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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Zappity
Kurved Trading
#321 - 2016-08-31 17:49:05 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
I dont think it will end well.

CCP, stop until it will be too late. You will not gain money on this.
It will not solve problems. It will cause many new ones.

I think you probably need to be a little more specific to be useful.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#322 - 2016-08-31 17:51:57 UTC
Colman Dietmar wrote:
Will be funny if online doesn't improve after this. Even more funny if it just continues to decline.


I'm not hoping this will happen. Hell, i can actually truthfully say that I hope i am wrong. But I am saying I think this will happen (if history is a guide). It seems gimmicky.

Some are surprised that there is not more anger at the announcement. I think that can be summed up by 1 thing, "anger fatigue". We've been slapped around so much the last couple years, everything from jump fatigue to skill injection and all the rest, that it's almost hard to get angry anymore lol. I mean, who wasn't expecting this?

I just hope that one day CCP goes back to their hardcore viking "here's a ship, **** you" ways of building upon EVE's strengths as a harsh unforgiving Darwinistic place. As it is now, CCP is trying to move forward by addressing it's weaknesses (ie attract more casual, risk averse standard mmo players who think 50 cents a day is robbery), and that's just not going to end well IMO.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#323 - 2016-08-31 17:52:19 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
2) Im sure this will increase pvp targets. But you know how crafty eve players are. I can almost promise you that some alliance is going to become the blob of T1 ships and be like a swarm of locust. It doesnt matter if you kill 50 or 100 of them because there are thousands. Your tossing a cup of water on a forest fire.
Good! "Too many PvP targets" is never a thing.

Quote:
3) The price of minerals are going to go through the roof because now you have masses of people buying t1 frigs> cruisers. This is going to cause everything that uses these minerals to also increase in price.
If mineral prices spike, mining will increase, which will reduce mineral prices.

Quote:
4) The price of plexes are going to go increase probably by 20-30% at least as the free players attempt to plex their account.
Good, because that's money for CCP, and the players will get hooked on Omega state play and will hopefully become long-term players.

Quote:
5) These free players are going to suck up resources that are already heavily competed for. Specifically exploration sites.
That's okay. They can only train hacking to 3, they can't cloak, and they can't fly SoE ships. They won't compete for the high-end sites.


Lunarstorm95
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#324 - 2016-08-31 17:52:36 UTC
I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick....

“You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.” ― Robert A. Heinlein "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." ― Confucius 

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#325 - 2016-08-31 17:52:53 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

This is a social game and WHO you play with is as important to most people here as what you are playing. If the social aspect of this game becomes like F2P games, ive played in the past, i likely wont stick around. I dont want to try to relax in the middle of Daycare Online.


If that happens, you should probably consult with your corp mates and recruiters to find out why they're keeping such annoying people around. If you and enough corp mates disagree with the decision, splinter off. Unlike many games, EVE's primary chat rooms are in Alliance, Corp, and Fleet (or your coalition's equivalent of Alliance and Corp). The "global" channels are Local, Constellation (basically unused), and Region (even less used, and closes annoyingly when changing regions). Those can be blocked quite nicely to only allow yourself to see the players, all without seeing what they're saying.

Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

2) Im sure this will increase pvp targets. But you know how crafty eve players are. I can almost promise you that some alliance is going to become the blob of T1 ships and be like a swarm of locust. It doesnt matter if you kill 50 or 100 of them because there are thousands. Your tossing a cup of water on a forest fire.


Having fights isn't a bad thing.


Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

3) The price of minerals are going to go through the roof because now you have masses of people buying t1 frigs> cruisers. This is going to cause everything that uses these minerals to also increase in price.


The hilarity of this statement is that people are saying it's going to go both ways. The mass influx of Venture miners will tank mineral prices, while the vast influx of clueless players losing poorly-fit and skilled ships will increase prices. Make up your minds, eh?

Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

4) The price of plexes are going to go increase probably by 20-30% at least as the free players attempt to plex their account.

