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A guide to taking planets

Author
Slayer Liberator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-08-21 02:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Slayer Liberator
If you try to take a planet with aggressive methods(a titan) there are 2 investments you should make
1. Deadspace/Officer hardeners
2.A FAX machine
These comparatively small investments would make it very hard (expensive) to take the planet back from you
Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#2 - 2016-08-21 02:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Neph
The Federation never took Home back, and we will, if the Winds permit, never have to do battle for Home again. Currently, the demilitarized planet is split almost evenly between Ishukone and corporate Gallente administration. While there is still conflict among the populations, we're closer to a real peace than in decades. As for your... points, the FAX had not been invented yet, and the Navy would never use pirate technology in any ship.

Hordling, your snarky and unwanted 'advice' does dishonor to the memory of Admiral Yanala, the crew of the Shiigeru and fleet, and all that died during the Highlander attack. Go back to your nullsec playground and stop trying to have an opinion on the State's business.

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2016-08-21 06:00:38 UTC
I believe at this point the Federation's probably sick of dealing with Caldari Prime. Otherwise they wouldn't just let Ishukone take the planet (after making sure they aren't going to get bitten in the arse and score a decent deal out of the exchange).

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#4 - 2016-08-21 07:09:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
As pointed out above already, Caldari Prime is still (partially) in Caldari hands. While the Gallente quickly took control of Caldari prime's orbit space, the resistance on the ground was far more fierce then expected, resulting in a truce after a few weeks.
Ever since, tensions between the State & Federation have lowered and we're closer on a road to peace then we ever were.

The Federation & Ishukone (being a core member of the State) have negotiated great solutions & trades so far regarding Caldari Prime.

- The Demilitarized Zone around Caldari Prime, guarded & maintained by Mordu's Angels, a group respected by both sides

- The Joint salvage operation of the Shiigeri. The wreckage lies in Gallente controlled territory,in the Kaalakiota Mointain range, a place that holds great spiritual importance to the Caldari people. To prevent any problems arising, the Gallente invited Ishukone to assist in the salvage operation

- The return of the old Caldari Capital to the State, under Ishukone control.
This remains one of the largest contributions to a lasting peace, as it was the last city left under Gallente influence.

- Last but not least: The joint reveal of the 'Operation Highlander' monument attended by high ranked officials on both sides and attended by capsuleers in space during the first year memorial service & celebration of the Caldari prime battle.

All these points show that State/Federation relations have been improving over the years. After all, the Caldari Prime situation was one of the largest roadblocks for peace in the past and now both sides have worked hard to turn the roadblock into a symbol of a future peace between the two super-powers.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Slayer Liberator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-08-21 08:11:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Slayer Liberator
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
As pointed out above already, Caldari Prime is still (partially) in Caldari hands. While the Gallente quickly took control of Caldari prime's orbit space, the resistance on the ground was far more fierce then expected, resulting in a truce after a few weeks.
Ever since, tensions between the State & Federation have lowered and we're closer on a road to peace then we ever were.

The Federation & Ishukone (being a core member of the State) have negotiated great solutions & trades so far regarding Caldari Prime.

- The Demilitarized Zone around Caldari Prime, guarded & maintained by Mordu's Angels, a group respected by both sides

- The Joint salvage operation of the Shiigeri. The wreckage lies in Gallente controlled territory,in the Kaalakiota Mointain range, a place that holds great spiritual importance to the Caldari people. To prevent any problems arising, the Gallente invited Ishukone to assist in the salvage operation

- The return of the old Caldari Capital to the State, under Ishukone control.
This remains one of the largest contributions to a lasting peace, as it was the last city left under Gallente influence.

- Last but not least: The joint reveal of the 'Operation Highlander' monument attended by high ranked officials on both sides and attended by capsuleers in space during the first year memorial service & celebration of the Caldari prime battle.

All these points show that State/Federation relations have been improving over the years. After all, the Caldari Prime situation was one of the largest roadblocks for peace in the past and now both sides have worked hard to turn the roadblock into a symbol of a future peace between the two super-powers.

Ok
I edited my OP to be a guide to taking planets aggressively
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-08-21 22:38:35 UTC
Neph wrote:
The Federation never took Home back, and we will, if the Winds permit, never have to do battle for Home again. Currently, the demilitarized planet is split almost evenly between Ishukone and corporate Gallente administration. While there is still conflict among the populations, we're closer to a real peace than in decades.

They though have invaded and occupied currently almost half of the planet. It is because of cowardice of Ishukone CEO such shameful display as this so called "demilitarized zone" is allowed. Every day, every second this "demilitarization" exists, it is an insult to all Caldari. It legalizes Gallente oppression in occupied by Federation territories.

There shall and WILL be another fight for Caldari Prime, when we will finally lift gallentean shackles from our Homeworld and kick all occupants out from our land with toilet brush! After all what gallenteans did to our planet, they have no right even to step their foot on our land. They must pay for their agression!

