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We want to help ccp bring more players into eve!

First post
Author
The Leopardess
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#341 - 2016-09-15 13:05:47 UTC  |  Edited by: The Leopardess
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Raker Plaude wrote:
The Leopardess wrote:
PvP needs improvement, and it needs instanced RBG's like WoW. People should be able to Queue for Faction Warfare battles, anytime anywhere. Let us win prizes from our chosen factions, (and make it rewarding to be a loyalist) and expand it to include pirates or Alliances that achieve a certain membership threshold. No it's not "realistic" in that you don't have to jump 50 times to get back to FW space (who has time for that!?) but it would be ******* awesome, and it would appease the kind of instant gratifcation all PvP players crave and expect.

You should respawn if you die in the instance, but you only get to keep your ship after leaving the instance IF you didn't die. If you die once you get to keep respawning, but you lose it at the end of the battlefield...This would promote revenue from credit card warriors like myself who make more money isk per hour irl than in game. :P


The downside to this is that people would complain it takes away from World PvP. It could if it was managed inproperly.

Surely this goes against everything that EVE is?!

The day eve becomes wow is the day I leave the game.



Eve and WoW have completely different playstyles, WoW is an arcade-style story driven RPG, Eve is a player-centric social strategy game with some PvP elements, (most uniquely the ability to feel what it's like to play a leader of any type and scope from petty Tyrant to Multinational CEO). Serious PvPers don't play Eve they play Call of Duty or Overwatch.

WoW is a huge game with so many facets but at its heart it is a very traditional arcade crawler similar to Sonic the Hedgehog or Metroid.

Eve can never be WoW, Eve Valkyrie has some of the elements of an arcade style game but Wow is a decade old and no one will ever catch them on content.

龴ↀ◡ↀ龴

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#342 - 2016-09-15 14:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
The Leopardess wrote:
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Raker Plaude wrote:
The Leopardess wrote:
PvP needs improvement, and it needs instanced RBG's like WoW. People should be able to Queue for Faction Warfare battles, anytime anywhere. Let us win prizes from our chosen factions, (and make it rewarding to be a loyalist) and expand it to include pirates or Alliances that achieve a certain membership threshold. No it's not "realistic" in that you don't have to jump 50 times to get back to FW space (who has time for that!?) but it would be ******* awesome, and it would appease the kind of instant gratifcation all PvP players crave and expect.

You should respawn if you die in the instance, but you only get to keep your ship after leaving the instance IF you didn't die. If you die once you get to keep respawning, but you lose it at the end of the battlefield...This would promote revenue from credit card warriors like myself who make more money isk per hour irl than in game. :P


The downside to this is that people would complain it takes away from World PvP. It could if it was managed inproperly.

Surely this goes against everything that EVE is?!

The day eve becomes wow is the day I leave the game.



Eve and WoW have completely different playstyles, WoW is an arcade-style story driven RPG, Eve is a player-centric social strategy game with some PvP elements, (most uniquely the ability to feel what it's like to play a leader of any type and scope from petty Tyrant to Multinational CEO). Serious PvPers don't play Eve they play Call of Duty or Overwatch.

WoW is a huge game with so many facets but at its heart it is a very traditional arcade crawler similar to Sonic the Hedgehog or Metroid.

Eve can never be WoW, Eve Valkyrie has some of the elements of an arcade style game but Wow is a decade old and no one will ever catch them on content.
Yes they are different beasts and for good reason, the main one being that as per CCP Solomon "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built"

Instances remove that cornerstone, because by their very nature they mean that there is zero risk of other people ruining your day in a way that you didn't expect.

If you want instances etc, go play another game that supports them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Tristan Valentina
Moira.
Villore Accords
#343 - 2016-09-15 15:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tristan Valentina
I cant remember what the game was called but it was in the PS4 Dust area, It was a board game that you could play. It would be amazing if EVE had something similar in it. A way to compete with other players that had very little riding on it. Low risk low reward, like Project Discovery. I know the rest of the web exists but it would be amazing to have something with an EVEcentric flair.

After trying to bring a few people into eve their biggest complaint was the downtime. As much as warping into combat puts your heart in your throat, EVE has a lot of downtime.

Tristan Valentina
Hilti Enaka
Assisted Homicide
#344 - 2016-10-05 11:51:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:

If those guys increase retention, it's a testament to how boring the game is playing solo


You mean a game built from the ground up to be played with and against other people is boring when you take away the "other people" part?

