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Dev blog: Command Bursts and the New World of Fleet Boosting

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Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#1201 - 2016-09-13 12:06:13 UTC
Abadayos wrote:
Resa Moon wrote:
Abadayos wrote:
As a null sec miner that usually boosts the fleet in my rorq, I will keep on boosting the fleet when required, in my rorq, in the belt.

Here is the reasoning why it's virtually risk free if you set up right:
- If your mining in a fleet, people nearby are ratting too, usually in the same system or 2 jumps out
- your mining location should already of been picked because it is isolated/doesn't see much traffic in the first place.
- cynos...your mining in null, you have access to a metric crapton of 'big toys'...your using a capital already so production is there.
- comms or scouts
- intel channels, again..or scouts
- a max tank fit on your rorq, you can get over 4 million EHP quite easily, enough buffer for FAX's to jump in and rep you
- eventual PANIC button for 5 minutes to get your crap together if you messed up.


If you have that sort of set-up, which any decent nullsec alliance has by default, then you should be pretty much perfectly safe. The only way you can really get screwed is via a WH spewing out a crapton of T3's, but you will have a cyno handy and a PANIC immunity for 5 minutes so you have time to react, even as local spikes with 60+ T3's with your destruction on their mind. Jump in carriers, FAXs and go to town, if it is 60+ T3's...your boned either way really unless you have BFG titans and you have the PANIC up so your immune to the DD damage, they clear tackle..and most of anything else on field, your PANIC drops, you jump out and your mining ships bugger off to your local citadel and you take out apocs (or ship of choice for hole rolling) and roll the hole. Job done.

Sure you will loose stuff, but ah well. In that situation you would loose ships anyways



Or put another way, anom mining in a Rorq is perfectly safe, in a perfect world.


No-where did I say it was perfectly safe. What I was saying was with a good group and organization the risks are greatly reduced and when the worst should happen you already have in place contingency plans (ratting carriers/supers/titans..the cyno, being near your ratters and some people like to have FAX alts logged in just incase a cap/super gets tackled.

In a perfect world, your Rorqual is perfectly safe docked up in an NPC station and your account un-subbed to further prevent the loss of the rorqual..but that's hardly perfect now is it?




You're still on about massive alliances and corps though..

Btw, how long do you think your alliance/corp will enjoy running all over the place trying to save god knows how many Rorqs and Orca's constantly, or will they eventually get fed up and just say tough, don't use it?
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1202 - 2016-09-13 12:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Laurens Punani
Khan Wrenth wrote:


You instantly lost the debate right there. Who forces what? Did a clown car of CCP devs drive to your house in the middle of the night, force you to boot your computer, log into EvE, and warp a Roq to a belt? No? Well, what's the forcing involved then? You aren't forced to do a single thing. You can mine perfectly fine without boosts. You can use an Orca or a Porpoise. You can risk the Roq or decide against it. You can also quit mining and go to a more profitable profession at any time.

You can try to form a league of miners that charge more for their minerals. You can try to convince traders at Jita to up their prices. You can take part in the ganking of highsec miners, or hunting nullsec ones. You can increase demand for your minerals by helping blow stuff up or decreasing supply.

But what you can't do, is assume or demand CCP give you all the isk in the world because your profession is some special snowflake. You get M^3 and bring it to market, by whatever means you have available. Players set the prices. CCP could double your yields and you'd still end up with the same isk at the end of the day because what you mine is important only in regards to other sources of mineral income and mineral destruction. Everything else balances itself out.

If Isk were tremendously harder to get, by your example, prices would drop due to a dearth of circulating isk in the economy. That includes, especially, your precious minerals. When isk is easy to get, like now, prices rise due to the lack of scarcity of the currency. You'd recognize those concepts as inflation and deflation, obviously tremendously simplified for this discussion.

You're comparing the generation of currency, to the generation of a resource that only has value relative to the currency. Apples and oranges.


