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We want to help ccp bring more players into eve!

First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#21 - 2016-08-15 15:30:39 UTC
Caco De'mon wrote:
embrel wrote:
Or make space more "dynamic" (systems appearing and disappearing in order to create blank fields on the map)



I think this is an important point. I the last few years, the "infinite sandbox" type game has really taken-off with gaming worlds too big for one person to ever explore in their own lifetime. The range from Dwarf Fortress to No Man's Sky and everything in between.

I think a real disservice to EVE itself is that the universe is so limited and almost everything has been Wiki'ed already. How many new players want to explore something new that a quick Google search will you all you need to know.

Same goes for mission running...I am stunned at just how canned they are...Select mission, look at title of mission, Google mission, collect ISK.

I'm not an old-timer by any stretch but I do remember how EVE was whispered about way back when...now, the innovative and groundbreaking thing that it was just isn't anymore....

More randomness...bigger....more freedom...


People don't use the space New Eden has, it doesn't need more.

As for the randomization stuff, people have always claimed they want that, but in reality, they don't. If you make missions random affairs, people will just omni tank their ships and use ships with selectable damage types (ie good by hybrids and lasers for missions, nothing but drones missiles and projectiles for pve).

It would me LESS variety, less choice, because if you don't know whats coming you tank for everything. And tanking for everything means less income which means nothing more than even longer lines for high sec incursions. Look at all the "interesting new" PVE CCP has introduced to the game since 2009 (incursions, drifters, sleepers, epic arcs etc etc) and yet most people who do pve are still killing npcs in complexes, missions and anomalies from the 2003-2005 era.

There is a reason for that, people claim they want fresh and new but in reality they want comfortable and predictable. CCP wasting time on randomized PVE would be a Walmart like waste.
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#22 - 2016-08-15 15:33:04 UTC
Since Code was brought up... I am not defending code but CCP has stated that players that get ganked in their first15 days are LESS likely to quit than those that dont.

The problem with Eve's player retention is:
1) Its unlike any other game people have played. It is harder as a newb than it is after a year, 5 years, 10 years.
2) Unlike other games, their is no direction in eve. You are responsible for your own entertainment instead of the game providing content for you.
3) Lack of rewards when you are new... its a harsh transition from other games.
4) The sub fee puts a lot of people off. For some reason they think its ridiculous to have to pay $15 to have a full access to a game but not ridiculous that in a F2P game that the only way to compete is to spend stupid amounts of money. And if you dont you are just a farm for those that do. Really makes me worry about this newer generation and their logic.

CCP has improved the new player experience from when i was a noob. Its not enough though for the current market. What can players do to help retain players? join the rookie help channel and help new players. I find helping new players in rookie help is like giving a puppy a piece of cheese. You are now best friends from their perspective. You just increased the chances of them staying.

What can CCP do? Well i posted a thread on this actually a while back that addresses both giving them more time to learn eve( because 14 days isnt enough) while also teaching them about all the things you can do in eve...as opposed to enter warp, target a rat, dock, etc.

That thread is here
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#23 - 2016-08-15 15:40:08 UTC
Quote:
People don't use the space New Eden has, it doesn't need more.

But the point of this thread is to attract NEW players and saying "all that's to be discovered has been already so tough" is not exactly a great selling point for new players.


Quote:
As for the randomization stuff, people have always claimed they want that, but in reality, they don't.

Again, offering less than what is the current trend isn't going to win you NEW customers.


Quote:
It would me LESS variety, less choice, because if you don't know whats coming you tank for everything.

You're confusing variety for the the unknown. Fitting an omni-tank IMO is way more desirable than Wiki'ing a what-to-fit page. Remember, this is about NEW players and the wide-eyed "wow" factor of random and near infinite space...

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
Just let it happen
#24 - 2016-08-15 15:51:12 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
.........

hook them with excitement and adrenaline, but NOT with richness.
Richness creates apathy.


I don't like adrenaline. It leaves me feeling drained and depressed. What do you propose to keep people who are like me?

