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Matari: Where are we now and where are we headed?

Author
Matar Ronin
#321 - 2016-09-15 16:31:05 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Eve Talaminada wrote:
First and foremost, the very specific nature of Minmatar technology, seemingly put together half-hazardly and yet functioning (and often mocked by the other races), is a sign that things have not been done the way the other races have done it, if anything else.


So-- sort of a question for everyone, here--

I had an idea that Matari technology was really pragmatic, out of necessity-- that it's stuff that had to be thrown together when a bunch of formerly-enslaved engineers got together with some military leaders and went, "Okay-- we're loose, we've got funding from the Federation, but we need a fleet, like, yesterday. It's going to be really outnumbered and outgunned until we can build a LOT more of it, so-- hit and run as a core doctrine? Right! Let's do this."

... without, maybe, a whole lot of attention to pre-DoD stuff? I mean, the ancient Matari kind of didn't "do" warfare, if ... I'm hearing right?

How badly wrong am I?
I think your basic premise is not too wrong pilot Jenneth. However I would add that the Caldari State was also a patron of the young newly established Minmatar Republic, something due to current alignments some people forget. I never will.

Matari ship design in the rebellion and young Republic era had never had the luxury to include elements that were not absolutely essential to complete the design goal of the vessel, both funds and materials to construct the fleets had to be stretched to their limits and then a little further.

Early clashes with slavery cult fleets in the rebellion demonstrated that they were not invulnerable and that Matari pilots and crews willing to risk using faster deadly ships that used a bare bones design could find success in combat operations. That was the priority being able to prevail in the fight, as combat pilots we all know the planners/ strategists of warfare concern themselves with kill/death ratios. Minmatar vessels early on had an emphasis on being able to rack up the highest number of kills before their eventual death. They were operating in desperate times, but their cause was just, and countless pilots and crews made the ultimate sacrifice in combat to help establish and then stabilize the young Republic.

I would not say hit and run was the core doctrine, it seems looking back it was more hit fast and hard before the bigger more powerful fleets can effectively respond and crush us. Each pilot knew that his/her ship was harder for the rebellion or the young Republic to replace then their counterparts across the field of combat so they were intent upon punching above their weight to compensate for that fact. They knew that they needed to inflict losses greater than their numbers on the field in every engagement to have the possibility of success. In a slow grinding war of attrition they could not hope for victory, the resource base of the slavery cult empire given enough time to regain it's balance would have overwhelmed them.

Juxtapose the designs of the Elder Fleet that was sent to emancipate planets and hold systems while taking on the fleets of the slavery cultists head on. Different goals from those earlier designs but just as effective tactically. Had it not been for a secret weapon, that had not been seen prior to it's use against the Elder fleet the maps of empire space might be very very different today.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Felise Selunix
Keyholder Investment Group
#322 - 2016-09-15 16:41:05 UTC
Eve Talaminada wrote:
Felise Selunix wrote:

Aside from the fact that you're make an definitive assertion--'There were no taxes within or between tribes before the Amarr came'--while not providing definitive proof, I personally think that the point is moot.


No, *you* are making a definitive assertion that there must have been taxes without providing definitve proof. It goes both ways until written proof of a Pre-Day of Darkness Tax code can be discovered. I believe you will never find any.

With our Minarchist Space, we offer a path to the Day of Light.
I only see compromising and meekness in the current Minmatar Republic.


But did I? Let's have some fun reviewing statements! Come with me to the land of just a couple of days prior:

Felise Selunix wrote:
But a tax is a fee for services rendered. Trades, goods, and services are often done in trade centers (as was the case before the DoD as well) or at specific locations. Those locations have to be supplied and maintained; they have to be defended; trade disputes need to be settled. All of those services need to be recompensed. That's just a basic tenant of any economics in society, including ours, both pre and post enslavement. Heck, taxes have existed within tribes clans, sometimes in the form of voluntary donations, sometimes not. Both clans and tribes have administration and those have to administrations have to be supported.


Here, I pointed out a basic relationship between taxes and trade found in many locations (and currently throughout the Republic). No definitive statement about taxation pre-DoD so far. Though there was a definitive statement about services being recompensed upon which we both agree. Hmm...well how about the next paragraph?

Felise Selunix wrote:
I understand that this pastoral nomadic ideal of our past is very popular among traditionalists, but it's just not an accurate picture. By the time the storm hit, Matar and many other planets were urbanized to some level and we were building spaceships and jumping through gates. Those are industrial endeavors that call for basic economic and governance structures...like taxes.


