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Re-Cloaking at Gates
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Ty Blackwell
Kitzedoba Fleet
#21 - 2016-09-02 22:06:48 UTC
Do agility mods and/or character implants help this process work better?
Lynn Amethyst
Noobs Collecttion
Fraternity.
#22 - 2016-09-02 23:39:15 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Literally never been caught in a covert ops ship like this. Could be down to latency as I live less than 5 miles from the servers


Sadly I am also within walking distance to the servers so I can't really blame lag for this... I have previously been using the visual effect to judge de-cloaking, now that I knew about the capacitor method I'm realising I have been giving away a huge window of opportunity. Thanks to all the feedback I saw here I might be able to fly a little safer (I think!).
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2016-09-03 04:04:36 UTC
Cherri Minoa wrote:


As far as I am concerned this is the correct answer. Of course, lag, panic, clumsy fingers and pure bad luck can all play a part. But if everything goes right for you, and if there is no object within 2000m of you to prevent cloaking, your transition from gate cloak to ship cloak occurs before any ship, even a so called "insta-locker" can get a target lock on you.

As with all these things that require a cool head and correct timing, go somewhere quiet and practice it over and over and over again until it becomes automatic.

I did exactly that. I ran around in high sec practicing cloaking while leaving the gate. I had the timing down perfect. I still lost several cov ops ships. I've had much better luck flying an interceptor with agility mods. Admittedly I am not the best Eve player around but I did practice re-cloaking while warping from gate to gate a lot.

I live near Chicago so I'm not sure if it is a lag thing or if it is my lack of skill but my luck with cov ops cloaks and null sec gate camps has lead me to the conclusion that cov ops cloaks just aren't all that great for moving around in null sec. They might work ok in low sec but from my experience they are ****** in null sec. Again this is just my opinion from my experience.

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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2016-09-03 04:13:35 UTC
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:
It's the myth that just won't die.

Judging by the accent of the guy making the video, I am going to guess that he lives much closer to the servers than the average player. I don't hold this video as evidence that lag does not play a factor to other players who live further away.

I've had similar experiences to Pandora while doing this. Again maybe it's lag or maybe is my lack of ability but either way for me this video does not remove lag as a factor.

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Reinhardt Kreiss
TetraVaal Tactical Group
#25 - 2016-09-03 13:33:43 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:
It's the myth that just won't die.

Judging by the accent of the guy making the video, I am going to guess that he lives much closer to the servers than the average player. I don't hold this video as evidence that lag does not play a factor to other players who live further away.

I've had similar experiences to Pandora while doing this. Again maybe it's lag or maybe is my lack of ability but either way for me this video does not remove lag as a factor.


"That guy" lives in The Netherlands, not that close. And no it's not log at all, if it were then you'd notice it with other things as well. It's clearly and obviously well beyond the 1 second server tick.
Keno Skir
#26 - 2016-09-03 15:37:52 UTC
^ This guy speaks the truth. I regularly activate my MWD more than a second after i press cloak, it works every time. I live in the UK just FYI.

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Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#27 - 2016-09-14 11:19:10 UTC
For me it's come down to experience. I press Warp To and an arbitrary time after that I press MWD+Cloak. It works every time. Well...so far. You just have to learn to live with your ping and adjust accordingly. Sorry if that's not very helpful :S

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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2016-09-16 06:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Cherri Minoa wrote:
Major Trant wrote:
There is no such thing as an Insta-lock, so in theory it should always be possible to escape the lock attempt when in Covert Cloaked ship.

The issue is that many pilots panic when they jump into such a camp and they tend to hit the re-cloak button too fast. The cloak attempt fails because the server still thinks the gate cloak is in effect, but the graphics and other feedback are so poor that it isn't obvious. Next second you are pointed and dying and it is commmon to assume that you got pointed between the two cloaks when in fact your ship never tried to re-cloak and the fast locker actually took 2 seconds to acquire the lock.

There are two things you need to do to maximise your chances.

1. When you first jump into the camp, wait out your gate cloak timer for at least 55 seconds. The timer is visible in the top left corner of your screen, but not visible to the gate camper. This serves several purposes.
. The gate campers are overheating and their modules (SEBOs) are taking damage, so maximise that damage.
. In low sec, assuming your sec status is above -5.0 and you're not at war with them. They are going to be taking gate guns as soon as they engage, thus they will be aligned to something and gradually burning away from the gate.
. Doubt creeps into the gatecampers mind as to whether you actually jumped in.
. It take intense concentration on the part of the fast locker and that starts to wane at 40 seconds or so.
. Sometimes the cloak re-activation delay timer bugs and restarts after you have jumped.

The longer you wait, the more likely that when you do decloak, you'll do so at the same time the gatecamper is trying to stop his burn out, stop his overheating, checking his alts screen, asking questions of the scout or even just blinking and generally taking his eye and the mouse pointer off the bottom of the overview.

2. When you do hit align, mentally or loudly count "one thousand" then hit cloak. Simple.

Don't look for any visual notification message, don't look for changes in your cap, don't look for the cloak graphic. The feedback is unreliable, can take 2 or 3 seconds and then you have to react after that.

You could still be unlucky, but 99% of the time you won't have any problems.

As to your other question, the Falcon is a lousy ship for solo PvP. Assuming you are not classing double boxing two accounts as solo PvP.


