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[Suggestion (With F2P Alpha Clones Coming In)] FW Overhaul
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THcEount
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-09-01 14:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: THcEount
With the Alpha Clones announced, I feel it would be a great time to do a faction warfare overhaul. Faction Warfare is pretty good overhaul but could use with some tweaks. Mostly to increase chances of combat instead of farming. It is Faction WARFARE after all.

I do have some suggestions to mix things up a bit (Note: I may a bit biased).

Suggestion 1: Warp Disruption Effect on Site Beacon. This would be the beacon for capture and not the entry beacon. This beacon already has a 30km range for LP payout, so having this effect at 30km seems fine as well. This will block people from just warping off risk free with warp stabs. I would MUCH rather them try to burn first, at least gives some risk. Faction NPC gains a point. Simple, but effective.

Suggestion 2: LP payouts lower the further from the beacon. For this, as with the WDE above, would be the site beacon. In action, it would give you lower payouts in zones. Benefits would be as follows:
- 00-05 KM: 100% Payout
- 06-10 KM: 75% Payout
- 11-20 KM: 50% Payout
- 21-30 KM: 25% Payout
In addition, the site beacon should be moved further away from the entry beacon, adding more tactical choices in fleets. Let's say 25 - 30 KM in front of the entry beacon.

Suggestion 3: With Citadels released, the station lockout is less of a penalty to losing the system. I would love to see something done in accordance to this. My first thought is to not allow tethering unless a fw entity owns the citadel. In the case of a fw entity owning the citadel, works as normal and can tether, but can be destroyed through normal methods for LP payout. I would like to suggest a ban for citadels to be dropped on ihub grids.

Suggestion 4: One of the most boring things in fw is defensive plexing. I say remove it and replace it with sized NPC sites called "resistance sites". Resistance sites would be gated based on ship size (similar to normal plexes) and would have a set number of npcs respected toward the size of ship to destroy. NPCs would simply be the enemy faction and would need to be cleared to advance the defensive point. these would be on the probe scanner similar to offensive plexes.

More suggestions to come, and edits as i think / am convinced that a suggestion is bad.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2016-09-01 15:42:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
What I would change is let ppl join fw no matter what Corp they were in. To avoid ppl in the same Corp/Alliance from being against each other have corps/alliances support one faction but only members who join fw are actual participants.

Remove allies and make fw a full on FFA between the four factions.


I could care less about farmers or your inability to catch them also against the idea that brawlers should get better payouts than kiters

And you have always been able to put up a pos in faction warfare so citadels have not changed much. You should be fully encouraged to put citadels in enemy space if you don't like it destroy it

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2016-09-01 17:25:18 UTC
I agree with letting anyone join. That and a removal of defensive plexing should be enough of a start.

Perhaps give the rat an infinite strength warp disruptor, instead of a 30km bubble?

I disagree with nerfing payout based n range, all you'd get is the kiters burning in with 30 seconds to go to grab full payout.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2016-09-01 18:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
i like the rat disruptor idea better than the bubble at leas that way people would still need to fit points in fw sites

with the removal of def plexing how would you have systems level up?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2016-09-01 18:36:17 UTC
That's a fair point. Maybe just add hostile NPCs instead of friendly ones, to get rid of the unfit frigate farmers?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2016-09-01 18:41:14 UTC
why not we could use local pirate npcs that way you are "securing" the system further by going to those defensive plexes currently i don't see why sitting by a plex helps secure the system particularly if a member of the npc navy is there already

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#7 - 2016-09-01 20:03:10 UTC
Quote:
(Note: I may a bit biased)


Then come back when you're not, because not one of your suggestions fixes any of the issues that exist with FW at present. Each one is exploitable and one destroys the balance of the only part of FW that actually works well; plex combat.

Quote:
That and a removal of defensive plexing should be enough of a start.


Quote:
with the removal of def plexing how would you have systems level up?


I'm going to assume neither of you have any idea what you're talking about. As defensive plexing has absolutely zero relevence to system upgrades, and its removal would make system sieges a nightmare to defend against.

Quote:
What I would change is let ppl join fw no matter what Corp they were in. To avoid ppl in the same Corp/Alliance from being against each other have corps/alliances support one faction but only members who join fw are actual participants.


Why? So you can hop in and out of whatever militia you feel like to rustle up some LP at your leisure without the headache of switching corps constantly and worrying about your standings? To shoot people in high-sec without CONCORD getting involved?

No thanks.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2016-09-01 20:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
May Arethusa wrote:
Quote:
(Note: I may a bit biased)


Then come back when you're not, because not one of your suggestions fixes any of the issues that exist with FW at present. Each one is exploitable and one destroys the balance of the only part of FW that actually works well; plex combat.

Quote:
That and a removal of defensive plexing should be enough of a start.


Quote:
with the removal of def plexing how would you have systems level up?


I'm going to assume neither of you have any idea what you're talking about. As defensive plexing has absolutely zero relevence to system upgrades, and its removal would make system sieges a nightmare to defend against.