Once again, no definitive statements about taxation prior to DoD, unless you consider 'economic and governance structures...like taxes' definitive which is...well let's just say that I hope you're not doing a lot of contract work with any Vherokior or Krusal anytime soon.

No, what I did is suggest a plausible scenario on a past event in order to refute your definitive assertion here:

Eve Talaminada wrote:
There were no taxes within or between tribes before the Amarr came, with their imperialistic ways.


And that completes that journey.

At the end of the day though, you haven't convinced me, or anyone else here it seems, that these changes are all that important. You're overall assertion is that we Matari are worse off than we were back then because we don't do things that way that we used to do. I would counter that we're stronger for having survived and grown beyond our enslavement to decide just how we wanted to change in light of it, while keeping our core traditions of clan and tribe intact.

You'll disagree of course, and that's fine. I bear you no ill-will and if waiting for your day of light makes you happy, have at it. Just expect to see a lot of shrugs until you can deliver something.
Felise Selunix
Keyholder Investment Group
#323 - 2016-09-15 17:32:51 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
In response to the Original Statement by Ms. Selunix.

Just a few on thoughts on strengthening the Republic economy:

If Gallentean style unregulated free-market capitalism is continued in the Republic then a serious look at the percentage of total GDP of the finance sector (both by foreign and domestic banks) should be paid. I would say if it's anything above 3-4% of total GDP then the Republic is facing a financialization of its economy and a shift from the traditional roles of finance and banking from acting as the intermediaries of citizen savings to provide capital to business and industry; to more purely speculative practices and trading which only enriches those already involved in the financial sector while reducing productive lending and increasing debt -- the backbone of finance -- to the detriment of the rest of society.

If the above is the case as regards the Republic then its political shift of the locus of power from a Parliament which appears to have increasingly governed in the Gallentean traditions of allowing lobbyists, banks, and CEO's to subsidize the candidates of their choice who would legislate in the interests of finance in the name of the free-market; towards the traditional cultural polities of Clan and Tribe and their Chiefs can only be considered a good thing.

This because the Clan and Tribal Chiefs are not beholden to faceless party apparatchiks whose policies are premised on political cronyism and venal self-enrichment from Gallentean executives and corporate lobbyists at the expense of the lives and interests of their own constituents. Rather, the Clan and Tribal Chiefs are beholden first and foremost to their own people. It is this very social responsibility and accountability that I believe will be instrumental if the Republic is to realize a truly robust and prosperous economy.

An inclusive capitalist economy where lending is directed not towards a narrow tranche of wealthy few at the expense of an impoverished many. No, I believe the Minmatar Chiefs understand where their economic best interests lie and that is in the implementation of regulations and practices that redirect financial capital where it should go:

To productive Minmatar companies and industries to pay fair and equitable wages to workers with the intention to create a middle-class able to promote further economic growth and job creation through domestic consumption and spending.


A very interesting analysis, thank you!

I agree that some of the more exotic financial products that might come out of Garoun Investment and other banks could disastrous as we move away from a Gallente-style government structure, and in fact, I think some people have already taken a bath here and there. Isolated cases, though, so no one's really taken notice.

The big problem that you face though is that the administrative decentralization between Republic, tribe, and clan in terms of financial practices would create a significant arbitrage opportunity that I imagine investment bankers, fund managers, and financial lobbyists couldn't wait to exploit. There are a million places to transfer risk at different levels in ways that could remain hidden in the language and informal connections between these entities until a meltdown is upon everyone. I think most Vherokior clans might be able to suss out the obvious grifters, but I would imagine that no one would get out unscathed.

I suppose that same decentralization might work to mitigate any fallout from a collapsing bubble in one tribe or another, but with the economic activity between tribes heating up (and due to heat up more under the Tribal Council), everyone would feel the shockwaves eventually. I think those shockwaves would be felt in Gallente as well given how much international business activity there is between Matari in both nations.

As far as drivers of financing, I worry about those involved in the military industrial complex of the Republic. While they may be loyal to tribe and clan, there is also a significant drive towards capital intensive military projects based on a certain hawkish wind that has blown in behind Shakor. So far, the Sanmatar has kept real spending towards that within reason, but I can see an attack or international incident with the Amarr forcing the military to expand at a rate faster than tax receipts, leading eyes towards investment bankers and high risk loans from opportunistic bankers. So far it hasn't been a problem, but it could be.