Another one I've heard people going both ways about. The Alpha players are going to farm until they can PLEX, driving PLEX prices up, and the Alpha players are going to inject PLEX to get a significant source of ISK with which they can throw out hundreds of cheap ships, thus driving the price of PLEX down. Again, make up your minds.

Roenok Baalnorn wrote:

5) These free players are going to suck up resources that are already heavily competed for. Specifically exploration sites. As it catches on we are going to have to compete more and more with free players to the point where grinding is going to become so grindy thats literally all you can do in game is try to grind a few million isk. So CCP will have to increase the amount of resources seeded in the game to match the demand, and honestly they havent been impressing me lately.


There's so much space that's unused in EVE that the most likely thing you'll see happening is vets moving to the edges with the clueless players clustering in the middle.
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#326 - 2016-08-31 17:53:01 UTC
Hunter Anubis wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Greetings capsuleers!

Today, we are happy to announce a new change that’s coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client.

In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a character’s race.

A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=452051 how about I get a little bit of credit? I sugested this same thing 11 months ago...


I've been suggesting this in random posts for like 2 or 3 years.

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thoryo darkstarz
Doomheim
#327 - 2016-08-31 17:53:04 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
I dont think it will end well.

CCP, stop until it will be too late. You will not gain money on this.
It will not solve problems. It will cause many new ones.

I think you probably need to be a little more specific to be useful.

ive seen this idea fail in everyother game that has tried this
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#328 - 2016-08-31 17:54:01 UTC
Lunarstorm95 wrote:
I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick....


You mean like... buying ISK? Oh wait... Uhm... buying SP? No... hang on. Buying too expensive SKINs for your shi... oh.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#329 - 2016-08-31 17:54:04 UTC
Logan Revelore wrote:
Good initiative.

Next up if you ask me, starting to spread a thin layer of themepark on top of the sandbox, which contains themepark stuff to do, stuff that's achieved by using sandbox tools.

Rewards for daily logins next, pl0x.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#330 - 2016-08-31 17:54:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Heh, i think I know what will happen later.

They will introduce other Clone states, after Alpha there will be Beta, with more skills able to be trained or active when not paying for subscription. Of course the state will be altered with a certain item purchased for aurum in shop.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#331 - 2016-08-31 17:55:18 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Interesting.

So far, I cannot think of any major objections.
I will try to think of ways this can be abused, but barring that I don't see it being a bad thing.

I think it'd be fine for unlimited Mega clone clients to run along with a single Alpha clone client on the same computer, but I have concerns about multiple Alpha clone clients.

First possible "abuse":
Train an Alpha clone to 5m SP.
Switch it to Omega state, train Cybernetics to 5, plug in +5 implants, and have an SP farm ready to go without having to pay for the initial 5m SP investment.


From a revenue standpoint...so? So they skip that first month or so, but every month after that they are coughing up the money. If that means more people with paid accounts that otherwise....how is that bad?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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Mark Hadden
Alcoholocaust.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#332 - 2016-08-31 17:55:21 UTC
BuntCakez wrote:
I actually think that EVE is probably the only MMO that can successfully pull off the F2P model. With sufficient limits on the Alpha clones, they will not be able to disturb the current state of the game in an undesirable fashion :)


I'm unsure on that, I mean if those ftp accounts will be limited in such a vast number of ways, the question is if' playing these is going to be someones desire at all.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#333 - 2016-08-31 17:56:06 UTC
thoryo darkstarz wrote:
Q: What happens if my training queue contains Omega skills but I am in Alpha State?

A: We will pause your training queue and it will need to be manually restarted once the Omega skills are removed or the subscription is renewed.

so if i let my sub lapse do to work my skill que is going to stop training, im sorry thats bullshit.
This game will be going the way of the titanic like every other mmo thats tried this.

Your skill queue already stops training if you drop your sub (it might train for up to 72 hours after your account goes inactive under the current system).

