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[September] Mining Barge and Exhumer tweaks

First post
Author
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2016-08-23 10:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Elyia Suze Nagala
Alexis Ford wrote:
So the only reason to train Exhumer to 5 will be for more shild resistances only ?

Sorry but thats not EVE ... who in Highsec would ever invest 30days of training with no reason ?

If you realy want to shift the use from Mackinaw to Hulk/Skiff there should be a real benefit from it.

Excample suggestions for Exhumer:
+3% CPU or/and
+3% Powergrid or/and
-3% of miningcrystal Damage

Increasing Orehold with each level.
Mackinaw should reach the 35k with Exhumer @L5
Skiff and Hulk will recieve 1k more each Level starting with their current Orecargo Value.

shortly said ... give Hulk/Skiff some "sexiness".
I the original suggested change these are mostly "choose your skin" :)


The Hulk still has a yield increase. And even if It were only 2% miners would still train it, because that 2% matters in the long run to most people.

I'm going to guess the Skiff will still be a "tank" barge. There in lies its role and why it won't be as "sexy".
Gaius Clabbacus
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2016-08-23 10:29:44 UTC
Clear and straightforward. Skiffs and Procurers can now fit a cyno while only being half obvious about it too.
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2016-08-23 10:31:07 UTC
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
I'd imagine other stats will be coming soon, but I'm curious to know what the plans are on volumes and mass, etc. How are those changing. It sounds like the hulls will be quite similar, but functional different.

Again, I know the numbers will come out later, but can you give a general statement about how you plan to adjust these.


Oh I knew I was forgetting something yesterday. Velocity and agility too. How are they being altered (concerns about align times being affected).
Alexis Ford
Good Names All Gone
#64 - 2016-08-23 10:35:46 UTC
Oh sorry i missread --- only the rolebonus gets deleted.

Thought the Exhumer "Mining" Bonus was affected too.

but still my suggestion stands ... make Skiff/Hulk sexy.
Dont doom the Mackinaw just make the other more usable thorugh skilling (Fitting, Cargo, Crystal damage etc.)
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#65 - 2016-08-23 10:38:13 UTC
Glad to see you are leaving the tank of the skiff and procurer where they are, we were getting concerned that all the whining by gankers would have got to you. i like having two mining lasers on the Skiff and like the look of the new models a lot.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2016-08-23 11:10:39 UTC
Hulk and Mack:

Cant use the slots they have due to not enough CPU, they require a mod/rig/implants to actually fit. Tank is fairly poor not becaue of the base stats but because of the lack of slots, CPU and powergrid.

Covetor and retriever:

1 mid and 3 lows does not a good ship make. Zero fitting room on them simply due to the lack of slots let alone, this makes then fodder to anything.

skiff and procuror:

Overtanked for their class (battleship base tank on a cruiser sized hull) means they effectively invalidate the other 4 barges.

All together this barge change is making all the same mistake that last two made. We need a radical rethink.


Skiff and proc should get their base hp brought back down to normal levels, keep the combat bonus to drones, get a few more slots and fitting room to open up options and allow for a decent combat fit. They are now perfect mining escorts/defence boats for both fleet work and solo.

Retriever and mackinaw both need a good deal more slots and CPU/PG so they can actually have options when fitting them. CCP need to get creative here so I would say go radical. Give them two utility highs and a small bonus to remote shield boosters. Alter the cap to compensate. Again, they need the ability to actually fit a decent setup, 1 mid and 3 lows are next to useless.

Covetor and Hulk should be the go to strip miners, they also need more fitting slots and CPU/PG to actually fit things.

I would also alter the cargo expanders to also impact the ore hold and reduce the hold on barges to compensate. All barges would be able to hold at least two cycles as a base with the option of improving that if they so wish.

T1 barges need fitting slots and CPU/PG on par with cruisers with similar potential defenses.

T2 need to have fitting slots and cpu/pg somewhere between force recons and heavy assault ships with similar potential defenses.

One of the oldest complaints about mining is how boring it is so lets inject some fun into it. Lets have mining fleets that can defend themselves rather than have miners forever relegated to prey and victims. Lets have miners able to support eachother and fend off a small gang that attacks them, let mining have actual skill involved ranther than everyone picking the skiff because it have a big base tank and mining AFK all day. Give miners content.
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
#67 - 2016-08-23 11:30:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Hulk and Mack:

Cant use the slots they have due to not enough CPU, they require a mod/rig/implants to actually fit. Tank is fairly poor not becaue of the base stats but because of the lack of slots, CPU and powergrid.