My guess is virtually every miner, mission runner, and high sec hugger is like me in not liking adrenaline. Look at their play style: Its all geared to avoid situations that trigger adrenaline, as are their comments on this forum. I stayed because I like space and science fiction, and at the time I joined, there were no other space MMOs out there that ran on a Mac.

What do you propose that we, as a community, do to keep players who do not like adrenaline?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
#25 - 2016-08-15 16:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
Jenn aSide wrote:
Caco De'mon wrote:
embrel wrote:
Or make space more "dynamic" (systems appearing and disappearing in order to create blank fields on the map)



I think this is an important point. I the last few years, the "infinite sandbox" type game has really taken-off with gaming worlds too big for one person to ever explore in their own lifetime. The range from Dwarf Fortress to No Man's Sky and everything in between.

I think a real disservice to EVE itself is that the universe is so limited and almost everything has been Wiki'ed already. How many new players want to explore something new that a quick Google search will you all you need to know.

Same goes for mission running...I am stunned at just how canned they are...Select mission, look at title of mission, Google mission, collect ISK.

I'm not an old-timer by any stretch but I do remember how EVE was whispered about way back when...now, the innovative and groundbreaking thing that it was just isn't anymore....

More randomness...bigger....more freedom...


People don't use the space New Eden has, it doesn't need more.

As for the randomization stuff, people have always claimed they want that, but in reality, they don't. If you make missions random affairs, people will just omni tank their ships and use ships with selectable damage types (ie good by hybrids and lasers for missions, nothing but drones missiles and projectiles for pve).

It would me LESS variety, less choice, because if you don't know whats coming you tank for everything. And tanking for everything means less income which means nothing more than even longer lines for high sec incursions. Look at all the "interesting new" PVE CCP has introduced to the game since 2009 (incursions, drifters, sleepers, epic arcs etc etc) and yet most people who do pve are still killing npcs in complexes, missions and anomalies from the 2003-2005 era.

There is a reason for that, people claim they want fresh and new but in reality they want comfortable and predictable. CCP wasting time on randomized PVE would be a Walmart like waste.


People dont use the space we have because:
1) CCP refuses to kick people out of high sec and continues to let it be carebear land rather than newbie land.
2)Even though we have system upgrades now. They are still limited by a static sec status. So people still prefer nice pocket systems with a low truesec.

High sec needs to be greatly shrunk down and turned into low sec/null. the rewards for high need to either be lowered or the rewards for low/null increased to make it more appealing to leave high. I think new systems should be added but not the "here is 2500 systems, enjoy!" method. Rather, players have to find new systems, set up star gates, and basically make them part of known space. And it would be a low rate with maybe 2-4 systems being available to find at any one time and no new ones spawning until those systems reached a certain point in being added to known space, such as having gates and sov. This way new systems are added but very slowly over time.

CCP failed with new content. And the players are partly to blame. Players said they want something more challenging. What they meant was they wanted more variety and less predictability. CCP took this literally and started tossing us super rats which a majority of players are not fans of.

What players really want is for CCP to stop mirroring things and using templates with different rats and start making original content. For example, when comparing faction to faction pretty much all exploration sites and anoms are the same. All combat sites are similar. Running sites in angel, sansha, guristas, or serpentis space is pretty much the same. Only thing that changes is the rats and what drops. Its a boring grind and changing faction doesnt really change much.

Instead sites and anoms should be more dynamic in nature. Sites for example should be more like an "arc" rather than a one time run and move on. Sites should have various escalations and instead of having a linear escalation path have a more dynamic escalation path. So you may get one of 20 escalations. And this goes for combat data and relic.

Anoms should be similar. The type of site such as "hub" should give you a general idea of the difficulty but the spawns should be RNG between x and y of certain classes of ships. These should also have escalations.

Escalations should be more in the same system or the same constellation than having to go 10 jumps out. CCP was all about "we want to make it so its unnecessary for an average alliance to own a large amount of space" But they want you to jump all over eve to do escalations. So in null the chances of your escalation being in enemy territory especially with the fozzie sov mechanics is quite high, since null is more fractured now.