WTF? How can that be? Next you'll be telling me that if I take both wheels off my bicycle I won't be able to ride it. Preposterous! Cool


You see this is why a little knowledge on gaming trends will help you form a better argument. Gaming trends tell you people don't want to play with or against hordes of other people. The trends tell you people want to play in groups of 5 - 10 people max and solo. People want specific roles and responsibilities within the gaming experiences. By my account CCP aren't taking any of this into account and keep pushing a game to be played in massive groups. a prime example of this is the typical hero bait whilst a fleet waits for a snag. This is why the game isn't engaging and isn't pulling players. Its dull and predictable.

Natural CloneKiller
G0P-ST0P
P I R A T
#345 - 2016-10-05 16:27:12 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:

If those guys increase retention, it's a testament to how boring the game is playing solo


You mean a game built from the ground up to be played with and against other people is boring when you take away the "other people" part?

WTF? How can that be? Next you'll be telling me that if I take both wheels off my bicycle I won't be able to ride it. Preposterous! Cool


You see this is why a little knowledge on gaming trends will help you form a better argument. Gaming trends tell you people don't want to play with or against hordes of other people. The trends tell you people want to play in groups of 5 - 10 people max and solo. People want specific roles and responsibilities within the gaming experiences. By my account CCP aren't taking any of this into account and keep pushing a game to be played in massive groups. a prime example of this is the typical hero bait whilst a fleet waits for a snag. This is why the game isn't engaging and isn't pulling players. Its dull and predictable.


I think alot of the player base would disagree from the perspective that this is some of the core fundamentals of eve online. I agree people might like roles and responsibilities linked to structure. However we need to balance that with player driven content that is central to the eve online experience.

For the new player we do need to do more to help them into this complex world.

For me, I started this post because I think we as the player base could do more to help ccp bring new players into the game. When they are here that is in part a different but important matter.
Aurelius Oshidashi
Crystalline.
Fraternity.
#346 - 2016-10-05 16:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Oshidashi
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:

If those guys increase retention, it's a testament to how boring the game is playing solo


You mean a game built from the ground up to be played with and against other people is boring when you take away the "other people" part?

WTF? How can that be? Next you'll be telling me that if I take both wheels off my bicycle I won't be able to ride it. Preposterous! Cool


You see this is why a little knowledge on gaming trends will help you form a better argument. Gaming trends tell you people don't want to play with or against hordes of other people. The trends tell you people want to play in groups of 5 - 10 people max and solo. People want specific roles and responsibilities within the gaming experiences. By my account CCP aren't taking any of this into account and keep pushing a game to be played in massive groups. a prime example of this is the typical hero bait whilst a fleet waits for a snag. This is why the game isn't engaging and isn't pulling players. Its dull and predictable.



Eve is dull? Dude, eve is such a challenge compared to almost every other game I could only call it boring if I choose to play eve in a boring way. You sound like folks I had in surf and music classes that totally failed at progressing and then decided surfing and playing guitar was just dull.
Hilti Enaka
Assisted Homicide
#347 - 2016-10-05 17:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hilti Enaka
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:

If those guys increase retention, it's a testament to how boring the game is playing solo


You mean a game built from the ground up to be played with and against other people is boring when you take away the "other people" part?

WTF? How can that be? Next you'll be telling me that if I take both wheels off my bicycle I won't be able to ride it. Preposterous! Cool


You see this is why a little knowledge on gaming trends will help you form a better argument. Gaming trends tell you people don't want to play with or against hordes of other people. The trends tell you people want to play in groups of 5 - 10 people max and solo. People want specific roles and responsibilities within the gaming experiences. By my account CCP aren't taking any of this into account and keep pushing a game to be played in massive groups. a prime example of this is the typical hero bait whilst a fleet waits for a snag. This is why the game isn't engaging and isn't pulling players. Its dull and predictable.


I think alot of the player base would disagree from the perspective that this is some of the core fundamentals of eve online. I agree people might like roles and responsibilities linked to structure. However we need to balance that with player driven content that is central to the eve online experience.

For the new player we do need to do more to help them into this complex world.

For me, I started this post because I think we as the player base could do more to help ccp bring new players into the game. When they are here that is in part a different but important matter.