Death to Gallente occupants!
Glory to the State!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Slayer Liberator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-08-21 23:02:44 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Neph wrote:
The Federation never took Home back, and we will, if the Winds permit, never have to do battle for Home again. Currently, the demilitarized planet is split almost evenly between Ishukone and corporate Gallente administration. While there is still conflict among the populations, we're closer to a real peace than in decades.

They though have invaded and occupied currently almost half of the planet. It is because of cowardice of Ishukone CEO such shameful display as this so called "demilitarized zone" is allowed. Every day, every second this "demilitarization" exists, it is an insult to all Caldari. It legalizes Gallente oppression in occupied by Federation territories.

There shall and WILL be another fight for Caldari Prime, when we will finally lift gallentean shackles from our Homeworld and kick all occupants out from our land with toilet brush! After all what gallenteans did to our planet, they have no right even to step their foot on our land. They must pay for their agression!

Death to Gallente occupants!
Glory to the State!

If you are going to take Caldari Prime back that way will you take some of my advice
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-08-21 23:14:52 UTC
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Neph wrote:
The Federation never took Home back, and we will, if the Winds permit, never have to do battle for Home again. Currently, the demilitarized planet is split almost evenly between Ishukone and corporate Gallente administration. While there is still conflict among the populations, we're closer to a real peace than in decades.

They though have invaded and occupied currently almost half of the planet. It is because of cowardice of Ishukone CEO such shameful display as this so called "demilitarized zone" is allowed. Every day, every second this "demilitarization" exists, it is an insult to all Caldari. It legalizes Gallente oppression in occupied by Federation territories.

There shall and WILL be another fight for Caldari Prime, when we will finally lift gallentean shackles from our Homeworld and kick all occupants out from our land with toilet brush! After all what gallenteans did to our planet, they have no right even to step their foot on our land. They must pay for their agression!

Death to Gallente occupants!
Glory to the State!

If you are going to take Caldari Prime back that way will you take some of my advice

It will be a fight on land. You can't cleanse occupants out from the surface of our planet with a titan.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-08-22 03:54:14 UTC
Supercarriers are far better for taking planets or any ground offensive. They can operate in low orbit as a staging point for landing forces, are capable of carrying sufficient troops and vehicles to act as a spearhead for invasion, act far better in flotillas than Titans do, and their fighter wing is a far more effective offensive and defensive option than the massive and high collateral weapons of a titan.

If a city must be destroyed as a show of force, the smartbombs on any capital are a better option than the doomsday of a titan. Far more localized and controllable and capable of leaving the surrounding valuable landmass and biosphere intact. Having a Force Auxiliary in orbit is a mistake for what should be obvious reasons.

I speak from experience. Supercarriers are infinitely better for planetary invasion.

You should also know that no empire uses pirate modified equipment on their starships. For this reason as well as pilot and crew experience it is highly unlikely that a empire Supercapital can match the survivability or damage output of a capsuleer alliance super.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-08-22 04:42:28 UTC
I don't recall smartbombs having the range to hit the cities from orbit. Might as well launch surgical orbital bombardments on every defensive hardpoints then dump bombers, fighters and troopers on the city.

That or saturation orbital bombardment if you don't mind being labelled a war criminal.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#11 - 2016-08-22 05:05:33 UTC
You all seem to live far more interesting lives than I do.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-08-22 06:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Makoto Priano wrote:
You all seem to live far more interesting lives than I do.


Join the military, they say. See the universe they say.

Get hazed by seniors, I say.
Load bullets into everyone's magazines, I say.
Duct tape everything, I say.
Operate MTACs and draw all the fire, I say.
See lots of shite, I say.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#13 - 2016-08-22 08:58:10 UTC
I'm not sure I see the point of this. The Big Four aren't likely to be trying anything of the sort anytime soon, and even if they were, they have shown that they weren't, aren't, and won't be interested in looking to us for advice on anything.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-08-23 19:00:46 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
I don't recall smartbombs having the range to hit the cities from orbit. Might as well launch surgical orbital bombardments on every defensive hardpoints then dump bombers, fighters and troopers on the city.

That or saturation orbital bombardment if you don't mind being labelled a war criminal.


Orbital bombardment is best done from smaller ships such as destroyers and frigates but it is a mistake to think that orbital bombardment alone is sufficient to change control of a planet from a hostile entity to yours. Especially if you want to keep any of the infrastructure or population intact. Something that LR heavy fighters excel at is it precise strikes against hardened ground targets. A squadron of them in atmosphere is worth three destroyers in orbit and is far more capable at directing their own strikes than a destroyer that often requires a spotter.

If you smartbomb a city you have to position your ship directly over it, in atmo. Another reason why a Supercarrier is far better at it than a Titan, they have less mass to move, are nearly as difficult to down with ground based anti-orbit weaponry, are better able to defend themselves against in-atmo strikes, and the key reason is they are far less vulnerable to high-orbit > low-orbit attack. The range and power of the fighter screen is unmatched when it comes to buying time for the Supercapital to ascend out of atmosphere and leave the gravity well should it be ambushed. It is also does not lose much effectiveness by being at extreme low altitude and fighting a battle in orbit.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2016-08-23 21:35:30 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
I'm not sure I see the point of this. The Big Four aren't likely to be trying anything of the sort anytime soon, and even if they were, they have shown that they weren't, aren't, and won't be interested in looking to us for advice on anything.