However, with a 5 million SP limit on alphas, just train those up first, before you ever even start paying for the game. Then, the situation is just the same as now.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#334 - 2016-08-31 17:57:25 UTC
Arkoth 24 wrote:
Logan Revelore wrote:
Good initiative.

Next up if you ask me, starting to spread a thin layer of themepark on top of the sandbox, which contains themepark stuff to do, stuff that's achieved by using sandbox tools.

Rewards for daily logins next, pl0x.


Yep,. it's like that Big smile
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#335 - 2016-08-31 17:57:35 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Brown Pathfinder wrote:
This is a huge change to eve wich might help get new players in wich is a good thing!
My personal monkey with this is as a wormhole explorer player that in periods live in the deepest space that you want to remove my ability to have cloak and pirate and t2 ships, so if i would be inactive for a while and come back in my stratios or anathema or legion and I would be in wh-space I would have to self destruct since i cant cloak while in a cov op ship AttentionCry


Why not just pay your sub before logging in?

Or: log in an alt who is someplace safe and use a PLEX.

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Lunarstorm95
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#336 - 2016-08-31 17:58:09 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Lunarstorm95 wrote:
I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick....


You mean like... buying ISK? Oh wait... Uhm... buying SP? No... hang on. Buying too expensive SKINs for your shi... oh.



Im more talking about buying additional access for ur alpha toon. Like allowing to train t2 mods or allowe d to train other races ect ect

Kinda like swtor did. Allow you to slowly purchase yourself to a full access clone without actually subbing

“You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.” ― Robert A. Heinlein "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." ― Confucius 

Garret Sidzaka
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#337 - 2016-08-31 17:59:42 UTC
mining barges = bad idea.

i have personal friends who own more than 500 ip addresses and can fake mac addresses all damn day, and own server farms with V5 intel graphical server CPU's

i would not allow mining barges and only mining frigs.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2016-08-31 18:00:09 UTC
thoryo darkstarz wrote:
Q: What happens if my training queue contains Omega skills but I am in Alpha State?

A: We will pause your training queue and it will need to be manually restarted once the Omega skills are removed or the subscription is renewed.

so if i let my sub lapse do to work my skill que is going to stop training, im sorry thats bullshit.
This game will be going the way of the titanic like every other mmo thats tried this.
Don't let your sub lapse. Simple.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#339 - 2016-08-31 18:00:45 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
First, this is about trial vs. subscription, so in my opinion if you obfuscate this fact by using completely non-descriptive terms like "alpha" and "omega", you're doing yourselves a dis-service. You're placing a point of confusion between your game and people opening their wallets to pay you for it. I would like to recommend calling it "trial" clones and "subscribed" clones, and inventing some in-character explanation for those terms. Because that's what we're familiar with.

Second, "alpha" and "omega"? "beginning" and "end"? really? You don't envision in-between states, like us paying through our nose to unlock individual features (I want access to the Megathron dammit, I love that ship, but I don't want to pay subscription or unlock anything else)? You don't envision more-than-subscription states, such as paying 2x subscription costs to slow-train at 2x the speed? 3x subscription for 3x speed? You don't envision anything in between alpha and omega, or beyond omega?

Link the subscription model to the clones if you want, it's a fine idea.

But just name it what it is, and let the naming convention allow for shades of grey in between and beyond "subscribed" or "not".


Sooo...just to be clear you want more microtransactions, not less.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

se'na'ki'ta yey'nii
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#340 - 2016-08-31 18:02:14 UTC
Multiple logins from Alpha accounts from the same IP address must be prohibited, and circumventing this must be a bannable offense!

Otherwise, It does not require much thought to realise how significant and detrimental this would be. Multiple people would run multiple free accounts for semi-AFK scouting, mining, hauling etc. You would also lose many subscription memberships

Clearer naming system would preferable! For example, "restricted" and "unrestricted" account. "unqualified" and "qualified" clones; "alpha" and "enhanced" clone states.