People want more variety and less template stuff, most dont want harder, though harder versions should always be an option.
Serene Repose
#26 - 2016-08-16 00:43:25 UTC
Max Fubarticus wrote:
The community reinforces that by knocking over other players sandcastles and creating a wide variety of content. Not hard really.
Uh...right. I was going to say this was logic Trump would love.
Then, I saw this....
Max Fubarticus wrote:
You could community organize, write petitions, threaten CCP with a boycott, create snappy slogans like "Noob Lives Matter" and march around with signs, riot and loot,create safe spaces,in-game pop up dialogue box with trigger warnings, and last but not least...a single toilet open to all regardless of the pronoun that precedes you characters name.
It's probably wise to leave the US's political dysfunction at the door.

Meanwhile, back to discussing the issue at hand...instead of yucking about those "inferior" to "us"....

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Serene Repose
#27 - 2016-08-16 00:46:53 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
People dont use the space we have because:
1) CCP refuses to kick people out of high sec and continues to let it be carebear land rather than newbie land.
2)Even though we have system upgrades now. They are still limited by a static sec status. So people still prefer nice pocket systems with a low truesec....
Hard to follow this steamy pile with something uh...useful.

Want more players? Stop kissing the hinies of the psychos. Normal people with money like the idea of not being mugged by those of ill-breeding and PLEX complexes. Or you can tailor it to those of this ilk, and live with the outcome. . . why change it?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Cockchaos
Doomheim
#28 - 2016-08-16 00:55:59 UTC
Change game mechanics so the EVE community can effectively fight the idiots who suicide gank new players using the autopilot function. When I say idiots, I mean CODE.
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#29 - 2016-08-16 00:59:16 UTC
Cockchaos wrote:
Change game mechanics so the EVE community can effectively fight the idiots who suicide gank new players using the autopilot function. When I say idiots, I mean CODE.



...and I bet you're an authority on idiots...

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
#30 - 2016-08-16 01:43:46 UTC
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
How can we as the community help ccp bring more players into the game?

Post your ideas here. Be direct so ccp can clearly see your ideas.

N


A wardec for every new corp?
Oh wait...Blink
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-08-16 01:53:38 UTC
My opinion is that Eve has so many mechanics unfriendly to newcomers that the whole game would need a revolution to attract newbies.

CCP will never do any revolution, changes are so little here and limited to single little aspects or to commercial things like skins so nothing radical will be done for sure.

My personal opinion only anyway....
Cockchaos
Doomheim
#32 - 2016-08-16 02:15:14 UTC
Caco De'mon wrote:
Cockchaos wrote:
Change game mechanics so the EVE community can effectively fight the idiots who suicide gank new players using the autopilot function. When I say idiots, I mean CODE.



...and I bet you're an authority on idiots...



Takes one to know one
ll Kuray ll
Assisted Homicide
#33 - 2016-08-16 02:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ll Kuray ll
More interesting ways to pvp. I hate the current state of this part of the game. It's dull and predictable. ECM and logi are killing the game.

ECM - including warp disrupters and scramblers. These modules just create horrible situations and horrible game play. You either give us the tools to make more informed decisions or do away with it. In today's game I'm not sure the "you either commit or your don't commit is a big enough reason for disrupters and scramblers. I've argued before and managed to get a few positive responses towards tiercide disrupters and scramblers and infact the entire branch of eccm. Neuts and Noses are already tiercided with small medium and large modules, small being ineffective against bigger ships. Other modules should follow suit. Small ships shouldn't be able to lock bigger ships down unless they fit the equivalent sized large disrupter. ECM module should also be tiercided.

Logi should be treated like commands ships. a base of +1 rep in the high and +1 for every command processor in the mids. Logi should never be about being able to rep effectively out of range in relative safety and i'd love CCP to make the decision logi ships can not rep logi ships. You either use your utility slots to make repping more effective whilst losing tank and speed or you tank you logi but make repping less effective.