Sadly (or maybe happily) most of the fancy-pants capsuleer stuff that we can do to a planet pales in comparison to parking a lot of ships around it and sending in an awful lot of South-Forge boys with heavy boots and rifles.

Most Corporations could waste a planetary ecosystem if left to their own devices, but taking and holding one whilst keeping it valuable is probably a task best left to the baseliners.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Slayer Liberator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-08-23 22:45:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Slayer Liberator
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
I'm not sure I see the point of this. The Big Four aren't likely to be trying anything of the sort anytime soon, and even if they were, they have shown that they weren't, aren't, and won't be interested in looking to us for advice on anything.


Sadly (or maybe happily) most of the fancy-pants capsuleer stuff that we can do to a planet pales in comparison to parking a lot of ships around it and sending in an awful lot of South-Forge boys with heavy boots and rifles.

Most Corporations could waste a planetary ecosystem if left to their own devices, but taking and holding one whilst keeping it valuable is probably a task best left to the baseliners.

Haven't cloned soldiers been doing just that in Molten Heth for awhile now?
Plus cloned soldiers are cheaper and you only need about 16 to take a district and the entire planet would cost less than a fully fit cruiser.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2016-08-24 00:37:59 UTC
Cloned soldiers are a very nice force multiplier. They probably beat out most any other kind of special forces trooper but they are hellaciously expensive and they're probably not so good at holding territory as they are at disrupting control of it and taking it.

My guess is that Cloned Soldiers will remain an important part of a Commander's arsenal for the foreseeable future - but they aren't going to be able to take a planet on their own and hold it against all comers.

They can probably disrupt a defending force pretty well, though. My guess is that they could also blunt a conventional offensive pretty nicely.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2016-08-24 01:12:02 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
I don't recall smartbombs having the range to hit the cities from orbit. Might as well launch surgical orbital bombardments on every defensive hardpoints then dump bombers, fighters and troopers on the city.

That or saturation orbital bombardment if you don't mind being labelled a war criminal.


Orbital bombardment is best done from smaller ships such as destroyers and frigates but it is a mistake to think that orbital bombardment alone is sufficient to change control of a planet from a hostile entity to yours. Especially if you want to keep any of the infrastructure or population intact. Something that LR heavy fighters excel at is it precise strikes against hardened ground targets. A squadron of them in atmosphere is worth three destroyers in orbit and is far more capable at directing their own strikes than a destroyer that often requires a spotter.

If you smartbomb a city you have to position your ship directly over it, in atmo. Another reason why a Supercarrier is far better at it than a Titan, they have less mass to move, are nearly as difficult to down with ground based anti-orbit weaponry, are better able to defend themselves against in-atmo strikes, and the key reason is they are far less vulnerable to high-orbit > low-orbit attack. The range and power of the fighter screen is unmatched when it comes to buying time for the Supercapital to ascend out of atmosphere and leave the gravity well should it be ambushed. It is also does not lose much effectiveness by being at extreme low altitude and fighting a battle in orbit.


I never did say that orbital bombardments solve everything, only that they neutralise hardened targets or at least soften them enough for the footsloggers to take it.

I had always treated orbital bombardments as glorified artillery.

However, in-atmo? I believe that a Supercarrier isn't designed to stay anywhere close to a planet's atmosphere. The thrusters of our starships aren't designed for operating within a gravity well. I recall the reports of a Revelation over Pike's Landing, Amamake, crashing right into the planet because a Drake was able to shift her orbit into in-atmo with well-timed volley strikes. Revelation being so close to the planet in order to launch orbital bombardment without a spotter.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Slayer Liberator
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-08-24 16:43:26 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Cloned soldiers are a very nice force multiplier. They probably beat out most any other kind of special forces trooper but they are hellaciously expensive and they're probably not so good at holding territory as they are at disrupting control of it and taking it.

My guess is that Cloned Soldiers will remain an important part of a Commander's arsenal for the foreseeable future - but they aren't going to be able to take a planet on their own and hold it against all comers.

They can probably disrupt a defending force pretty well, though. My guess is that they could also blunt a conventional offensive pretty nicely.

Also Cloned Soldiers all have personal warbarges they can direct orbital bombardment from and when I was working for a non-empire affiliated corporation(Planetary Response Organization) I never encountered anything living on the planets we fought over except other Cloned Soldiers my guess is that most civilians were evacuated to avoid collateral damage caused by Orbital bombardment or just getting in the way of the rails,plasma,projectiles, etc. Of Cloned Soldiers
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2016-08-24 17:19:28 UTC
Yeah, they don't let Cloned Soldiers play in areas that are inhabited - good for taking out military outposts or isolated research stations but not so good at taking and holding a city.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

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