As far as I am concerned this is the correct answer. Of course, lag, panic, clumsy fingers and pure bad luck can all play a part. But if everything goes right for you, and if there is no object within 2000m of you to prevent cloaking, your transition from gate cloak to ship cloak occurs before any ship, even a so called "insta-locker" can get a target lock on you.

As with all these things that require a cool head and correct timing, go somewhere quiet and practice it over and over and over again until it becomes automatic.
I agree with this 100%.

I mainly fly cloaked ships (Cov Ops Frigate, Force Recon Cruiser, T3 Cruiser, Blockade Runner) and basically do the same procedure. I've never been caught in any Gate Camp. Course I don't really bother with doing Align, I just simply check my Overview, make sure the next Gate is showing and selected in my route, hit the 'Jump' icon in the 'Selected Items' box and then hit Cloak. Course having high skill level with agility mods / rigs fitted makes the ship align and go into warp quite quickly, seemingly before the Cloak is even in full effect. Now when I'm in Null Space I'll warp to a Celestial object first, then warp to the Gate at 100km and check for Bubbles to re-plan my route accordingly.

Back years ago when I was first learning, I'd select the 'Warp to 0km' icon in selected items box and very quickly hit F-1 key (Cloak mod fit in keyboard shortcut) and probably about 1/3rd of the time I'd get a pop up message saying 'That action can't be completed due to still being in Gate Cloak'. While pondering that message, my surprise would quickly turn into terror due to my ship all of a sudden going into warp without cloak.

Course that wouldn't do so I had to change and practice how to successfully warp and activate cloak quickly. I've found the best and quickest way for me is to select the 'Warp to' or 'Jump' icon in the 'Selected Items' box and then quickly move my mouse down and actually click the cloak mod to activate it instead of using the keyboard command. I believe that provides just enough time for the server to tick and still follow commands without bogging down, inducing lag or doing some other stressful issue such as generating a pop up message saying it can't do that action.


DMC

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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#29 - 2016-09-16 06:40:40 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
As far as I understand remote sebos do not suffer diminishing returns. That means that a remote sensor boosted ship can get to nearly insta-lock.


oh, yes they do. that said, four of them will still boost a Sharpshooter mode T3D to absurd scan res levels.

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Petranese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-09-18 00:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Petranese
Quote:
I did exactly that. I ran around in high sec practicing cloaking while leaving the gate. I had the timing down perfect. I still lost several cov ops ships. I've had much better luck flying an interceptor with agility mods. Admittedly I am not the best Eve player around but I did practice re-cloaking while warping from gate to gate a lot.

I live near Chicago so I'm not sure if it is a lag thing or if it is my lack of skill but my luck with cov ops cloaks and null sec gate camps has lead me to the conclusion that cov ops cloaks just aren't all that great for moving around in null sec. They might work ok in low sec but from my experience they are ****** in null sec. Again this is just my opinion from my experience.


This is why i use Astero. It's much more agile than interceptors, allowing to have sub-2s warp time with much less dedicated setup.
It's basically:
2x T2 Nanos
1x T2 Agi rig
5mn MWD

Warps in 1.8s, overheated MWD puts it at 5km/s which is extremely good for escaping ganks.
With 1 Nano it warps at 1.9s and MWDs at 4.5km/s which is still really good.
Also, its armor resist bonuses plus T2 DCU make Astero much more resilient against smartbombers.

The most agile Ceptor (Ares) requires 1x T2 rig and 2 Istabs. But it has bubble immunity instead of covops cloak, which makes it better against bubble camps but worse against smartbombs.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#31 - 2016-09-20 17:49:53 UTC
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:
It's the myth that just won't die.


Linking a single instance of it working doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Now, it's entirely possible IT DOES WORK every time like you say and the overview/dashboard is just slow to respond. It's possible the server does it perfectly and gets the feed from your client perfectly every time.

I am in computers, especially client/server communications every day and I know for a fact that it's not a 100% perfect communications loop. Things get missed by servers or failed to send by clients ALL THE TIME.

So, you are betting that your MWD cloak trick works 100% of the time and your ship, goods, implants are on the line. I'm perfectly fine with that, it's your stuff.

My way allows for me to work safely with my cloak almost 100% of the time because I get feedback from my displays and while I may not get that extra half second of breathing room, I do get full speed going into cloak and 96% of the time I'm not under the gaze of an insta-locker so it's pretty safe. If I am under that gaze, then I'll follow the fast MWD cloak trick method and hope that the 90% of the time I'm sure it works pays off or that you guys are right and that it's 100% reliable and I'm just being stupid foolish. Either way, I win, even if I believe in a "myth".

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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#32 - 2016-09-21 12:56:18 UTC
Good stuff so far I have another way to help hjudge cloak timing.
Looking at the scrreen for notice that your warp drive activates occurs at the same time as the cpa drop, some find this an easier thing to watch for than the cap drop.

Memphis Baas wrote:
You pop out and then try to cloak, and they try to lock you. If they lock you, you can't cloak. If you do manage to cloak and disappear, they are still moving at MWD speed towards your last known position, and if they get within 2.5 km of your cloaked ship you are de-cloaked by proximity.

Force de-cloak range is 2,000 meters not 2,500. And yes a good cloak pilot can approach a gate and begin the jump process before anyone knows you are there. Like everything else it just takes some practice.

Posted back in 2014 but the process is still the same, this may help you better understand the process.
EvE server ticks
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