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Dev blog: Command Bursts and the New World of Fleet Boosting

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Author
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#81 - 2016-08-29 16:54:48 UTC
Alright, I'm not hitting the panic button or anything (or the EvE is dying bandwagon) - but you took a legitimate issue (off grid boosting) and brought it on grid.

The concept I like. The execution does make me want to beat my head against a wall.
1. Range - my big problem here is the range. I don't understand why there's an issue pushing it out to 200km or grid. I mean; this really kind of fucks the purpose of most command ships. Other than an eos sitting at 0 on a wormhole, or a vulture in a bunch of slipper petes (nullsec you still use those bastards?) There just isn't a point. I guess you can have a command ship as part of your gate camp now. Throw a couple remote sebos in the midslots since you won't need the extra link space.

2. No passive bonuses. Alright, kind of crappy. They didn't seem particularly overpowered, but ok.

3. Ammo - This kind of seems like ****. Here's why. I trained an alt for 8 months to be a perfect boosting t3/command ship pilot. He's generally off grid for PVE, and on grid for PVP (wormhole stuff). I have no issue bringing him on grid - but it kind of borks his purpose when I have to reload and carry ammo. I'm not a huge fan of this change.

Let me throw something at you - 'we like to make small changes so that we can be directionally correct' - I remember someone at ccp saying that small changes are better when it comes to balances. It feels like you just threw the hammer out on this one. There should have been some kind of discussion because while I DO NOT like off grid links - their revised form just seems awful.

Seriously though, you guys need to get your **** together. Citadels were a huge ******* letdown. 1 bil for something with no asset security (wormhole space) and the functionality of a ******* medium/small POS.

58ish km max range for boosts? What are these boosts for ants?
Alhira Katserna
Deep Space Exploration And Exploitation
#82 - 2016-08-29 16:56:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Vidork Drako wrote:
Its a very nice change because offgrid boost had no sense. Great job. Lol

Now a question who will come back again and again until we got an answer :

Q : Will you refund all SP currently allocated in Leadership skills?


Lets us know please. A simple yes or no will be enough.

No. The skills will all continue to exist (under slightly different names) and will impact the same type of gameplay, so there are no plans to refund any skills with this change.

Vidork Drako wrote:

Another question :
Q : I see you gave a weapon timer to booster, will they also receive a suspect time ?

Nope, just a weapons timer.


Tbh not refunding these skills is a kinda **** move. A lot of people only trained Leadership V some even Wing Command V only to pass on boosts under the current system. The majority of them won´t train booster skills once they´re changed and thus you leave them with an useless skill.
kate diver
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2016-08-29 16:57:40 UTC
will the boosting ships get the bonuses or will we be flying around in paper tanked command ships on gridShockedShockedShocked
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#84 - 2016-08-29 16:58:36 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Steroidastroid Ormand wrote:
1) 15km range is a joke? Aren't you forgetting a 0 at the end?


You're likely not factoring in the effect skills will have.


My calculations give me 61.2km range for an all 5s command ship, 91.8 for Carrier/FAX/Titan/Rorqual
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#85 - 2016-08-29 16:59:57 UTC
Drazz Caylen wrote:
>> Although probing down and catching off-grid boosters under the current system is possible and can be very powerful...
Sorry for getting offtopic right off the bat, but this only works on the principle thinking that the booster is an alt account where the player only runs one monitor in case the ship always remains stationary. There are too many possibilities for people who run software and hardware solutions which makes early notification of combat probes possible without going into the botting and scripting category. In short; the moment you see probes on d-scan, you warp away. There is no way for an attentive player to get caught by combat probes if s/he isn't already engaged otherwise and is not in a huge and clunky ship that isn't already pre-aligned. This is an inherent problem with combat probes which I hope to see addressed in the future.


It's actually not hard at all to catch a dual boxed OGB if you have level 5 sills, virtue implants and a brain.

Not today spaghetti.

Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#86 - 2016-08-29 17:01:11 UTC

Remember the part of the DevBlog that mentioned the new Porpoise Industrial Command Ship? I'm will to bet that's going to be a BC sized ship that can fit Mining Foreman Links. I'm willing to bet they already expected Orca spam to be untenable and that's why they're adding a new ship to balance that out.

Obvioulsy that's 100% speculation, but why else would they need to add another Industrial Command Ship?[/quote]
They said already that we're getting an ORE battlecruiser (cost ~40 to 50 million) for exactly that reason.[/quote]
Ah, thanks for the info![/quote]


I thought the changes infer that they are getting rid of Mining Foreman Links, so you'll only get these.