New players are expensive to find more should be done to keep those who are engaged, engaged within the game. As I looked to who you are, your playing style just should not exist. Blanket war decing every entity there is and sitting on gates in hubs does not provide engagement. People aren't looking for games to be fair they want it to be engaging and you can guarantee some of the mechanics move us away, far away from that. My level 5 maxed skills mean **** all against 5 F2P noobs.
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#348 - 2016-10-05 20:47:46 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
This thread, especially the last couple pages, is the perfect example of what's wrong with the game. It's that people don't know what a game is.

look at all these posts talking about how unfriendly people are, about how the community chases people off etc. That's the same thinking CCP has displayed for the last 5 years. And it's wrong.

Just like no one wants to see a movie where everyone gets along, a game that tries to ease people in and protect them when they get in is doomed to fail.. Like movies, Games are about conflict and then being able to take pride and enjoyment out of defeating those conflicts.

The most conflicting thing in EVE is people. When EVE had fewer restrictions on the folks who screw with people, the game grew, and that was no coincidence.

CCP has killed a lot of conflict in the game. They've made it easier for people to get comfortable. They've come down hard on the people (you can call them ass-hats if you like) who made the game interesting to play, because you weren't just playing against npcs, you were avoiding ass-hats while playing against people. it made getting the loot MEAN SOMETHING, now it's just handed to you, just like in real life.

A game is entertainment, we are all here to be entertained. You don't entertain people by being nice to them, you entertain them by kicking their butts and generating emotion, in this case the emotion of "ouch, now Im gonna kick your butt back" Just like well meaning parents who shield their kids from conflict as they grow up (then wonder why those kids have zero real world coping skills as adults and thus never leave home), CCP and too many well meaning folks have tired to wrap new players in wool.

It doesn't work, if you want to help a new player, don't coddle him, don't protect him, kick his ass. You won't just be having fun, you will be helping him stay in the game and helping keep EVE alive.
Wow, everything in this post is just wrong.
Along with CCP's narrow-minded vision of HTFU, Wrecking Machine, Killing Is Just A Means, Keep Clicking hubris pertaining to the game, the type of mindset portrayed here is definitely a contributing factor to why Eve has an exponential decline of player numbers over the past few years.

DMC


I don't think you know what the word 'exponential' means, DMC.

o/ hi everybody! This thread has also always been about the New Order.
Sire Sparrow
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#349 - 2016-10-06 16:34:25 UTC
The should implement some systems where there is no pvp, no can stealing etc. for noobs and only toons that are younger than X can enter this system and ask ISD to police local. It needs to be clear to the player that they have a safe haven to mine, trade, pve in and training for them in how to deal with the greifers. Let them have access to the system/region for 2 months while they train up and get to grips with the game. Magic would happen, old school - using Miner I to mine with and frigs. They can co-operate and form gangs to do PvE or mine and form bonds and corps.
Unless you cotton wrap up some players at the start they will get frustrated and leave, it's to harsh for a lot of players at the start; not all, but some.
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#350 - 2016-10-06 16:48:19 UTC
There is already somehow a thing like that; with the starter systems, like Sehmy.
Seyton Manus
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#351 - 2016-10-06 16:51:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Seyton Manus
As a new player let me just throw in my 2 cents. I have a lot of problems with EvE but I think this is a suggestion that is feasibly possible for CCP to do without hurting the current players. And please read the whole thing I realize its a wall of text but I wanted to be clear.

I would like the ability to find and join other new players to do content with in a quick fashion. To put it simplistically a 'looking for group' function that doesn't put you into a corp but a more temporary group.

Old WoW analogy time; when you first start out you are often thrown into situations where you have to group up with new players. Hogger is probably one of the best examples of this; hes an elite enemy part of a quest you cant complete at the level you get the quest. You have to group up with randoms if you want to take him down and you can find them easily because surprise surprise they are all standing around Hogger waiting for others to invite them into a party. Its a nice feature because it forces you to interact with people of your own level and experience to take down content.

Could I go join one of the many educational corps in EvE and have them give me ISK, books and come with me on content and help take it down? Sure, but thats boring. I dont want to play with people who know what they are doing, I want to fail with people who are like me. I want to to feel like we're figuring it out on our own, making our own progress, without being tied down so early on into a corp community I may not want to interact with. Now I could go look for a corp thats casual, or even set up my own corp but thats a lot of work for what is going to be a short lived adventure. The freedom to jump around different content early on with people is a good way to feel a part of a community without burdening someone with over-commitment.