Covetor and retriever:

1 mid and 3 lows does not a good ship make. Zero fitting room on them simply due to the lack of slots let alone, this makes then fodder to anything.

skiff and procuror:

Overtanked for their class (battleship base tank on a cruiser sized hull) means they effectively invalidate the other 4 barges.

All together this barge change is making all the same mistake that last two made. We need a radical rethink.


Skiff and proc should get their base hp brought back down to normal levels, keep the combat bonus to drones, get a few more slots and fitting room to open up options and allow for a decent combat fit. They are now perfect mining escorts/defence boats for both fleet work and solo.

Retriever and mackinaw both need a good deal more slots and CPU/PG so they can actually have options when fitting them. CCP need to get creative here so I would say go radical. Give them two utility highs and a small bonus to remote shield boosters. Alter the cap to compensate. Again, they need the ability to actually fit a decent setup, 1 mid and 3 lows are next to useless.

Covetor and Hulk should be the go to strip miners, they also need more fitting slots and CPU/PG to actually fit things.

I would also alter the cargo expanders to also impact the ore hold and reduce the hold on barges to compensate. All barges would be able to hold at least two cycles as a base with the option of improving that if they so wish.

T1 barges need fitting slots and CPU/PG on par with cruisers with similar potential defenses.

T2 need to have fitting slots and cpu/pg somewhere between force recons and heavy assault ships with similar potential defenses.

One of the oldest complaints about mining is how boring it is so lets inject some fun into it. Lets have mining fleets that can defend themselves rather than have miners forever relegated to prey and victims. Lets have miners able to support eachother and fend off a small gang that attacks them, let mining have actual skill involved ranther than everyone picking the skiff because it have a big base tank and mining AFK all day. Give miners content.



personally I don't think that BB tank on cruiser sized ship is that bad - considering that ship already have severly limited offensive capabilities

as for all mining barges receiving fitting possibilities of combat cruiers....
I disagree - they are mining barges, not combat fighters - as fro miner fleets being able to defend themselves - the single barge type in a role of escort barge would be good thing actually for that... of wait we have that one already....
Amarisen Gream
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Digital Vendetta
#68 - 2016-08-23 11:33:51 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Anoron Secheh wrote:
What about changes to the Rorqual and Orca?


Changes to the Rorqual and Orca are currently planned for November (rather than September for these mining barge changes). We'll be discussing those more as we get a bit closer.



You're killing me Fozzie. the Orca and the Rorqual are what I wanna hear about.

Could you at least tease us with the Orca? please. pretty please.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2016-08-23 11:41:17 UTC
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:



personally I don't think that BB tank on cruiser sized ship is that bad - considering that ship already have severly limited offensive capabilities


It gets that tank from the base stats, under my plan you still get an 80k tank with (t2 mods) only now you have to actually fit it. There is nothing balanced with the way the skiffs tank works, no other subcap works that way.
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:


as for all mining barges receiving fitting possibilities of combat cruiers....
I disagree - they are mining barges, not combat fighters - as fro miner fleets being able to defend themselves - the single barge type in a role of escort barge would be good thing actually for that... of wait we have that one already....


We have a logi barge already? where? Also where is the escort miner?

There isn't any. The barges as they are can't defend themselves from anything right now. Hell, 4 of them either cant fit much of a defense or fit any defense at all.
HarlyQ
harlyq syrokos investment station
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2016-08-23 11:43:05 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Anoron Secheh wrote:
What about changes to the Rorqual and Orca?


Changes to the Rorqual and Orca are currently planned for November (rather than September for these mining barge changes). We'll be discussing those more as we get a bit closer.



You're killing me Fozzie. the Orca and the Rorqual are what I wanna hear about.

Could you at least tease us with the Orca? please. pretty please.

Didnt you know the orca is being completely ignored. I mean why care about a crappy ore hold crappy cargo crappy agility i mean its just a crappy ship and no one should ever bother flying it. Unless they give it an ore hold of 2million m3.
Autism Intensifies
some random local shitlords
#71 - 2016-08-23 12:15:48 UTC
HarlyQ wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Anoron Secheh wrote:
What about changes to the Rorqual and Orca?


Changes to the Rorqual and Orca are currently planned for November (rather than September for these mining barge changes). We'll be discussing those more as we get a bit closer.



You're killing me Fozzie. the Orca and the Rorqual are what I wanna hear about.