Also, last I checked, CCP did nerf nullsec bounties to encourage use of the ESS. Not 50%, granted, but it did happen. People complained then, too. Then they adapted. In due time, you will adapt, and the discussion will no longer be about your persecution complex.

Oh and I'm positive ratters, especially capitals, would rejoice if they had a panic button they could use to buy time for reinforcements to arrive. The difference is the crowd of people in combat ships expect losses, work together for support and backup, etc. Maybe you should try that? Don't mine where you can't expect backup, don't field assets you and your friends can't defend, and learn from your mistakes. Every carrier ratter that gets caught and killed made those mistakes and paid for it with their multi-billion-isk assets, why should you be immune from it?



Mining without boosts is no viable alternative since your income drops by 50% --> If you want to plex your accounts you need boosts --> ccp forces us to use boosts because otherwise we cannot play the game without RL money. simple as that

Fielding billions of isks is not really the point, the point is, that mining boosts are the only boosts that directly influence your productivity in PVE. What I am talking about ist the relative income, which will drop for everyone who can not field a rorqual, be it because of the lack of skills, money or because they are a coward... 95% of the EVE population dont have the backup, needed to anchor 20b worth of ships at 5 in the morning because they want to PVE before work... If it wasnt anchored and you had the chance to reduce the risk for yourself with scouts and intel i'd be okay with that, but if Big alliances can make a lot more money with a lot less risk and possibly skill, just because theyve got a ******* huge blue donut and 150 supercap pilots, who are bored it's not changing for the better!

ps. miners are special snowflakes;) whoelse fields multiple billions of assests without weapons? who else is dependant on fleetboosts just to be able to compete with others? (dont tell me big fleets work that way! 150 cruisers without boosts still beat 100 with boosts. 150 hulks without boosts mine 25% less than 100 hulks with boosts)

So, again, it is BULLSHIT that this is the best time to be a miner, it is the best time to be a PL/NC/idontcarewhatelse - miner


EDIT: If miningboosts would give you 15% more yield, you would be correct, but they give you 100% more

some figures: numer of hours needed to pay for a plex while doing a PVE activity without boosts while others recieve boosts:

Ratting: about 20h
Incursions : about 10h
Exploration : about 15h
...
Mining : about 80h

tell me again how mining boosts are optional!
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1203 - 2016-09-13 12:34:48 UTC
But ..... if there's less ore in general, wouldn't that mean the price goes up?

And more importantly, a difference in those who mine with and those who mine without boosts? Organized groups earn more, provided they can defend their booster ...? Just spitballing.
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1204 - 2016-09-13 12:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Laurens Punani
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
But ..... if there's less ore in general, wouldn't that mean the price goes up?

And more importantly, a difference in those who mine with and those who mine without boosts? Organized groups earn more, provided they can defend their booster ...? Just spitballing.



this is true, so removing every single direct yield and cycle time boost would be the best thing to do.... the difference of mining with, or without boosts ist just TOO big. A Nullsec Hulk in an average mining op can make 45-50m per hour, unboost that would be about 20 (since you lose range and have to slowboat its even more than 50%)

If a big alliance can provide cover for a couple of ops, their ore-yield would not change, while all the others in the game make significantly less ore. while still risking more assets than they do now
--> a lot of people might stop mining
-->ore prices rise
--> Big alliances can make tons of money because they have 30% yield than all the others
-->Small miners will get just a little less money per hour

If the need to siege the rorqual would be removed ppl would not have an excuse not to field it (except :"I want to be brain afk")

If miningboosts were removed alltogether (the yield and cycle time ones) fielding a booster would indeed become optional, just like it is for every single other boost in the game


EDIT: a possible outcome would be

Hulk recieving a sieged rorq boost : 55m/h
Hulk recieving a normal rorq boost: 40m/h
Hulk recieving no boost at all : 25m/h

But since most miners recieve maximum boosts right now, the small ones, casual miners, would suffer the most
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1205 - 2016-09-13 12:52:42 UTC
I'm going to make an effort to be nicer. So, I still respectfully disagree with your assertions and I will do my best to list and explain.