What are your thoughts about the future of central banking in the Republic post Tribal Council?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#324 - 2016-09-16 03:02:06 UTC
Never let the success of any player in your financial system become more important than your financial system.

We learned that lesson the hard way when we allowed the Providence Directorate to conceal what underwriting the War Effort was doing to Kaalakiotaa. There have to be competitors and they have to be able to profit from pointing out weakness or corruption.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Slayer Liberator
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#325 - 2016-09-16 03:32:50 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Eve Talaminada wrote:
First and foremost, the very specific nature of Minmatar technology, seemingly put together half-hazardly and yet functioning (and often mocked by the other races), is a sign that things have not been done the way the other races have done it, if anything else.


So-- sort of a question for everyone, here--

I had an idea that Matari technology was really pragmatic, out of necessity-- that it's stuff that had to be thrown together when a bunch of formerly-enslaved engineers got together with some military leaders and went, "Okay-- we're loose, we've got funding from the Federation, but we need a fleet, like, yesterday. It's going to be really outnumbered and outgunned until we can build a LOT more of it, so-- hit and run as a core doctrine? Right! Let's do this."

... without, maybe, a whole lot of attention to pre-DoD stuff? I mean, the ancient Matari kind of didn't "do" warfare, if ... I'm hearing right?

How badly wrong am I?
I think your basic premise is not too wrong pilot Jenneth. However I would add that the Caldari State was also a patron of the young newly established Minmatar Republic, something due to current alignments some people forget. I never will.

Matari ship design in the rebellion and young Republic era had never had the luxury to include elements that were not absolutely essential to complete the design goal of the vessel, both funds and materials to construct the fleets had to be stretched to their limits and then a little further.

Early clashes with slavery cult fleets in the rebellion demonstrated that they were not invulnerable and that Matari pilots and crews willing to risk using faster deadly ships that used a bare bones design could find success in combat operations. That was the priority being able to prevail in the fight, as combat pilots we all know the planners/ strategists of warfare concern themselves with kill/death ratios. Minmatar vessels early on had an emphasis on being able to rack up the highest number of kills before their eventual death. They were operating in desperate times, but their cause was just, and countless pilots and crews made the ultimate sacrifice in combat to help establish and then stabilize the young Republic.

I would not say hit and run was the core doctrine, it seems looking back it was more hit fast and hard before the bigger more powerful fleets can effectively respond and crush us. Each pilot knew that his/her ship was harder for the rebellion or the young Republic to replace then their counterparts across the field of combat so they were intent upon punching above their weight to compensate for that fact. They knew that they needed to inflict losses greater than their numbers on the field in every engagement to have the possibility of success. In a slow grinding war of attrition they could not hope for victory, the resource base of the slavery cult empire given enough time to regain it's balance would have overwhelmed them.

Juxtapose the designs of the Elder Fleet that was sent to emancipate planets and hold systems while taking on the fleets of the slavery cultists head on. Different goals from those earlier designs but just as effective tactically. Had it not been for a secret weapon, that had not been seen prior to it's use against the Elder fleet the maps of empire space might be very very different today.


You mean the Amarr? Even Kim calls us Gallente
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#326 - 2016-09-16 05:24:43 UTC
You have to remember the paralysis that day caused in both its primary victims. The Elder Fleet was a raiding fleet, primarily,can't designed to hold space, but to penetrate, stun and then escape with the booty. What Empress Jamyl brought wasn't so much firepower beyond the projection of the Golden Fleet so much as a Fleet's worth of firepower in a very mobile package.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#327 - 2016-09-16 15:16:22 UTC
Slayer Liberator wrote:

You mean the Amarr? Even Kim calls us Gallente

Actually I have been lately trying to call Gallente as occupants, as frogs, as fascists. Because when I was referencing to Federal lapdogs simply as Gallente, some not very smart persons were blubbering about me being "genocidist", just because Gallente is a name not only of their criminal Federation, but also of a bloodline.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#328 - 2016-09-16 15:42:55 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:

You mean the Amarr? Even Kim calls us Gallente

Actually I have been lately trying to call Gallente as occupants, as frogs, as fascists. Because when I was referencing to Federal lapdogs simply as Gallente, some not very smart persons were blubbering about me being "genocidist", just because Gallente is a name not only of their criminal Federation, but also of a bloodline.


That's thoughtful.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#329 - 2016-09-17 23:24:45 UTC
Felise Selunix wrote:

What are your thoughts about the future of central banking in the Republic post Tribal Council?