Some reasons why my friends gave up - In all honesty it comes down to what I said here -> dull predictable game play aided by out dated ECM mechanics and a stupid take on what a professional logi really is.

I'd be happy just by making things more tiercided so if i take my bs out you have to bring the appropriate tool for the job and not the knee jerk bring every man and dog to the party. I generally feel opportunities for people to have fun are missed due to "how many logi" or "How many ECCM ships" do they have.

One more point - i am well educated in good game design and I have to say the idea that people want to play in massive groups is somewhat of an old practice. There is plenty of research that tells you people want the small to solo gaming experience, it's not the 100 plus fleets that you are lead to believe via CCP's promo videos. I also think the K/D ratio KB's do the opposite of what they should do which is to provide a leaderboard. k/d ratios promote risk aversion.
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#34 - 2016-08-16 02:25:29 UTC
EVE is a PVP sandbox and I am betting that after a long day of work not everyone wants to be badgered, scammed and generally be harassed to death while trying to relax, also, why pay for someone else's content.
ll Kuray ll
Assisted Homicide
#35 - 2016-08-16 02:38:47 UTC
aldhura wrote:
EVE is a PVP sandbox and I am betting that after a long day of work not everyone wants to be badgered, scammed and generally be harassed to death while trying to relax, also, why pay for someone else's content.


I don't want to sound like the proverbially troll but what makes eve interesting is you aren't and should never be allowed to think you can relax and if someone wants to harass you that is part of the game.
Serene Repose
#36 - 2016-08-16 02:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
ll Kuray ll wrote:
aldhura wrote:
EVE is a PVP sandbox and I am betting that after a long day of work not everyone wants to be badgered, scammed and generally be harassed to death while trying to relax, also, why pay for someone else's content.


I don't want to sound like the proverbially troll but what makes eve interesting is you aren't and should never be allowed to think you can relax and if someone wants to harass you that is part of the game.
Makes it interesting to YOU. There are others in the world. Surprise!

Oh...this impossible to get stat - whatever% of those ganked within their first whatever days are less likely. Hogwash.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#37 - 2016-08-16 02:54:23 UTC
nothing is going to save this game or bring more players to it.. there's already too many jerks here..
this community has ran every player away.. and if its not the community that did it.. its CCP that did by listening to the wrong players which made the players leave.

this game is on life-support.. i fear the reviews once all the competition comes for it.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-08-16 02:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
My opinion is that Eve has so many mechanics unfriendly to newcomers that the whole game would need a revolution to attract newbies.

CCP will never do any revolution, changes are so little here and limited to single little aspects or to commercial things like skins so nothing radical will be done for sure.

My personal opinion only anyway....

I hope CCP don't revolutionise.

In the last couple of years CCP has devoted significant effort to understanding what motivates new players and to making it easier for them to get started.

It hasn't worked.

Not only hasn't it worked, it's also disenfranchised a lot of veteran players that were dedicated to the game and who've put a lot of money into the game over an extended period.

falling numbers are what we see as a result. Still no ability to raise the retention of new players and older players leaving in greater numbers.

Bring back the difficulties and reward for skill and time in the game. Stop eroding things like the effects of standings, make it so that exploration favours skill rather than skillpoints. Not everything has to be achievable on day 1 in the game.

The way the game is headed, where's the long term goals gone? Why stick around when I can buy and experience everything immediately? It's easy to move on quickly now since the game is losing depth in many areas.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Shakira Vessen
Tesla Aerospace Industries
#39 - 2016-08-16 03:13:14 UTC
1. Create a sequential story line with some lore in it about the boundaries of High, Low, Null & Wormhole life.
2. Get them familiar with the zones supplying them with the right ships and rewards for beginners.
3. Have them immune to all players whilst in the story line phases of the game per sec level and wormhole life. oh and yes they also not allowed to shoot at other players.
4. If they die in any of the sec areas they are to be transported back to a starting point and re-try again.
5. As you introduce them to each sec zone and womrhole life, have them learn some fundamentals of staying alive and what tools they need to use per zone to achieve that. Let alone tools they might need to use to do other activities. Show them what they can do in each zones be it from mining to killing npc's.