It should go without saying that finding that content for these groups should be easier too. Perhaps they could have their own system and station, a place that gives a wide variety of jobs in different areas of careers, difficulty and space. If a group want to just test the waters in a high sec exploration job that has some light combat, or go in the deep end of a mission that forces them to hunt down a random player in nul. And it should have a wide choice in difficulty options, dont hold peoples hands on this. The point isnt to hold their hand through a series of missions with multiple people. Its about letting people get together in an accessible fashion even if that ends up with them all dead, podded and crying. I realize EvE has missions like this for players to do right now but I dont think its accessible for new people.

I really hope accessibility is not a dirty word around here. I dont mean make the game easy, I just mean make it convenient. All the same risks of doing a mission in nul with other people exist, its just I found those people without any hassle.

In a way its like a syndicate. A group of people coming together to do a certain objective before parting ways. Not so subtle name drop for what they should call it by the way.

So thats my 2 cents. Proceed with calling me a noob and trash talking me off the forum.
Neftaran
Dread Guard
#352 - 2016-10-07 01:32:14 UTC
As a 'community' you are really not going to be able to do much if anything to increase eve's customer base and honestly it's not your job to grow their business, it's theirs. CCP just fails at digital marketing, It's just that simple. I have a few accounts on old emails from ages ago. I have not received a single email from CCP for over 6 years that even attempts to re-connect with me as a previous customer nor have I received an email on my main account. CCP simply fails at marketing themselves and adapting to the needs / wants of their market. I do applaud your wanting to make a difference, but unfortunately it's quite limited what you or a community can do in general to help them in this manner.
Gealbhan
Temeraria Praedonum
Catastrophic Diplomacy
#353 - 2016-10-07 01:36:15 UTC
The ability to access youtube and social media from inside the captains quarters? Arrow
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#354 - 2016-10-07 01:43:32 UTC
Gealbhan wrote:
The ability to access youtube and social media from inside the captains quarters? Arrow

Did you even read the OP?

How do we do this as a community?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Soloman Jackson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#355 - 2016-10-07 02:15:42 UTC
I think it's more of a retention problem than a finding new players problem.

When I first started it was the overwhelming size of the game and the "sandbox" effect that had my head spinning. There is no real direction once someone finds their wheels spinning.

I think one way to retain and possibly get new players (By word of mouth) is to provide something to do while finding out what to do next. The Scope event was nice as it provided varying thing to do, both combat and mining. They could expand on that to include industrial and market missions as well to give new players a taste of what EvE has to offer as well as giving established players something spin their wheels to.

Instead of racing to gather points for skill boosters they could offer something like LP and a store to buy from with gathered points. Or something to that effect.

Eve is a great game to play if you let it sink its claws into you.. We just need to find a way to convince the newbros to expose their flesh.

“The cold stars spun to the ancient rhythm, the august march of an everlasting symphony. They are old, the stars, and their memory is long.” -Rick Yancey

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#356 - 2016-10-07 04:52:33 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:

If those guys increase retention, it's a testament to how boring the game is playing solo


You mean a game built from the ground up to be played with and against other people is boring when you take away the "other people" part?

WTF? How can that be? Next you'll be telling me that if I take both wheels off my bicycle I won't be able to ride it. Preposterous! Cool


You see this is why a little knowledge on gaming trends will help you form a better argument. Gaming trends tell you people don't want to play with or against hordes of other people. The trends tell you people want to play in groups of 5 - 10 people max and solo. People want specific roles and responsibilities within the gaming experiences. By my account CCP aren't taking any of this into account and keep pushing a game to be played in massive groups. a prime example of this is the typical hero bait whilst a fleet waits for a snag. This is why the game isn't engaging and isn't pulling players. Its dull and predictable.



The trend shows countless MMOs that cater to the PVE crowd lose the bulk of their playerbase a matter of months after they launch, EVE is the only MMO that saw sustained growth year after year. Until CCP decided to heavily nerf the PvP side and we saw a decline in subs.

Pindleton Severasse
Glorious Pew
Endless Mercenaries
#357 - 2016-10-07 04:56:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pindleton Severasse
Ramona Taggart wrote:
EVE Online should not be a game that is difficult to learn and hard to master. It should just be the latter.

  1. Updating the tutorial/opportunity system so that it better explains game systems and segues smoothly into the career agents would be beneficial. The tutorial can also be improved with voice acting and videos that can really help new users navigate the many in-game windows (like the market), and even a potential story (perhaps based on the NPC corp you start in).

  2. Prompt the user with a choice of game activity (e.g. I want to do "X") and they are then given specific details on how to get started. This could be combined with the career agents mechanic, as they really only teach you how to do the very basics.

