EVE General Discussion

No, actually the opposite - they are not easily baited, in general - but it does mean they are well aware of our very limited ability to escalate (we aren't blue to anybody, so no batphones for us).

There are some good fights, sometimes - but usually, just the n+1 apex blob that makes it pointless and not entertaining for us to fight them.

Several posts which were in violation of the forum rules have been removed.

Please stay on topic, polite and constructive. Thank you!

Sorry, I'm a bit late to the party, but we did grok some numbers with the data that is available to us. Of course, we're no CCP Quant, and it's limited but here's the basis for the back of the envelope calculus:

- we do major pvp events every 6 weeks or so, and daily pvp events that aren't "organized". The killboard is fed by the players, not any API key (mostly)
- we "monitor" the channels by looking retroactively at the logs

Keep that in mind when I unfold the reasoning, because it means we have holes in our coverage and therefore in our data.

- over the last 8 years of CAS Combat Day, our main event, we've had 5995 unique pilots participating (as of May 2016)
- of these 5995 pilots, I look through the EVE API which of them have joined a player corp after a kill they participated in on our killboard (active choice, not our "responsibility" anymore ;) )
- of these 5995 pilots, I look through zkill who had a kill or a loss at least 12 weeks after a participation in a kill with us (still active and in space 12 weeks later)
- of these 5995 pilots, I look through people who are connected 23/7's logs to see if they have spoken in CAS corp chat at least 12 weeks after a kill with us

and the number of pilots who, based on those criteria, were still active 12 weeks after an event with us is 43%.

Now remember, this is highly PvP focused, and we have TONS of players who lurk in CAS corp chat and do exclusively mining, incursions, etc, with our relevant CAS SIGs.

For kicks, we also did a back of the envelop stat of cas corp chat, and have counted the proportion of people who speak at least twice, and out of 61128 characters saying something in corp, 15587 speak only once, and we have a 42% "engagement" rate, as described in the pvp calculus above.

Of course, we realize the data is probably heavily biased (we miss people who never say a word in corp chat, for instance), but if they do say something in corp, in almost half the case they are still in the game 12 weeks later in a verifiable manner.

(sorry, I like to split posts so that it's easier to respond to specific points)

I've been in CAS for a while. Some of our veterans are in CAS since the inception of the game. In the past couple of years, because I'm a sucker and believe in the ideal, I found myself in charge of organizing stuff.

That was the disclaimer for the "you're biased" strawman argument. Yes I am.

Something you have to remember about CAS, but also every other NPC corp, is that we have no power of coercion or selection. If one of our members stirs trouble or spout nonsense, we have no way of expelling them.

As a group, we kind of decided to embrace the whole anarchy thing from the get go. No one is in charge but the person who decides to organize an event, a group, or a discussion. And even then, there are limitations to the power that person holds.

For instance a CCD (newcomer pew pew in space), we have stashed hundreds of replacement ships in a dozen stations. That costs ISK. That takes time to move these things around. And that comes on top of taking 60 new people and trying to get them to learn fleet things like moving together and shooting at one particular target rather than the closest to them. ASK any other NPSI group how hard it is.

All of this is currently managed by a handful of people, and financed by donations. We do NOT have an alliance tax that finances those things. Everything is volunteered. And yet, 8 years later, we still get 60-100 people in those events.

Sure, it's not huge compared to some big space battles, but convincing new people every month to trust us to show them a decent time AND teach them the ropes of null sec ain't no small endeavor.

Now, I saw posts outlining the fact that we encourage people not to leave CAS, and that we have no idea how the game is "really" played because we never left the shelter of the NPC corp.

- To the first point, this is not true. Most people who believe in the CAS ideal will stay in the corp, that's for sure. You'll see in many people's bios that they aren't looking for recruitment. But it's a side effect of our unofficial motto that we try to make a reality:

try before you buy.

We provide as many insights as we can relevant to all the activities you can do in EVE. That's it, no more, no less.

New players ask me all the time why I didn't leave CAS. My answer is simple:
First you find people you like flying with and then (and ONLY then), you join their group. Turns out, the people I like flying with are in CAS. But that doesn't mean player corps can't be more suited to other people.
I actually believe a small fraction should (and will) stay in CAS: the people who enjoy having no strings attached whatsoever and can occupy themselves when no content is provided. For people who want or need structure and clearly defined objectives, player corps is the way to go.
But in order to want or need structure and defined objectives, you need to have at least an idea that *this* structure and *these* objectives are compatible with how you get enjoyment. And I believe that's what we try to do... provide a basis to make you EVE choices knowingly.

- Since we're on the topic of player corps, let's address the second point. As someone said, we do have an alliance, which a player corp can join. It's fairly rudderless and exists solely for the purpose of flying in the AT, but if a new player and 4 of their friends want to try out banding together in a corp with the same kind of anarchistic view, they can. We do not impose ANYTHING on them. Sure, if one corp gets wardecced, we all get wardecced, but that's the cost of doing business. Besides, most of the time, when those corps get serious about their corp business, they tend to leave the alliance.

However, CAS holds a LOT of alts (and spais), who sometimes get dragged in a discussion and provide their input on what corp life in a "real" alliance is like. Some of our alumni who "went up in the world" are still on friendly terms with us (even if they kill our newblets) and will happily share their experiences.

It's not a matter of what's the "right" way of playing eve, because I don't think there is one. It's about providing a way for people to experience a lot of things before they commit to something they might regret a few days/weeks later. Going toe to toe with big alliances with a group of people who mine, explore, trade 99% of their time during a 10h event, and then decide if that's something they want to do more, THAT's what we are about. Could we do it better? probably. Could we do it outside of an NPC corp? no. By the time we get to the players who have already joined 3 corps and are looking for something new, most of the time they have a restrictive idea of what the "right" way of playing eve is.

Oh and of course, the hit and runners, more often than not, are just alts who exist in CAS for a handful of hours.