Could you at least tease us with the Orca? please. pretty please.

Didnt you know the orca is being completely ignored. I mean why care about a crappy ore hold crappy cargo crappy agility i mean its just a crappy ship and no one should ever bother flying it. Unless they give it an ore hold of 2million m3.


That's why everyone wants details on the ships and some discussion, before CCP throws it on Sisi and it's basically written in stone :V
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2016-08-23 12:20:41 UTC
Am i the only one thinking: "Hmm now i can fit two neuts on my procurer" Lol
Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2016-08-23 12:28:34 UTC
Dehval wrote:
Kalido Raddi wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
A small nerf to the Covetor and Hulk?

OLD Covetor
3 * 1.25 (20% Duration MBV) = 3.75

NEW Covetor
2 * 1.25 (New Strip Miner Boost) = 2.5
* 1.33 (25% Duration Role Bonus) = 3.325
* 1.11 (10% Duration MBV) = 3.69

A small loss of 0.06 effective miners. I know you can fit a mining upgrade to offset this though with the extra slot.

No you can't; you don't have enough CPU ('cos CCP have decided that removing a Strip Miner means less CPU, but adding a Mining Laser Upgrade doesn't mean more CPU).

You can. Put on a T2 CPU rig (6m) and you can fit a basic barebones (t1) tank. It isn't great but that is the price you pay for 9% more yield. If you want both you are gonna have to bling, same as always.

Yeah yeah, I'll fit 3 Carpo MLUs - and while I'm at it I'll buy the new Hulk SKIN that paints a gigantic bullseye on the side of the ship.


One more thing - CCPlease could you change the MU series of implants from slot 10 to slot 8 and increase the values to 5/10/15%? That would make that implant set actually possibly see some use. Currently a 5% reduction in the CPU increase caused by Mining Upgrades is laughably insignificant, especially when it sits on the same slot as 5% yield. I'd love to know the stats on how many MU-1005s are implanted compared to MX-1005s.
Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
Goonswarm Federation
#74 - 2016-08-23 12:38:02 UTC
Echo Mande wrote:
While it doesn't 'need' it, I think that giving the Skiff a +1 or +2 warp core stability might be something to look at. It is billed as 'for hostile environments' after all.

I get where you are coming from, but... every Black Ops Hunter in Eve will just fit a faction scram, and the net result will be zero.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#75 - 2016-08-23 12:50:09 UTC
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
Am i the only one thinking: "Hmm now i can fit two neuts on my procurer" Lol


No, Baltec is way ahead of you there.
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
#76 - 2016-08-23 12:52:44 UTC
Hello Fozzie,

Can there be tieracide applied the mining crystals as well. Does mining really need sixteen variations?

Can ORE LP Store be obtainable through missioning within high-sec. Both SOE and Thukker are.

Is CCP happy about the lack of usage for the Prospect and Endurance?
virm pasuul
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2016-08-23 12:54:07 UTC
Can anyone explain why it's better to have the same number of mining slots on every barge?

I don't really care about the stats, but making them all look exactly the same seems pointless.
I like that each one looks differently and you can see at a distance from the beams which class of barge it is.

Usually change is promoted as fixing a problem or issue, or making an improvement, but there appears to be no reasoning behind this change :(
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#78 - 2016-08-23 13:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Well those are some really boring changes. I'd like to see some more interesting stuff for miners. D-scan immunity or a decloaking ping or mining fighters or a T3 barge which can switch between yield/capacity/defence. I guess you think this stuff is covered in November.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Erroch
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#79 - 2016-08-23 13:02:06 UTC
Hey Fozzie, while your team is tweaking these, can we get you all to let barges into medium FW sites?

It's something that's plagued my industrial fleets roaming through lowsec for years now.
Suitonia
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#80 - 2016-08-23 13:20:47 UTC
Autism Intensifies wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
A small nerf to the Covetor and Hulk?

OLD Covetor
3 * 1.25 (20% Duration MBV) = 3.75

NEW Covetor
2 * 1.25 (New Strip Miner Boost) = 2.5
* 1.33 (25% Duration Role Bonus) = 3.325
* 1.11 (10% Duration MBV) = 3.69

A small loss of 0.06 effective miners. I know you can fit a mining upgrade to offset this though with the extra slot.



It's 3.75, too. You get 3.69 because you multiply by 1.33 instead of dividing by 0.75 (you mean the same, but rounding fucks your values). Same for *1.11 instead of /0.9


Thanks for correcting me.

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