I believe there is an important lesson to be learned from the recent practices of Caldari banks such as Sukuuvestaa, Nugoeihuvei, and CBD. Their ever increasing leveraging of capital against existing assets such as shares and property in speculation led to an inversion of a Golden Rule of Caldari capitalism: Finance serves Business.

When it does not and capital is shifted from business lending to trading between banks, investment funds, insurances, etc. it leads to a contraction of the real economy, decreases in wages, job and pension insecurity, and especially a reduction in the job creation of entrepreneurs, small-medium business and technological startups as their only source of securing capital would have to be through incorporation/IPO releases which might not suit their particular models or products. Especially if full commercialization and/or service model profitability is measured in months or years and not in the next quarter.

There is a reason why the most widespread support for the Caldari Providence Directorate was to be found in SuVee, NOH, and CBD. It was the workers and employees in those companies that experienced decreases in wages, work conditions, and standards of living as the upper echelons of management were proud to report record profits due to their speculative adventurism as they glossed over the signs of impending recession made manifest when Karsoth-era Imperial trade negotiations fell through. A recession that negatively impacted the entire State economy and provided the populist support for a man such as Tibus Heth, whom drew upon a widespread disaffection of those wishing to change a status quo they believe had failed them to his nationalist and military agenda.

You have already identified a, "Hawkish wind," In the Republic. As such, I will say a critical role of any reserve/central bank within the Republic at present should be preventing the economic instability that, as seen in the State and throughout history prior, breeds support for bellicose populists with simple answers for complex issues and which blow hawkish winds into infernos that all too often burn their own as much as the intended targets of those deemed internal or external threats and enemies.

Against the advice of Gallentean economists and NGO's I just don't see the Republic as being able to support an advanced market economy except on a fraction of its worlds. In the old parlance of the Kaalakiota Colonial Development Index a lot of Republic worlds would probably be classifed as Phase II or Phase III -- requiring directed --

...apologies.

Requiring directed investments in the areas of agriculture, infrastructure, construction, manufacturing and industry. This would also be the best means to put the Republic labour pool to work -- especially its unemployed refugee population. Individual clans being able to issue long-term bonds backed by a central Republic bank would be a way to secure capital from the remittances of the Minmatar expatriate population in the Federation and decouple their debt loading from foreign banks to those who would have an actual stake in their community beyond interest derived profits.

Now, this might be Kaalakiota style economics in me speaking, but the Tribes and a central Republic bank should not be afraid to implement protectionist measures to secure itself from the worst vagaries and predations of a Gallentean liberal free-market. As on old Caldari patriot once said:

"...A free market is never free. Our policies of protection serves as a bulwark of Caldari industrial independence, our development, and our prosperity. This true Caldari policy protects the Caldari market for Caldari industries. It protects the Caldari standard of wages for the Caldari worker. We will never abandon the goals of self-sufficiency."

The Gallente might disagree with such a sentiment, but almost eight hundred years of Caldari corporate self-sufficiency and prosperity is enough proof in the pudding, I think.

@fakeveik

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#330 - 2016-09-19 22:41:16 UTC
Much has been said in this thread, by many voices. As such I hesitate to add my own, however here are my thoughts as to the original question.

Where are we?

- We are are a unique period for our people. We have finally shaken off the Gallantean style of Parliamentary Government and have established a true Tribal Government where our Ideals and Values are reflected in the way we govern ourselves. For the first time in centuries, the 7 Tribes are united once more, and although there is much work to be done, we can do so together. Our Militia Forces have achieved total victory in the ongoing conflict against the Great Enemy, and although it is the nature of the pendulum war for systems to swing back and forth, this is a noteworthy achievement.

Where are we you ask? My answer is that we are finally in a place where we can truly take pride in ourselves, in our own achievements, in our own heritage and culture. We have shown the galaxy, and more importantly, proven to ourselves that we do not need to to define ourselves by the actions of others; whether they be of our Noble Allies, or the great enemy. We are whole. We define ourselves, and it is up to us to safeguard and protect our Tribal Republic.

Where are we headed?

- The rosey image I painted above is fragile and delicate. It can too easily be shattered by extreme forces, both within and without. I am cautiously optimistic about what the future holds for the 7 tribes, however we must take care not break it along the way.

I feel what the Tribal Republic needs, now more than ever, is patience and restraint. We must look internally and focus on the needs of our worlds, of our people. Yes, we must diligently watch our borders for any threats, but we must not react wildly at the slightest perceived insult.