The benefits of training players and making them see whats going on around each security zone and wormholes opens their eyes to what path they might want to choose from an early stage.

You can create a separate zone for beginners altogether which has a High/Low/Null & Wormhole environment from the real EvE zones, this will eliminate spys doing intro runs to see real enemy operations in all parts of eve. This will protect them and get to fool around and make quick decisions about direction.

After so many years of playing the game. I was really dead scared of going into low sec alone. After so many years of playing i'm now wondering limitless. What do i wish made the transitions faster ??
1. Better Documentation
2. Not being reliant on friends on how things work.
3. What is Factional Warfare and why wasn't it in the introduction phase and what zones am i suppose to be careful of. Oh and yes if i do participate does it screw my standings ?? oh and yes what will i have to do to get them back again. Things like this are not detailed out in the game.

Microsoft got far with it's application because it was user friendly, no matter how many bugs it had it made things in life a bit easy aye. Like they say the bad comes with the good.

Given thousands of users who have experience it's up to us to make life easy for the newbies. We should make things better each year instead of leaving things hanging around. Revision and practice go a long way in life. Not sharpening your pencil and having a blunt one creates shabby text.
Serene Repose
#40 - 2016-08-16 04:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
A lot of (most of) these suggestions are reactionary in nature. They come from perceived problems with an eye toward circumventing or heading them off at the pass. The new player doesn't have any prior knowledge or experience, other than general knowledge about how computer games work from past experience.

A tutorial/intro just familiarizes a player with how to operate the game. These are the mechanics. This button shoots. This button ducks. Here's how you load. Here's how you fire. Here's your hands and feet. Here's your head. The game is over there. Get in there and play. It also, to belabor this point, familiarizes new players with how the interaction with NPCs is set up.

Sandbox. Sandbox. Okay. "Here's how you play?" This approach to the game is generally left to the interaction between players process. The linear story-line leads them into the map sequentially; more difficulty with the leveling process, etc. Quite soon the player gets the idea, along with what sort of questions to ask other players...this communication generally occurring in a global chat function.

Then, you have us. The tutorial/intro - here's the elementary mechanics, fine. Where we differ is - a.) trust no one - so no one is considered to be a reliable help. b.) never talk in local - ergo, no "global" chat. Sure, there's the over populated, chaotic help channel...as far as that goes.

Join a corp! Join a corp! I find this amusing whenever I read it, 'cause I've never been so isolated in a computer game communication-wise, as in EVE. People already in corporations they got into 'cause they knew someone, or were invited, just toss this advice around like; "inhale/exhale, join a corp!" New players find this not only less than helpful it also seems a bit on the strange side given the obvious circumstance a new player is sitting in...looking around...huh? Join what? To do it you have to talk to somebody. But, trust no one? Right. This makes sense. The foot is already heading for the door.

You may get shot down. That's one thing. You may be continually victimized? Quite something else. And, anyone saying that's a strong selling point is either mentally disturbed or lying through their teeth. Everyone pays money to have fun, finds themselves victimized habitually, and goes, "Wow. This is thrilling. I'm so glad I found this." Riiiiiight.

Sure, CCP could do a lot more about providing more organized information, and less eye candy conventions in Vegas adverts. Having a lot of the one, and hardly any of the other makes you look a bit...lacking in perspective, but also a bit on the money grubbing side....not only victimized by the players (with impunity and mouthy arrogance) but by the management, too. This looks like the deal of the century.

It very quickly turns from "do I like this game" to "do I really want to deal with people like this" in a way that is unsurpassed by many activities available to the public internet or not. So...your solutions. Your laundry lists...right. It could just be a matter of "so this is how we are...this is what we should expect to get." Want more? Change....yeah...could be.

At least, that's what they're saying about EVE on the internet...shhhh...it's a secret.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.