  • Mining without boosts is no viable alternative since your income drops by 50%

    • Income is still relative in the case of mining since you're competing for infinite resources against those could be bothered to harvest and process it. If everyone's M^3 drops, then everyone's income basically stays the same. If you can't field the same boosts as a larger entity, then, that's the point. I'm sorry there's no way to sugar coat it, but that's exactly what is supposed to be at play here. Bigger boys get bigger toys.

  • If you want to plex your accounts you need boosts --> ccp forces us to use boosts because otherwise we cannot play the game without RL money. simple as that

    • This is probably the biggest problem I have with what you've said. In what dev blog are you guaranteed boosts or guaranteed the right to farm enough materials to buy plex?

  • If Big alliances can make a lot more money with a lot less risk and possibly skill, just because theyve got a ******* huge blue donut and 150 supercap pilots, who are bored it's not changing for the better!

    • You said a lot in that paragraph but I think this was the most important snippet. Yes, part of the advantage of the INSANELY LARGE WORKLOAD of fostering a fledgling corp, recruiting new people, fending off wars, training the members, moving out to nullsec, carving out space for yourself and defending it, organizing your teams, getting good FCs in place...part of that advantage is that you get to take advantage of bigger and better things, including fielding mining capitals. You also get to field ratting capitals, which generally have more isk/hour generated than their HAC ratting cousins.

    You will still have boosts. You might not have the same level of boosts as the giant alliances. Or you might. Hire diplomats. Organize intel channels, ask other mining groups for advice in defense. I'll bet you, it'll be easier than you think to field a Roq. Maybe not "easy" in a complete sense, but probably easier than you're indicating.

  • ps. miners are special snowflakes;) whoelse fields multiple billions of assests without weapons? who else...

    • Sorry but not all things in EvE are equal. There will never be parity here. Logically, there can never be absolute parity between vastly different and diverse things. Accept that things are different and work within the confines of what is available to you. Trying to do otherwise just results in frustration.

  • some figures: numer of hours needed to pay for a plex while doing a PVE activity without boosts while others recieve boosts....Ratting: about 20h....Incursions : about 10h....Exploration : about 15h....Mining : about 80h....tell me again how mining boosts are optional!

    • Boosts are optional. Once upon a time, I mined. I had no boosts, no support of any kind. I think your estimate of "80 hours" is close enough to be correct. But I did it. Two marauders, a plex, and dozens of gank catalysts later, and I still have stockpiles of ore and minerals I'm too lazy to get to market.

    (side note, your estimates are very, very generous to those other professions. Under the most ideal, optimal, perfect conditions, and sometimes not even then. Don't let braggarts fool you)

    Again, where is any devblog guaranteeing parity between every possible profession in EvE? Sorry, there will always be winners or losers in this regard. And again again, the isk you get for your mining is due to supply and demand set by the players. If you absolutely need isk to survive on free-playing EvE, you yourself already listed several better options to pursue.

    Mine because there's something you enjoy in it. People PvP or PvE because there's stuff they enjoy in it. It's a game, enjoy it. If you're just grinding endlessly for isk for the ability to play another month free of grinding minerals for isk to plex again, then I don't understand your position and perhaps you should take a fresh look at it yourself.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1206 - 2016-09-13 13:17:43 UTC
Thank you!
You are not wrong in what you are saying in this post, but you were wrong when you said "This is th best time to be a miner!"


my point is, that mining boosts are the only boosts that favor powerblocks a lot more than smaller entities (assuming you have to siege the rorq) , so mining suddenly gets a whole lot less profitable for at least 70% of the miners and it gets even worse for the poor newbros without friends in shiny capitals.

