of pve vehicles have taken these resource and isk faucets in highsec, cranked them to full on and ripped the knobs off. You are pouring billions upon billions of isk into an already engorged economy. Your mtus, your salvagers, your strip miners are pouring tons upon tons of resources into an already glutted market.
Do you know what this does to the value of those isk and resources? Do you? It destroys it. Now you need to do even more missioning, even more mining, to reach your isk goal.

That goal? Plex. It always is. You just want to be left alone so you can "play for free." In your quest to dodge the subscription fee, you wreak terrible havoc on the economy.
New players? God help them, their lvl 1 and 2 missions, their ventures, and their brief soujorns into exploration in Magnates and the like can barely yield the isk and resources they need to produce to make any kind of profit from pve. When you, Mr. Carebear, complain of how bad the "bullies" are, you completely overlook the much more significamt damage that you are doing to the new player experience.
What I hear in New Player Help is the frustration of quickly burning out new players desparate to try to find some kind of means of making isk so they can take part in the rest of the game. The rest of the game that you claim to believe is so integral to the health of EvE.
They must work harder and harder to make a pittance while you and your ilk, Mr. Carebear, keep chasing the value of every pve reward further and further into the ground.

No, Mr. Carebear, you should be ashamed. The damage you do to the community is appalling. The worst part? Your victims are the new players you claim are being chased away.
Bubba Freedom
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-09-03 06:47:53 UTC
That doesn't't excuse the fact that carebears are needed to keep this game running. Instead of insulting the ones that are actually carebears, keep in mind, while I didn't do much damage 20 vs 1, I did shoot back. So before you call someone a carebears consider the situation. That was unwinnable. Probably not really avoidable considering I did not have a good gate runner, and not what I'm talking about. I'm addressing the general culture of forget the new guy, he'll learn or quit. They are quitting in droves, along with older players that can't see the point anymore. The carebears you referred to supply the cheap loot market you use to get metal gear to kill them, so is it so hard to give them a break/tolerate them for their usefulness to the game as a whole?
Bubba Freedom
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-09-03 06:53:32 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
Bubba Freedom wrote:
I actually have a good understanding of the game. The fact is we're losing more players than we're keeping. Yes pvp is an integral part of the game. Shooting someone just because you can in high security space is not. That is being no more and no less than someone that does not look out for the welfare of the community as a whole. Quite frankly if you are a player doing so, you should be ashamed. What I'm suggesting by and large would change nothing for what the gameplay mechanics are supposed to be. More of closing the loopholes in the current system that the likes of code and archetype exploit to try to purge the game of new blood. I did not say safety out low and null, nor did I suggest making it so players couldn't be attacked during war. We are going fop, it's time for open minds and a serious discussion of the mechanics that have led to the current issues. If a player can't mission or mine in high security, eventually we all suffer, not just that player. Also if the community was policing itself, Code would not exist. Before you shoot an idea down, you should come to the table with another solution that addresses the issue at hand.

Yes, let's talk about the welfare of the community.
What you claim to want to do is what I define as carebearing. You want to run your missions, your incursions, your DED sites, your mining, etc. in peace without any concern for pvp. What you fail to acknowledge is that you, Mr. Carebear, in your 6 billion isk worth of pve vehicles have taken these resource and isk faucets in highsec, cranked them to full on and ripped the knobs off. You are pouring billions upon billions of isk into an already engorged economy. Your mtus, your salvagers, your strip miners are pouring tons upon tons of resources into an already glutted market.
Do you know what this does to the value of those isk and resources? Do you? It destroys it. Now you need to do even more missioning, even more mining, to reach your isk goal.

That goal? Plex. It always is. You just want to be left alone so you can "play for free." In your quest to dodge the subscription fee, you wreak terrible havoc on the economy.
New players? God help them, their lvl 1 and 2 missions, their ventures, and their brief soujorns into exploration in Magnates and the like can barely yield the isk and resources they need to produce to make any kind of profit from pve. When you, Mr. Carebear, complain of how bad the "bullies" are, you completely overlook the much more significamt damage that you are doing to the new player experience.
What I hear in New Player Help is the frustration of quickly burning out new players desparate to try to find some kind of means of making isk so they can take part in the rest of the game. The rest of the game that you claim to believe is so integral to the health of EvE.
They must work harder and harder to make a pittance while you and your ilk, Mr. Carebear, keep chasing the value of every pve reward further and further into the ground.

No, Mr. Carebear, you should be ashamed. The damage you do to the community is appalling. The worst part? Your victims are the new players you claim are being chased away.


Actually I'm a cash player, and minus rolling into low/null looking for a home, I've spent hours with new players getting them ships, running missions with them, and babysitting their ventures in high sec so they can mine in relative peace. So you really can't say I'm damaging the community by suggesting that there be a way to free up more players to do that kind of mentoring. No matter yow much you want to troll me, can you say you're doing that much good? Or do you sit in null and wait for a new player to want to try it and kill them? Which of us does more damage to the community there?
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#14 - 2016-09-03 07:47:30 UTC
Sorry, but you are not a new player and you don't speak for the new players if you lose 6bil ISK in Highsec.
Bubba Freedom
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-09-03 07:57:47 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Sorry, but you are not a new player and you don't speak for the new players if you lose 6bil ISK in Highsec.