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Yogsoloth
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#87 - 2016-08-29 17:01:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Yogsoloth
Hindsight will reveal this change as one of the final nails sealing the end of EVE.

The cancelation of all these secondary accounts used for boosting will not help EVE's bottom line.

The changes will not bring any old players back and as such will have zero positive affects on subscription numbers.

These changes will have little to no effect on large scale warfare, these engagements have more than enough people to have designated on-grid links.

This change will have a negative effect on small gang and solo (single person) pvp. Small gangs dont have enough dedicated people to designate some1 for on-grid boosts, and solo players won't be able to compete or skirmish with a small group without a way to help level the field. These fights will be dumbed down to whoever has more people will win.

I understand CCP only cares about large fights that grab headlines, but I expect solo pvp to continue it's downward spiral, as these changes force everyone into fleets to compete.

I expect a number of these solo or small gang enthusiasts to also cancel accounts. All in all, this change will net a significant loss and cancelation of subscriptions and hurt EVE's overall bottom line.

But hooray that all the carebears will have to find new reasons to cry over their losses.

That's something at least...
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#88 - 2016-08-29 17:01:59 UTC
List of OP things that need to be nerfed for fair and balanced gameplay.

- Off grid boosts. Obvious P2W.
- Tankable/repairable on grid boosters. It is just not fair that the fleet with enough alpha can destroy the other team's booster.
- Drugs, implants, faction mods. These are just slightly less obvious P2W strategies. It is not fair to poor people either.
- Multiple accounts. People with more than one account can make too much isk per tick, compared to those without.
- Suicide ganking. It's just not fair that they can prepare and execute a gank, before the victim is able to react.
- Fleets. In order to ensure that fights are always fair and balanced, all fleet fights must now be conducted within the arena setting using a point system to ensure that nobody can have a better fleet comp.
- Gangs. This is not fair to the soloer. 2v1? That's like having an off grid booster. Must designate locations that only allow a maximum of two people to enter in order to provide fair and balanced game play. In addition, must provide locations that only allow 2v2, 3v3, etc in order to provide the most balanced fights possible.
- Svipul, RLML, Gila, Orthrus. It is simply not fair that these ships and mods can do everything better.

Can of worms opened.
Hypocrisy noted.
Rant over.
Espen Onzo
Mirage.
#89 - 2016-08-29 17:02:32 UTC
Dear CCP

My only adresse to this matter is simply in the realm of faction warfare, how does one fleet booster boost his fleet in a say medium size plex. PLZ do not answer with command destroyers because you are going to add a extra question mark of viability to fleet fighting in medium size plexes, simply on the basis that command destroyers just dont have the ehp to survive a cruiser size fleet fight.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2016-08-29 17:02:35 UTC
While under the effect of the Rorqual super weapon, will you be able to move at all or will you be stationary?

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Lamajagarn McMyra
State War Academy
Caldari State
#91 - 2016-08-29 17:03:05 UTC
This looks like a nice change and i do belive it will help further balance the game. As it is pretty much a complete overhaul of the mechanic an sp refund would be highly apreciated by those of us not commonly engaging in situations where this new mechanic would be feasible. Blink
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#92 - 2016-08-29 17:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Vidork Drako wrote:
Its a very nice change because offgrid boost had no sense. Great job. Lol

Now a question who will come back again and again until we got an answer :

Q : Will you refund all SP currently allocated in Leadership skills?


Lets us know please. A simple yes or no will be enough.

No. The skills will all continue to exist (under slightly different names) and will impact the same type of gameplay, so there are no plans to refund any skills with this change.

Vidork Drako wrote:

Another question :
Q : I see you gave a weapon timer to booster, will they also receive a suspect time ?

Nope, just a weapons timer.


THAT is a total load of crap. Youre taking a passive bonus set of skills (a rather investment intensive set at that) and turning it into a set of skills that require active module usage to perform any function whatsoever. I would go out on a limb and say a MASSIVE percentage of the population has these skills trained at the moment and benefit from them and after these changes the vast majority of them will never see usage or benefit from these skills ever again. Could you try just a little bit harder to farm your players for $ from skill extractors because this move isn't obvious enough.

Daemun of Khanid

MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#93 - 2016-08-29 17:04:30 UTC
Alhira Katserna wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Vidork Drako wrote:
Its a very nice change because offgrid boost had no sense. Great job. Lol

Now a question who will come back again and again until we got an answer :

Q : Will you refund all SP currently allocated in Leadership skills?


Lets us know please. A simple yes or no will be enough.