We need to invest in our Economy. In our infrastructure. As Capsuleers we are in a unique position to help in this investment. We see more wealth pass through our wallets than some communities see in a life time. If we can leverage that wealth, Invest in the the infrastucture of the tribes, create jobs, pay our workers a good, decent wage, then they can in turn help improve out republic as well.



While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#331 - 2016-09-20 02:18:30 UTC
We also must not forget about the Starkmanir and Nefantar. Both tribes do not get enough spotlight. The Starkmanir, as I understand it, are still sorting out the scraps of their former identities to figure out how they fit into the Minmatar ecosystem. The Nefantar still act somewhat like the Amarr: Patronising, big-headed and irritatingly holier-than-thou.

How should the Starkmanir and the Nefantar be helped to integrate into becoming truly one of us?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#332 - 2016-09-20 02:27:44 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
We also must not forget about the Starkmanir and Nefantar. Both tribes do not get enough spotlight. The Starkmanir, as I understand it, are still sorting out the scraps of their former identities to figure out how they fit into the Minmatar ecosystem. The Nefantar still act somewhat like the Amarr: Patronising, big-headed and irritatingly holier-than-thou.

How should the Starkmanir and the Nefantar be helped to integrate into becoming truly one of us?



I understand that culture is important for your people, but your very first priority when trying to put together a polity shouldn't be attempting to cobble together a series of fairy stories in an attempt to foster a false sense of community.

If you'll take advice from a Caldari, the very first thing you need to do is inculcate in the new polity a feeling that they, for better or worse, are now in this together and only through their new identity can they lobby for the things that they find worthwhile. Then work must be done to provide them a solid base upon which to achieve in whichever way they think best.

Infrastructure and Opportunity.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Matar Ronin
#333 - 2016-09-20 03:00:29 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
We also must not forget about the Starkmanir and Nefantar. Both tribes do not get enough spotlight. The Starkmanir, as I understand it, are still sorting out the scraps of their former identities to figure out how they fit into the Minmatar ecosystem. The Nefantar still act somewhat like the Amarr: Patronising, big-headed and irritatingly holier-than-thou.

How should the Starkmanir and the Nefantar be helped to integrate into becoming truly one of us?



I understand that culture is important for your people, but your very first priority when trying to put together a polity shouldn't be attempting to cobble together a series of fairy stories in an attempt to foster a false sense of community.

If you'll take advice from a Caldari, the very first thing you need to do is inculcate in the new polity a feeling that they, for better or worse, are now in this together and only through their new identity can they lobby for the things that they find worthwhile. Then work must be done to provide them a solid base upon which to achieve in whichever way they think best.

Infrastructure and Opportunity.
Although the current state of political alignments do not reflect this the Minmatar and Caldari would gain the most from implementing the "Best Practices" from each other.

The success of the Caldari education system to rapidly uplift their populace is a model that would be beneficial in the modern Minmatar Republic.

To avoid the inevitable racist rant of a certain Caldari soldier who trolls the IGS I will skip making an example of a Minmatar best practice that would have a beneficial effect on the State.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#334 - 2016-09-20 03:27:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
I think we have much more to learn from the Caldari than the Caldari has to learn from us. Minmatar worlds have alot of resources though.

Edit: You still haven't defined what is 'Best Practices' in the context of the Minmatar, Matar Ronin. Don't think we had forgotten about that.

Also, far as I know, the Republic still suffers from a case of 'right hand doesn't know what left hand is doing' and 'passion over sense'. That, coupled by the current reiteration of the Republic's lack of a red tape, meant we had to deal with fellow tribesmen acting rashly en-masse.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#335 - 2016-09-20 15:58:42 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
We also must not forget about the Starkmanir and Nefantar. Both tribes do not get enough spotlight. The Starkmanir, as I understand it, are still sorting out the scraps of their former identities to figure out how they fit into the Minmatar ecosystem. The Nefantar still act somewhat like the Amarr: Patronising, big-headed and irritatingly holier-than-thou.

How should the Starkmanir and the Nefantar be helped to integrate into becoming truly one of us?


I do not feel qualified to answer this question. I am neither Starkmanir nor Nefantar. I am Brutor. I do not know whatthey need. Only they know that.

What I can say however is that this is their task. We cannot hand them an identity. We cannot impose onto them what we think they should be. All we can do is provide them with what ever help they ask.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#336 - 2016-09-21 01:12:21 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
To avoid the inevitable racist rant of a certain Caldari soldier who trolls the IGS I will skip making an example of a Minmatar best practice that would have a beneficial effect on the State.