When i started playing eve, i came to the provi block and was shocked to see how much money i could make while recieving a boost from some random guy, somewhere in the system... i did not even know where that boost was coming from until i read about it on the internet:D

The new system makes it practically impossible for a new player to think "in one year, i want to sit in a Carrier, built with the minerals I found and not bought wir RL money!"

Those people would definitly go and rat and make 60-70 million per hour in a vexor navy issue without any risk of getting ganked while watching lokal and a complete return of investment after 90 minutes of flying in forsaken hubs...

This is the absolute worst time to be new to mining and the absolute best time to be a 30-account-miner in a big alliance.

Can we at least agree on my last sentence so i dont have to check this thread anymore? :D I only wanted fozzie to adress the indu-core, but i guess i will have to wait a few days before i can decide what to do with my mining alts...
Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#1207 - 2016-09-13 14:16:25 UTC
Laurens Punani wrote:
Thank you!
You are not wrong in what you are saying in this post, but you were wrong when you said "This is th best time to be a miner!"


my point is, that mining boosts are the only boosts that favor powerblocks a lot more than smaller entities (assuming you have to siege the rorq) , so mining suddenly gets a whole lot less profitable for at least 70% of the miners and it gets even worse for the poor newbros without friends in shiny capitals.

When i started playing eve, i came to the provi block and was shocked to see how much money i could make while recieving a boost from some random guy, somewhere in the system... i did not even know where that boost was coming from until i read about it on the internet:D

The new system makes it practically impossible for a new player to think "in one year, i want to sit in a Carrier, built with the minerals I found and not bought wir RL money!"

Those people would definitly go and rat and make 60-70 million per hour in a vexor navy issue without any risk of getting ganked while watching lokal and a complete return of investment after 90 minutes of flying in forsaken hubs...

This is the absolute worst time to be new to mining and the absolute best time to be a 30-account-miner in a big alliance.

Can we at least agree on my last sentence so i dont have to check this thread anymore? :D I only wanted fozzie to adress the indu-core, but i guess i will have to wait a few days before i can decide what to do with my mining alts...



I'm in Provi myself, but we're not part of a big alliance.

I suppose we're a smallish corp really, sometimes we have 20/25/30 online (rare), sometimes half a dozen. We can't decide what's going to happen come November boost wise.

One things for sure, we couldn't afford to keep replacing Rorqs or Orcas.

Let's see what the Dolphin brings.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1208 - 2016-09-13 14:25:41 UTC
Ginger Naari wrote:

One things for sure, we couldn't afford to keep replacing Rorqs or Orcas.

Let's see what the Dolphin brings.


(inner nerd "orcas are dolphins")


one thing you may want to remember is you will still get more boosts out of a rorq now than an orca even outside of the industrial core. this means so long as you are not afk it can boost while having an E-cyno ready

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1209 - 2016-09-13 16:06:30 UTC
Laurens Punani wrote:
Thank you!
You are not wrong in what you are saying in this post, but you were wrong when you said "This is th best time to be a miner!"


my point is, that mining boosts are the only boosts that favor powerblocks a lot more than smaller entities (assuming you have to siege the rorq) , so mining suddenly gets a whole lot less profitable for at least 70% of the miners and it gets even worse for the poor newbros without friends in shiny capitals.

When i started playing eve, i came to the provi block and was shocked to see how much money i could make while recieving a boost from some random guy, somewhere in the system... i did not even know where that boost was coming from until i read about it on the internet:D

The new system makes it practically impossible for a new player to think "in one year, i want to sit in a Carrier, built with the minerals I found and not bought wir RL money!"

Those people would definitly go and rat and make 60-70 million per hour in a vexor navy issue without any risk of getting ganked while watching lokal and a complete return of investment after 90 minutes of flying in forsaken hubs...

This is the absolute worst time to be new to mining and the absolute best time to be a 30-account-miner in a big alliance.

