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agreed no industrialist wants this

While I seriously doubt the 'sky is falling' and a noticeable number of miners are going to disappear because their risk-free boosts are going away, I think part of this flood of whining and panic would have been avoided if these boosts were released alongside the Drilling Platform. That structure has to do something, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it could offset some or all of the reduction in yield some miners may take from the boosting change. Besides, any general hit to yield will mean an increase in ore prices meaning efficient miners will be making the same, if not more ISK/h than before.

There is still a lot of time until November for a devblog detailing how the Drilling Platform is going to work. I suggest all the miners out there worried over this change take a deep breath, calm down, and wait and see how this new mining infrastructure plays out before doing anything rash.

Lets say you want to make a few billion isk per month to have enough money for pvp, injectors and some new shiny ships. Lets say you can play 8 hours per week (you do have job and stuff...)

Just so you can compare how much a miner actualla makes while only playing 32 hours per month:

A miner with 12 Accounts, fielding 8-10b of assets makes as much as:

A carrierpilot, ratting (fielding less than 2b and being able to shoot back)

A ratter with 2 AFK ishtars, fielding 500m isk

If you extract SP and sell them in Jita you would only need 6 or 7 miners, fielding 5b, but hey... risk vs reward does REALLY not work out for a casual gamer :D

'Casual' gamer is the definition of person who buys PLEX with RL money, sells it and has fun in his play time.
Person who creates and maintains 12 accounts at the same time, and spends his available time mining (to make money for pvp) cannot be called 'casual'. It's quite the opposite.

Then you better start building a few more.

As a null sec miner that usually boosts the fleet in my rorq, I will keep on boosting the fleet when required, in my rorq, in the belt.

Here is the reasoning why it's virtually risk free if you set up right:
- If your mining in a fleet, people nearby are ratting too, usually in the same system or 2 jumps out
- your mining location should already of been picked because it is isolated/doesn't see much traffic in the first place.
- cynos...your mining in null, you have access to a metric crapton of 'big toys'...your using a capital already so production is there.
- comms or scouts
- intel channels, again..or scouts
- a max tank fit on your rorq, you can get over 4 million EHP quite easily, enough buffer for FAX's to jump in and rep you
- eventual PANIC button for 5 minutes to get your crap together if you messed up.


If you have that sort of set-up, which any decent nullsec alliance has by default, then you should be pretty much perfectly safe. The only way you can really get screwed is via a WH spewing out a crapton of T3's, but you will have a cyno handy and a PANIC immunity for 5 minutes so you have time to react, even as local spikes with 60+ T3's with your destruction on their mind. Jump in carriers, FAXs and go to town, if it is 60+ T3's...your boned either way really unless you have BFG titans and you have the PANIC up so your immune to the DD damage, they clear tackle..and most of anything else on field, your PANIC drops, you jump out and your mining ships bugger off to your local citadel and you take out apocs (or ship of choice for hole rolling) and roll the hole. Job done.

Sure you will loose stuff, but ah well. In that situation you would loose ships anyways

Finished trolling yet?

In HS it'll make very little difference as you always see Orca's on grid anyway...I'd just carry on regardless.

In low/null though it's a different story, put out a nice juicy target and try to defend it with a single account? And halve your income that you need to sell or use for manufacturing.

Or just don't bother anymore? Not everyone is in massive alliances or have their own defense fleet. I'm talking about a small guy, try getting some reading comprehension...he will always lose out with these changes.

BULLSHIT

Mining is the only PVE profession in which 50% of your income depends on boost/having a boosting char

forcing every single miner in eve to get a boosting ship and even forcing them on grid is the biggest nerf you could possibly throw at the industrial part of the game. I personally think its okay to bring expensive ships on grid, but just imagine the shitstorm if you cut all ratting income by 50%, unless you anchor an ESS that can only be shared every 5 minutes, but gets a panic button that locks all the ratters in place and disables their weapons.... PL would not care since they can just jump in 10 titans that always wanted to use their doomsday, but i am pretty sure that isk generation by ratting would concentrate even more on such big entities and others would just start doing incursions....

would you call THAT the best time to be a ratting-carrier pilot?


EDIT: If they remove sieging from the indu core i would even say you are not completely bonkers, but until we get the next dev-blog you should probably assume things are changing for the worse... i really hope that i am wrong, but noone should rejoice before we even know WHAT they are changing for industriialists. If they keep all the bad parts of the current system and still force rorquals on grid, at least half of the miners would earn a lot less or even stop mining while big entities would earn shittons of money

We have Command Destroyers now we can use, albeit with a lot less boost and bugger all fitting room.

What we'll have after is a lot of redundant Rorqs and Orcas in a lot of areas(and redundant skills), yes we have the Porpoise coming, I'm just not holding out a lot of hope for it.

Yes I'll have to suck up the changes and the nerf, but that doesn't mean I'll have to like it.

"Forcing".

You instantly lost the debate right there. Who forces what? Did a clown car of CCP devs drive to your house in the middle of the night, force you to boot your computer, log into EvE, and warp a Roq to a belt? No? Well, what's the forcing involved then? You aren't forced to do a single thing. You can mine perfectly fine without boosts. You can use an Orca or a Porpoise. You can risk the Roq or decide against it. You can also quit mining and go to a more profitable profession at any time.

You can try to form a league of miners that charge more for their minerals. You can try to convince traders at Jita to up their prices. You can take part in the ganking of highsec miners, or hunting nullsec ones. You can increase demand for your minerals by helping blow stuff up or decreasing supply.

But what you can't do, is assume or demand CCP give you all the isk in the world because your profession is some special snowflake. You get M^3 and bring it to market, by whatever means you have available. Players set the prices. CCP could double your yields and you'd still end up with the same isk at the end of the day because what you mine is important only in regards to other sources of mineral income and mineral destruction. Everything else balances itself out.

If Isk were tremendously harder to get, by your example, prices would drop due to a dearth of circulating isk in the economy. That includes, especially, your precious minerals. When isk is easy to get, like now, prices rise due to the lack of scarcity of the currency. You'd recognize those concepts as inflation and deflation, obviously tremendously simplified for this discussion.

You're comparing the generation of currency, to the generation of a resource that only has value relative to the currency. Apples and oranges.


Also, last I checked, CCP did nerf nullsec bounties to encourage use of the ESS. Not 50%, granted, but it did happen. People complained then, too. Then they adapted. In due time, you will adapt, and the discussion will no longer be about your persecution complex.

Oh and I'm positive ratters, especially capitals, would rejoice if they had a panic button they could use to buy time for reinforcements to arrive. The difference is the crowd of people in combat ships expect losses, work together for support and backup, etc. Maybe you should try that? Don't mine where you can't expect backup, don't field assets you and your friends can't defend, and learn from your mistakes. Every carrier ratter that gets caught and killed made those mistakes and paid for it with their multi-billion-isk assets, why should you be immune from it?