Ships & Modules

Seconding Tsukino on this; kitchen sink is horrific, know that you can bring "******" ships and yet have synergies and consistency.

Also it's better to have a consistent engagement range and DPS type rather than a rainbow of weird weapon systems that turn a focused fire into a spaghetti laser show.

Try RLML caracals, a tackler, and possibly some cheap ewar (celestis / bellicose). A doctrine is better for an aspiring FC, as well as for a bunch of guys with various levels of game mechs knowledge.

All kitchen sinks don't die repeatedly. That's a load of crap.
A competent group of pilots, in ships they fly well, can be just as effective as a doctrine fleet.
You can still bring Logi, E-war, recons and what have you to do those jobs, but it's NOT a requirement to have fun.
Most kitchen sink fleets fly till they die. They take any and all fights, and they don't run away so they can preserve a kill board ratio.
It's a different mindset.


The problem with doctrines, is they make the fleet members feel like sheeple. Train this! Fly this! Fit like this! Shut up on comms!
It's not all that much fun for most people.
The reason it works, is an FC can herd his sheep easier, but it doesn't necessarily make them better pilots. It ruins the game for many of them.




Every new FC is going to lose fights. Most won't be good until they fly in a hundred or more fights.
Experienced fighters is what turns fights. Get your guys out there shooting and flying.
10 experienced pilots will beat 15 sheeple every day.

Guess how the elite pvp guys learned to fly good.

Hint: Not by flying a Doctrine Caracal pressing F1 on broadcasted targets, orbitting their Anchor at 2500.

I've pvp'd doctrineless my whole eve career. I don't think I've done all that bad. A player flying a ship that he likes to fly and fies well will always be better than the same pilot flying some doctrine ship he was shoehorned into and doesn't enjoy flying.

That being said....

Kitchen sink is relative. Here's how it works in my corp:

1. Be it pve or pvp fits, we're all in corp together and spend a lot of time discussing our fits and everyone elses. They get worked and reworked almost constantly. The good fits get passed around and maybe saved in corp fittings and the bad ones get helped until they can make muster.

2. We have no doctrines, but we do have a general requirements for each fleet we go with. An example of that would be that if we call for an armor fleet w/ no logi then cap stability needs to be considered for the fit you're bringing. If an armor fleet is called and you bring a curse then cap stability is still important (oneiros logi) or not as important (guardians that can hand out some cap as needed). Knowing the difference and knowing that you have to speak up and let the logi pilots and the FC both know you're in a cap fragile curse fit before you head out to fight are both important.

3. Our pilots need to understand what each kitchen sink requires. Again, armor or shield, logi supported or not. We may even ask for local rep ships and not even care about shield or armor with the understanding that each man on that particular fight is responsible for his own survival.


If you look closely at who is saying what some things will become evident. Executive Outcomes is a big fat poorly staffed sov null outfit. The don't have the luxury of allowing all X-thousand of their members discuss fits - one reason being their sheer numbers - 500 guys can't talk about a caracal fit at the same time. Small gang groups lean toward the kitchen sink for reasons I've mentioned above.

So, the first fitting choice you have is what type of fleets you want to fly in. You make that choice at the corp join window, not the fitting window. If you want to be told what to train, be handed a ship, told where to warp, when to warp, who to anchor up on, who to shoot, when to reload and much much more - then Executive Outcomes (or any other such very large outfit) is the place for you. If you want to do small gang and hot drop shenanigans and the occasional large scale fight, there are some pretty awesome LS corps I can send you towards. If you want to shoot defenseless noobs on the Jita undock, there is a this for that also. Big picture, who you join has the most influence on what and how you fly. That's the first choice.

Once that decision is in the rear view mirror and you settle in with your mates, then all this discussion applies. AND the group you're flying with will dictate if you end up F1ing caracals at max tidi while elite pilots wait to see if the aeon they attacked 15 minutes ago died or warped off or whatever or if you're in an equally boring brick t3 armor gang with 6 guardians, 2 link boats and 6 jamgus supporting you or you're flying in a nirvana kitchen sink fleet that fits together but allows for personally creativity and style.

In conclusion. Listen to these boobs as a source of input and assign your own value amounts to what they say. Just because some know it all stooge has been in a SOV null F1 monkey fleet his whole life doesn't mean that's the correct way to fly in all cases. Eve gives you room to find and perfect your own sense of style and elite pvp.

Do you think 2 sliepnirs, 1 cerb, 3 cyclones, 1 malediction, 1 drake and a bifrost is a kitchen sink fleet? In some cases it is and in others it isn't. Not all brains are big enough to realize that.

i've woken up at this last words!
may be worth to copypasta them at the start of your post

jk

good suggestion btw!

generally when you're talking about damage it's better to deal with effective hp rather than try and figure out resists and how it affects your raw hp.

1100 alpha is 1100 alpha, the ehp you have against such an alpha however is the thing you need to calculate.

That's not true in the slightest, three main strengths of alpha:

1. You don't give time for logi to lock and rep
2. You don't give the target the time to cycle local reps (especially true against armour)
3. You remove opposing ships faster, so if targeting dps they will have less dps to reply to you

And knowing exactly what your fleet are flying contributes greatly to being able to assess a situation, hence doctrines ;)

Why not? Tackle DPS and ewar.

I'm not sure what you are getting at.... Be careful about what???