  3. New player explanations of ship tiers. For instance, you start in a Frigate, but what are recommended ship types to progress into?

  4. Better explanation of ship fits. What are logical fits for X activity? What skills can help me better fit my ship? Is it okay if I use multiple repairers or different types of guns?

  5. Better marketing when it comes to the more positive side of the game (think PVE or social activities). What do people generally say when you ask them about EVE Online? "Oh that's the spreadsheets in space game?" or "That's the game where everyone just kills/backstabs/scams each other like I read in the news posts (or videos like "I Was There")". I know EVE Online is a sandbox with the goal of joining corps, fighting interstellar wars, or claiming space real-estate, but what about marketing for being a manufacturer or trader? What about being a deep space explorer and unlocking secrets and loot from hidden areas of the universe? There's more to EVE than just ship explosions (although it is quite fun.)

It's easy for many of us to simply say, "Well, go to Google or check EVE-University" but having to do these extra steps just goes to show you that many of the most basic gameplay components are too nebulous with too little explanation. Not to mention new players won't know what EVE University is.


I think a sort of wizard that explain the differences between shield tanking, armor tanking, and speed tanking fits, as well as the pros and cons of different weapon systems would be helpful to newbies looking to jump into the pew pews.

Also I think if the game recommended fittings for the ships you were in (based on community submissions) it would be very helpful to new players.

That would be a good start at generating and keeping new player interest.
Pindleton Severasse
Glorious Pew
Endless Mercenaries
#358 - 2016-10-07 04:57:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Pindleton Severasse
Sorry, double post
Rias Bane
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#359 - 2016-10-07 08:52:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Rias Bane
Seyton ManusCould wrote:
I go join one of the many educational corps in EvE and have them give me ISK, books and come with me on content and help take it down? Sure, but that's boring. I don't want to play with people who know what they are doing, I want to fail with people who are like me. I want to to feel like we're figuring it out on our own, making our own progress, without being tied down so early on into a corp community I may not want to interact with. Now I could go look for a corp that's casual, or even set up my own corp but that's a lot of work for what is going to be a short lived adventure. The freedom to jump around different content early on with people is a good way to feel a part of a community without burdening someone with over-commitment.


I think you are kind of missing the point of Newbie alliances, it isn't about becoming an automaton for an experienced player using you to play vicariously through, it's about collecting people of a similar education and understanding level together so that they can learn from one another's successes and failures whilst being supported by a community that can help rationalise the complexities of eve in a supportive environment.

Yes many of them offer support in the form of starter packages but that doesn't mean you have to take advantage of that, want to graft for your own rewards? Do so!

I firmly believe that the newbro alliances are fundamental to early player retention, I think the point was made earlier that this thread in essence is discussing retention not acquisition and I think they were right in saying that and ultimately it is the direction I would have taken this thread because many players flirt with eve but are put off because of scale and the general lack of direction input. This is where the more experienced players need to step up.

Also a point was made by one poster that this is not our responsibility as players but that of CCP, altruism should never be discouraged and I would suggest that belligerence holds no place in a thread composed and maintained for the purpose of encouragement and positivity...you don't have to help...but for the love of Jove don't discourage those who do!
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#360 - 2016-10-07 16:20:06 UTC
Ramona Taggart wrote:
EVE Online should not be a game that is difficult to learn and hard to master. It should just be the latter.


That kind of thinking was THE disaster that happened to EVE. By trying to make the game "easy to learn, hard to master" CCP stripped a lot of the value of the game experience away. It was the difficulty of learning the game that led to the sense of accomplishment that in turn led to the sense of investment that emotionally ties people to an experience.

The whole idea that "if you just show people how to play, and give them room to learn, they will stay and flourish" isn't just wrong, it's dangerous. Groups like Goons were so successful because they threw new plays into the deep end on their 1st day and watched their clueless clawing turn into actual human ingenuity and learning. Invoking those natural human responses are hooks into a game like EVE, the 'ease them in' approach invokes boredom and quitting.

I honestly don't know why the above is a hard concept to understand by so many who post on this board, almost all of us started playing this game at a time when EVE said "here is a spaceship, **** you". We've all spent YEARS watching CCP try to make EVe "more accessible" and watching every effort not only fail, but ACCELERATE a decline.

I suspect it has something to do a feeling of false uniqueness, ie the people who continually advocate softening the new player experience in the hopes of retaining more new players tend to think "yea I stayed with EVE even though it was hard to learn and hard to master, but hey, I'm special, you have to dumb it down for those other people".