Can we at least agree on my last sentence so i dont have to check this thread anymore? :D I only wanted fozzie to adress the indu-core, but i guess i will have to wait a few days before i can decide what to do with my mining alts...


Hate to break it to you but eve is not about equality.

If you can't afford to plex without rorqual boosts and you're too scared to actually risk one: tough ****, go do something else or work around it.

That's the essence of eve, innovation in the face of adversity.

Art of Explosions
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1210 - 2016-09-13 16:21:57 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:


Hate to break it to you but eve is not about equality.

If you can't afford to plex without rorqual boosts and you're too scared to actually risk one: tough ****, go do something else or work around it.

That's the essence of eve, innovation in the face of adversity.



hate to break it to you, but this is not about me complaining about not having a rorqual boosts, this is about all the other people who wont have one and wont be able to plex their accounts with mining.
I COULD get rorqual boosts and I WOULD field one if i felt like doing it was worth it... if not, i can still fly vexor navy issues on 3-4 accounts for 200 million isk/hour and drop 4 subscriptions... a workaround, but probably one that makes the game more boring for me and everyone who comes by, trying to get a nice killmail...


so please give me more of your intelligent explanations of how this boosting system is going to bring more people into the industrial sector of eve :D:D:D:D

gosh, sometimes people are so narrow minded -.-
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1211 - 2016-09-13 16:54:30 UTC
Laurens Punani wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:


Hate to break it to you but eve is not about equality.

If you can't afford to plex without rorqual boosts and you're too scared to actually risk one: tough ****, go do something else or work around it.

That's the essence of eve, innovation in the face of adversity.



hate to break it to you, but this is not about me complaining about not having a rorqual boosts, this is about all the other people who wont have one and wont be able to plex their accounts with mining.
I COULD get rorqual boosts and I WOULD field one if i felt like doing it was worth it... if not, i can still fly vexor navy issues on 3-4 accounts for 200 million isk/hour and drop 4 subscriptions... a workaround, but probably one that makes the game more boring for me and everyone who comes by, trying to get a nice killmail...


so please give me more of your intelligent explanations of how this boosting system is going to bring more people into the industrial sector of eve :D:D:D:D

gosh, sometimes people are so narrow minded -.-


Did I say that eve should not be equal for you?

No, stop with your overblown ego, not everything is about you.

All those faceless miners that you're white knighting for don't get equality as a privilege either ( though I doubt you're such a good person that you're fighting for them anyway)

If they can't plex without bringing a rorqual on grid either: tough **** for them too.

You realise that what you're trying to propose is that you want rorqual boosts to either be available to everyone (at no risk) or to no-one?

Do you realise this will have absolutely 0 (ZERO) effect on an average miners ability to plex? If everyone gets the same increase or reduction to their income, all you've done is shifted some numbers around and prices will shift to match.

If it's so hard to plex through the industrial sector of eve, that means that that particular part of the economy is saturated and therefore only people who literally drool on their keyboard would want to enter it.

You need less people, not more.

Art of Explosions
Laurens Punani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1212 - 2016-09-13 17:15:23 UTC
you, my friend, are mistaken :D

every single one of us wants more paying customers.... i dont think i have to explain how more people make the game more interesting and more money gives ccp more possibilities to improve our experience even further.

right now it is possible for most people to plex an account while they are mining, mostly because they can mine just as much as the people in deep sov-null... they might have to get safe more oftern, and they might lose more ships, but still, mining is a feasable way of playing eve.

if one group of players can get much more reward for the same amount of work and even less risk, how do you think this is going to change? Big alliances get bigger, small ones get smaller and tiny groups of industrialists can **** off because they cant compete.

remove the yield/cycle time buff und the income will roughly stay the same... (you cant tell me more than 5% of the minerals on the market were mined without boosts :D)(big industrialists would still field rorquals, just because they dont want to move their ships while cycling an ore anomaly in nullsec)