Actually I can as a valid general high sec player as well as a person trying to improve game play for all high sec, there needs to be a serious discussion about this instead of trolling someone bringing up a legitimate point. No the account Isn't new by a long shot, however having spent quite a bit of time since coming back with new players that have been nearly killed out of game within 48 hours of starting, I do have grounds to bring this up. As I said before, if you can't stay on topic or just want to troll, please bug off. It tends to get threads like this locked, and this would be a good chance to use forums for what we should be using them for. Average player age last I checked was about 25 years old, let's have a mature conversation here.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#16 - 2016-09-03 08:15:57 UTC
Bubba Freedom wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Sorry, but you are not a new player and you don't speak for the new players if you lose 6bil ISK in Highsec.

Actually I can as a valid general high sec player as well as a person trying to improve game play for all high sec, there needs to be a serious discussion about this instead of trolling someone bringing up a legitimate point. No the account Isn't new by a long shot, however having spent quite a bit of time since coming back with new players that have been nearly killed out of game within 48 hours of starting, I do have grounds to bring this up. As I said before, if you can't stay on topic or just want to troll, please bug off. It tends to get threads like this locked, and this would be a good chance to use forums for what we should be using them for. Average player age last I checked was about 25 years old, let's have a mature conversation here.

Ok, then let's have this discussion.

CCP actually looked into this and they analysed the reason new players left for ~80'000 players. They assumed like you that ganking drives players away, but what they found was the complete contrary. The more isolated a player was the more likely he was to quit the game and never sub. Players who where on the receiving end of non consensual PvP where the most likely to stick with the game.

Here is the video where CCP Rise explains everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y

So your idea would actually achieve the complete opposite of what you try to do and it is not really hard to understand why. Most new players come to EVE because they read the fantastic stories about EVE and hope to one day be part of it. They don't come to EVE to mine endlessly or to grind the same mission in complete safety without consequences. By isolating them from the sandbox you make the game more boring from them.

If you want to help with player retention then make sure you help them to get out there to null/low/wh and don't let them mine or run missions in Highsec.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#17 - 2016-09-03 08:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bubba Freedom wrote:
I actually have a good understanding of the game.
Obviously not, you appear to think that hisec is the equivalent of a PvE server; it isn't.

Quote:
The fact is we're losing more players than we're keeping. Yes pvp is an integral part of the game. Shooting someone just because you can in high security space is not. That is being no more and no less than someone that does not look out for the welfare of the community as a whole. Quite frankly if you are a player doing so, you should be ashamed.
Shooting someone because you can is PvP, hisec is not exempt from it; if anybody should be ashamed it's people like you that fail to understand that.

Quote:
What I'm suggesting by and large would change nothing for what the gameplay mechanics are supposed to be. More of closing the loopholes in the current system that the likes of code and archetype exploit to try to purge the game of new blood.
No, what you're suggesting is that CCP change the mechanics to what you think they should be, by removing the things that you see as exploits and loopholes.

Quote:
I did not say safety out low and null, nor did I suggest making it so players couldn't be attacked during war. We are going fop, it's time for open minds and a serious discussion of the mechanics that have led to the current issues. If a player can't mission or mine in high security, eventually we all suffer, not just that player. Also if the community was policing itself, Code would not exist. Before you shoot an idea down, you should come to the table with another solution that addresses the issue at hand.
A player can mine and mission without interference in hisec, if they put some effort into being responsible for their own safety; despite appearances CCP are not in the business of doing it for them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Bubba Freedom
Doomheim
#18 - 2016-09-03 08:28:26 UTC
That "study" you refer too is already generally agreed by most of the player base to be toilet water, not to mention you can't get a new player out to null and have them be productive. We are killing off our player base either way you look at it. Ganking in high sec is pretty much the worst you can do. When you complain about markets and lack of hauling, or sell prices being too high and buys too low, that's all because you or your friends killed off the last few shipments of that item someone was hauling. You and the rest of your corp/alliance are one of the main reasons for the issues we have right now. Your lack of control and common sense is duly noted as low. The fact is I'm not being counter productive as the option would still exist by expanding the safety function. Heck for all I care make it red or green, put a 24 hour timer on going red and make it so you can shoot all red in high sec. But then again that puts code at a little disadvantage doesn't it because they can't hide behind concord till they find an easy kill.
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#19 - 2016-09-03 08:31:02 UTC
Bubba Freedom wrote:
No matter yow much you want to troll me, can you say you're doing that much good? Or do you sit in null and wait for a new player to want to try it and kill them? Which of us does more damage to the community there?

Troll you, sir? Perish the thought!
There is not but honest and well intentioned shiptoasting in threads of this nature! This is indeed, a rarely discussed topic, you see.

To your question, doesn't flying a protective ship for a new player as they mine peacefully in a venture in fact cause them to take a damaged view of the greater game? Is it not true that the greatest ability of the capsuleer is his fortitude and indomitable nature? Does not the the bear who cares cause damage to the fragile and impressionable mind of the newbro when he teaches him to fear risk rather than take risk?

Here or there or anywhere it is you, Mr. Bear.
Your love of isk.
Your detest of risk.
Your maddening desire to whisk away from the jaws of calamity
The newbro whom you
Have bade bid adieu
To those happy few stories depicting the "rest of EvE"
You've turned his gaze from wars and large fleets
To ores and spreadsheets
And caused him at length to wonder as he tore rocks asunder
What about this game looked fun in the first place?
Bubba Freedom
Doomheim
#20 - 2016-09-03 08:39:39 UTC
First off, not a carebears, last few losses have been running out in null and getting blooped. I don't care how much isk I have as long as I can replace the fit II'm.flying twice over, and have been known to hand fitted ships to new players. The problem is they usually Don't even get space dust on them lately before a troll corp, read "pirate", if it soothes your ego blips them out of game again. So not only are your arguments so far without merit, but quite opposite of how I play. I left the last corp that tried to get me to use spreadsheets.
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