Quote:
What I would change is let ppl join fw no matter what Corp they were in. To avoid ppl in the same Corp/Alliance from being against each other have corps/alliances support one faction but only members who join fw are actual participants.


Why? So you can hop in and out of whatever militia you feel like to rustle up some LP at your leisure without the headache of switching corps constantly and worrying about your standings? To shoot people in high-sec without CONCORD getting involved?

No thanks.



1 by level up i didn't mean system levels i meant raising the contested bar. something you could of picked up on by the context of my next post talking about securing
2

you would not be able to militia hop any easier than now and alliances/corps would still need standings

like i said an alliance/corp would need to support a militia then members of that alliance/corp could join that militia so just like now if your standings are two low on the corp/alliance level you can't support and your members can't join

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
THcEount
Doomheim
#9 - 2016-09-01 23:47:49 UTC
Okay so based on the first set of feedback some adjustments \o/.

Suggestion 1: I do like the idea of the npc having a warp field instead of a bubble like effect. Thanks for the feedback Danika! I'll update the OP to reflect.

Suggestion 2: Lugh, Kiters would actually be in a good place. Since I suggested moving the beacon away from the entry warp in, kiters should be in their optimal from the highest payout (20 - 30 km from warp in). The idea was also to keep people from afk / semi-afk'ing in the plex and to pay attention to being inside. From feedback however, this idea has been proven bad imo, So I have removed it.

Suggestion 3: You brought up a good point Lugh about the POSes. The thing with the citadels is they are not restricted to a specific area. I have adjusted the OP to only show the ban from iHub grids, as I still think that should be a no go.

Based on feedback, I have also added a new Suggestion!

Suggestion 4: One of the most boring things in fw is defensive plexing. I say remove it and replace it with sized NPC sites called "resistance sites". Resistance sites would be gated based on ship size (similar to normal plexes) and would have a set number of npcs respected toward the size of ship to destroy. NPCs would simply be the enemy faction and would need to be cleared to advance the defensive point. these would be on the probe scanner similar to offensive plexes.
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#10 - 2016-09-02 05:09:24 UTC
Quote:
1 by level up i didn't mean system levels i meant raising the contested bar. something you could of picked up on by the context of my next post talking about securing


My bad, I'll be sure to cross-reference your last 10 posts when you reply next, and consult my tea leaves to ascertain the true meaning of your words. You were wrong, there's no shame in it, don't try and pin your **** up on me. There is shame in being corrected, and still getting it wrong though. Defensive plexing lowers contestation, it doesn't raise it. Now through a seance and my crystal ball, I'm able to discern that you probably meant lowering, but your continued failure to explain basic functions of the system you're attempting to balance hardly fills me with confidence. You wouldn't ask a plumber to perform brain surgery, would you?

Quote:
2

you would not be able to militia hop any easier than now and alliances/corps would still need standings

like i said an alliance/corp would need to support a militia then members of that alliance/corp could join that militia so just like now if your standings are two low on the corp/alliance level you can't support and your members can't join


Except that it has been known for a very, very long time that individual standing issues are entirely negated by corp/alliance standing. Keeping your corp/alliance above 0.0 standing with a faction is easy, especially since the lowest any individual can sink is -10. A handful of pilots can tank their standings easily without it having an impact on their corp's ability to join a militia. It takes serious neglect for this to happen.

So where does this leave us?

Under your proposed system, an alliance or corporation can have good standings with every faction, and the CEO/Executor can simply swap their supported faction following the same time restrictions currently in operation, based upon who has the highest tier. By alternating smartly between militias, you can cancel out any negative impact on your standing and effectively plex without personal consequence. Any non-FW pilot in said corp/alliance running missions ensures faction standings never drop low enough to prevent you from joining.

Was that clear enough for you?

Quote:
Suggestion 1: I do like the idea of the npc having a warp field instead of a bubble like effect. Thanks for the feedback Danika! I'll update the OP to reflect.


The last time CCP tinkered with plex rats, they got told off for interfering with solo PVP and promptly revised the changes so this would no longer happen. Now imagine this; you're halfway through a fight, things are going bad and you start to pull range. Rat spawns, instantly points you and even though you're out of range of your enemy you can't escape because the rat has you pointed. While attempting to fix this, your enemy regains point and finishes you off.

Quote:
Suggestion 3: You brought up a good point Lugh about the POSes. The thing with the citadels is they are not restricted to a specific area. I have adjusted the OP to only show the ban from iHub grids, as I still think that should be a no go.


Already suggested when Citadels were announced. In typical CCP fashion, it was never answered (to my knowledge.)

Quote:
Suggestion 4: One of the most boring things in fw is defensive plexing. I say remove it and replace it with sized NPC sites called "resistance sites". Resistance sites would be gated based on ship size (similar to normal plexes) and would have a set number of npcs respected toward the size of ship to destroy. NPCs would simply be the enemy faction and would need to be cleared to advance the defensive point. these would be on the probe scanner similar to offensive plexes.


Great. So now all I have to do is volley a handful of rats off field to negate 10-30 minutes of time spent plexing. Balance achieved. This is before you take into consideration people crying because of EWar imbalance between racial npcs.