+ finding a small group of miners with a small boosting ship sounds pretty nice for a roaming gang. only finding them deep in, lets say, PL space, kind of sucks, doesn't it?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1213 - 2016-09-13 17:45:01 UTC
Laurens Punani wrote:
you, my friend, are mistaken :D

every single one of us wants more paying customers.... i dont think i have to explain how more people make the game more interesting and more money gives ccp more possibilities to improve our experience even further.

right now it is possible for most people to plex an account while they are mining, mostly because they can mine just as much as the people in deep sov-null... they might have to get safe more oftern, and they might lose more ships, but still, mining is a feasable way of playing eve.

if one group of players can get much more reward for the same amount of work and even less risk, how do you think this is going to change? Big alliances get bigger, small ones get smaller and tiny groups of industrialists can **** off because they cant compete.

remove the yield/cycle time buff und the income will roughly stay the same... (you cant tell me more than 5% of the minerals on the market were mined without boosts :D)(big industrialists would still field rorquals, just because they dont want to move their ships while cycling an ore anomaly in nullsec)

+ finding a small group of miners with a small boosting ship sounds pretty nice for a roaming gang. only finding them deep in, lets say, PL space, kind of sucks, doesn't it?


We want more paying customers correct, we can agree on this point.

I don't want them to be mining though, we quite clearly already have a plentiful mineral supply and more stuff needs to blow up rather than mining surplus minerals causing industry to often come at a loss.

What do you think is more harmful for new industrialists, getting less ore than an established 1000 man alliance with super capital support or making a net profit of 1000 isk per item they produce?

It seems you don't understand what you've been told earlier. EVE IS NOT FAIR. Burn these words into your mind and recall them every time you decide to type something about one group of people being more privileged than the others.

That super coalition was not gifted sov and thousands of members by CCP, they had to work for it ( how much is up to debate but it's still work) and every advantage they have is earned through effort.

What the **** is the point of all of the above when some guy in some corner of npcs null in a covetor can make as much as someone in sovereign held space. It would be pointless to hold control over an area of space as that's the whole point of sovreignty: you control an area of space to take advantage of its resources.

I don't understand your last hypothetical situation either. How would you even get into deep PL space without already being blown up before you got anywhere near their miners? Wormholes come to mind but that's a different mechanic and you can bet your bottom dollar that if a rorqual is tackled it will have a cyno nearby and at least 4 supers and a Titan ready to jump to it

Art of Explosions
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1214 - 2016-09-13 17:50:07 UTC
to add to what saterine said right now with rorqs i can remember as a 3 month old corp we were already exploiting the uses of orcas for mining because we could just put up a pos and sit the rorq in there. THREE MONTHS and we were already using the end game mining booster

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Resa Moon
New Eden Miners Association
Interplay
#1215 - 2016-09-13 18:48:21 UTC
Abadayos wrote:
Resa Moon wrote:
Abadayos wrote:
As a null sec miner that usually boosts the fleet in my rorq, I will keep on boosting the fleet when required, in my rorq, in the belt.

Here is the reasoning why it's virtually risk free if you set up right:
- If your mining in a fleet, people nearby are ratting too, usually in the same system or 2 jumps out
- your mining location should already of been picked because it is isolated/doesn't see much traffic in the first place.
- cynos...your mining in null, you have access to a metric crapton of 'big toys'...your using a capital already so production is there.
- comms or scouts
- intel channels, again..or scouts
- a max tank fit on your rorq, you can get over 4 million EHP quite easily, enough buffer for FAX's to jump in and rep you
- eventual PANIC button for 5 minutes to get your crap together if you messed up.