Feel free to contact my privately if you legitimately have a process improvement that can improve the life of State citizens. The great thing about being Caldari is I don't give a damn how we improve efficiency, so long as it improves and the benefits go to every citizen involved!

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

terzslave
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#337 - 2016-09-21 01:31:46 UTC  |  Edited by: terzslave
Matar Ronin wrote:


Although the current state of political alignments do not reflect this the Minmatar and Caldari would gain the most from implementing the "Best Practices" from each other.

The success of the Caldari education system to rapidly uplift their populace is a model that would be beneficial in the modern Minmatar Republic.

To avoid the inevitable racist rant of a certain Caldari soldier who trolls the IGS I will skip making an example of a Minmatar best practice that would have a beneficial effect on the State.


The Caldari education system works for us due to our culture of discipline and collectivism. I'm not sure such a system would work well with the individualistic nature of the Minmatar.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#338 - 2016-09-21 01:40:21 UTC
terzslave wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:


Although the current state of political alignments do not reflect this the Minmatar and Caldari would gain the most from implementing the "Best Practices" from each other.

The success of the Caldari education system to rapidly uplift their populace is a model that would be beneficial in the modern Minmatar Republic.

To avoid the inevitable racist rant of a certain Caldari soldier who trolls the IGS I will skip making an example of a Minmatar best practice that would have a beneficial effect on the State.


The Caldari education system works for us due to our culture of discipline and self-sacrifice for the greater whole. Although I'm not putting your people's tribal fealty in doubt, I'm not sure such a system would work well with the individualistic nature of the Minmatar.


It's not a social norm for a Minmatar to be individualistic. Our culture and upbringing instilled into us the idea of putting our blood and kin's well-being above our own. However, us Minmatar also believe that if we are to take care of our blood and kin, we must first learn to take care of ourselves. That is the impetus for our individual needs for self-determination.

There is a good reason why the Federation democratic system doesn't work for us. Their ways encourage voting for the sake of individual needs and aspirations. Our way emphasizes on the needs of the community starting from the Family level all the way up to the Tribal level.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

terzslave
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#339 - 2016-09-21 01:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: terzslave
Elmund Egivand wrote:


It's not a social norm for a Minmatar to be individualistic. Our culture and upbringing instilled into us the idea of putting our blood and kin's well-being above our own. However, us Minmatar also believe that if we are to take care of our blood and kin, we must first learn to take care of ourselves. That is the impetus for our individual needs for self-determination.

There is a good reason why the Federation democratic system doesn't work for us. Their ways encourage voting for the sake of individual needs and aspirations. Our way emphasizes on the needs of the community starting from the Family level all the way up to the Tribal level.


Hmm well said, perhaps it isn't due to any cultural factors but more to do with the lack of the specialties needed. In the State, our children are monitored from birth with games and activities designed to determine their strengths and weaknesses before being placed in a school that nurtures their abilities to best serve the State.

As I understand it, your Tribes have "Circles" that serve a similar function? Perhaps the Republic could contract some Caldari child psychologists to help design a similar system?
Matar Ronin
#340 - 2016-09-21 02:08:08 UTC
terzslave wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:


Although the current state of political alignments do not reflect this the Minmatar and Caldari would gain the most from implementing the "Best Practices" from each other.

The success of the Caldari education system to rapidly uplift their populace is a model that would be beneficial in the modern Minmatar Republic.

To avoid the inevitable racist rant of a certain Caldari soldier who trolls the IGS I will skip making an example of a Minmatar best practice that would have a beneficial effect on the State.


The Caldari education system works for us due to our culture of discipline and collectivism. I'm not sure such a system would work well with the individualistic nature of the Minmatar.
I find it fascinating that someone from a society that is dominated by eight megacorps sees no comparison to a society that is dominated by seven tribes. In both cases where you are born determines to whom you feel loyalty. In both cases your loyalty to your corp or tribe morphs into loyalty to the Republic or State.

I doubt anyone could honestly say that more resolve and discipline has ever been demonstrated than that by the Matari people to shake off the yoke of slavery. Centuries of struggle that culminated in both a rebellion and the Elder Fleet invasion that reclaimed worlds once taken by force.

Family, clan, tribe, and nation all come before individual aspirations and most likely shape those aspirations to their service for the Matari people. One has only to look to history to understand that what is popularly said might not be fact based at all.

Case in point, the "argumentative Matari squabble among themselves constantly", historical fact: the Matari enjoyed the longest period of peace of any of the modern empires of New Eden before the Day of Darkness.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.