No. The skills will all continue to exist (under slightly different names) and will impact the same type of gameplay, so there are no plans to refund any skills with this change.

Vidork Drako wrote:

Another question :
Q : I see you gave a weapon timer to booster, will they also receive a suspect time ?

Nope, just a weapons timer.


Tbh not refunding these skills is a kinda **** move. A lot of people only trained Leadership V some even Wing Command V only to pass on boosts under the current system. The majority of them won´t train booster skills once they´re changed and thus you leave them with an useless skill.

It's only useless if they NEVER in all their time in EVE ever try to use Command Bursts, which seems kinda unlikely.

I trained my Leadership skills solely for the passive bonuses, and now that they'll be bonusing Command Bursts I'm actually now training this character for Command Destroyers so I can start using them.

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Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#94 - 2016-08-29 17:04:35 UTC
One thing I think you should add this is a mod similar to the super remote burst modules. I would be nice if super-carriers also had the niche of being able to boost a fleet at range on grid. The code is in place already all you need is to make the mods.
Inslander Wessette
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#95 - 2016-08-29 17:05:37 UTC
why won't command ships have 200% range boost ? i think command ships should be the top dogs on range and power since they are going to be primary anyway. Isn't it how its now ?

ccpls increase from 100 to 200 %
Aries Skyguard
Red Branch
#96 - 2016-08-29 17:05:53 UTC
CCP I think you need to combine the link types into 1 module, else this will be terrible. What I mean is:

Currently you have 3 type of armor, shield, info, skirmish and mining links.
for example:
There are the link that increases all armor resistances.
The one that reduces cycle time and capacitor use for local and remote armor repairers.
And the last one that increases armor hitpoints.

I think you need to combine all of the type effects into the one single module so that, that one module applies all of that type of bonuses.
So for example you only need 1 armor warfare link to apply all of the armor boosts.

Obviously this would be needed for all of the 5 different types of links, although I'm not sure about mining links as I haven't used them before myself.

It would free up a lot of high slots and potentially rig slots.
Reduce the amount of fittig usage the warfare links requires, making the command ship pilots not having to dedicate to either damage or tank.

And over all I don't think it will make the links stronger that they are now, but it would make the boosting experience a lot better for that guy that are gonna put, ALL his time into managing his links during a fight.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#97 - 2016-08-29 17:08:58 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Drazz Caylen wrote:
>> Although probing down and catching off-grid boosters under the current system is possible and can be very powerful...
Sorry for getting offtopic right off the bat, but this only works on the principle thinking that the booster is an alt account where the player only runs one monitor in case the ship always remains stationary. There are too many possibilities for people who run software and hardware solutions which makes early notification of combat probes possible without going into the botting and scripting category. In short; the moment you see probes on d-scan, you warp away. There is no way for an attentive player to get caught by combat probes if s/he isn't already engaged otherwise and is not in a huge and clunky ship that isn't already pre-aligned. This is an inherent problem with combat probes which I hope to see addressed in the future.


It's actually not hard at all to catch a dual boxed OGB if you have level 5 sills, virtue implants and a brain.

That last part is problematic for the normal line member ape.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Steroidastroid Ormand
#98 - 2016-08-29 17:09:50 UTC
Irregessa wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Steroidastroid Ormand wrote:
1) 15km range is a joke? Aren't you forgetting a 0 at the end?


You're likely not factoring in the effect skills will have.


My calculations give me 61.2km range for an all 5s command ship, 91.8 for Carrier/FAX/Titan/Rorqual


So? I can repeat that 150km should be the minimum range, IMHO...
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#99 - 2016-08-29 17:10:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'm really excited that we're finally this close to such a highly anticipated feature rework! After so many discussions with so many of you about what the new system needs, we're finally almost here.


Super links should be stronger than carrier links, carrier links in general should be as strong if not stronger than t3 links (jack of all trades master of none) and I think Command dessie links should (as a dedicated t2 specialist craft) be stronger than t3 links.

Also the mod you're replacing the passive titan bonus with, we can't think of any one specific situation where we'd ever swap out a module on our titan for something that is beneficial to the enemy, probably want to go back to the drawing board. Every slot on a titan currently is like, at max value, there aren't any you'd trade from anywhere to anywhere so expecting Titan pilots to want to drop a mod from any slot at all to give a buff to the enemy fleet is silly


Overall I like the changes, I just feel theres some spots that could use some help and or dont make sense

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Malakye Appleton
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2016-08-29 17:10:14 UTC
Now is a good time for Skill Extractor speculation.
I'm in!

Living the dream, one tear at a time...