If you have that sort of set-up, which any decent nullsec alliance has by default, then you should be pretty much perfectly safe. The only way you can really get screwed is via a WH spewing out a crapton of T3's, but you will have a cyno handy and a PANIC immunity for 5 minutes so you have time to react, even as local spikes with 60+ T3's with your destruction on their mind. Jump in carriers, FAXs and go to town, if it is 60+ T3's...your boned either way really unless you have BFG titans and you have the PANIC up so your immune to the DD damage, they clear tackle..and most of anything else on field, your PANIC drops, you jump out and your mining ships bugger off to your local citadel and you take out apocs (or ship of choice for hole rolling) and roll the hole. Job done.

Sure you will loose stuff, but ah well. In that situation you would loose ships anyways



Or put another way, anom mining in a Rorq is perfectly safe, in a perfect world.


No-where did I say it was perfectly safe. What I was saying was with a good group and organization the risks are greatly reduced and when the worst should happen you already have in place contingency plans (ratting carriers/supers/titans..the cyno, being near your ratters and some people like to have FAX alts logged in just incase a cap/super gets tackled.

In a perfect world, your Rorqual is perfectly safe docked up in an NPC station and your account un-subbed to further prevent the loss of the rorqual..but that's hardly perfect now is it?


The point is that nullsec mining is also a few miners wanting to hit the anoms when the alliance is away or asleep. This proposal moves nullsec mining from the ability of impromptu improv to requiring a Broadway production. Obviously it would be "safer" on Broadway.

New Eden Mining Blog
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1216 - 2016-09-13 18:55:13 UTC
Resa Moon wrote:
[

The point is that nullsec mining is also a few miners wanting to hit the anoms when the alliance is away or asleep. This proposal moves nullsec mining from the ability of impromptu improv to requiring a Broadway production. Obviously it would be "safer" on Broadway.



and you can still do that but you may need to do it with fewer boosts or start recruiting for your alliances slower TZs

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Donmadefy
Fuxi Legion
Fraternity.
#1217 - 2016-09-13 18:58:03 UTC
How will these nerfs help solo or small gangs?

You say this is being implemented to help them compete. But I find it directly effecting single players with boosting alt. Why do you keep making the solo players obsolete. I do not wish to conform with your blob warfare crud.

If your nerf one of the only advantages a single player has to compete with the blob. Then whats the point of that.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1218 - 2016-09-13 19:06:45 UTC
Donmadefy wrote:
How will these nerfs help solo or small gangs?

You say this is being implemented to help them compete. But I find it directly effecting single players with boosting alt. Why do you keep making the solo players obsolete. I do not wish to conform with your blob warfare crud.

If your nerf one of the only advantages a single player has to compete with the blob. Then whats the point of that.



It will definitely help solo players. They will be able to fight people without thinking they are just throwing away ships to someone with a boosting alt.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1219 - 2016-09-13 19:11:47 UTC
Donmadefy wrote:
How will these nerfs help solo or small gangs?

You say this is being implemented to help them compete. But I find it directly effecting single players with boosting alt. Why do you keep making the solo players obsolete. I do not wish to conform with your blob warfare crud.

If your nerf one of the only advantages a single player has to compete with the blob. Then whats the point of that.


because now not everyone will have a boosting alt hiding in system so it is no longer something everyone needs. it harder now for an alt to fill the role so you need to give it to a pilot that may be better used in dps/tackle/logi/e-war


not only that but you can now split fleets away from their booster


also if you have a boosting alt you're not solo

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#1220 - 2016-09-13 20:01:22 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Donmadefy wrote:
How will these nerfs help solo or small gangs?

You say this is being implemented to help them compete. But I find it directly effecting single players with boosting alt. Why do you keep making the solo players obsolete. I do not wish to conform with your blob warfare crud.

If your nerf one of the only advantages a single player has to compete with the blob. Then whats the point of that.


because now not everyone will have a boosting alt hiding in system so it is no longer something everyone needs. it harder now for an alt to fill the role so you need to give it to a pilot that may be better used in dps/tackle/logi/e-war


not only that but you can now split fleets away from their booster


also if you have a boosting alt you're not solo



A solo player could have 10 accounts, he's still a solo player.